Electric Bicycles and Road Tax?

Eddiethehill

Folks,
I have searched the web and asked friends for info on the legal situation in Ireland for battery assisted bikes (Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycle) but I cannot find any definite information.

What I want to know is - If I am stopped by the Guards will they look for road tax, insurance, helmet etc?

I have been looking at some cool e-bike conversions kits on-line and there are a couple that would suit me.

Thanks in advance.

Snowball

as far as I know road tax is only for internal combustion engines but I'd pose this question in Motorbikes. You might have better luck there.

xonencentral

I have read a report on this lately where one of the energy agencies tested out an electric pedal bicycle and got into major hassle with the local super.

Apparently, in Ireland, anything which is a mechanically propelled vehicle (driven by motor) whether electric or petrol is subject to full regulation. THe only way it works is if you need to pedal as well as electric, i.e. the electric is an assist mechanism but the bike stops if you stop pedaling, which sounds stupid to me.

You should also note that you will need vehicle testing type approval CE marking to get anything registered in the EU.

Can't remember anything else from the report, it was on the web but don't remember where ?

We have stupid laws....(we should be called the republic of vested interests)

Eddiethehill

xonencentral wrote:

Apparently, in Ireland, anything which is a mechanically propelled vehicle (driven by motor) whether electric or petrol is subject to full regulation. THe only way it works is if you need to pedal as well as electric, i.e. the electric is an assist mechanism but the bike stops if you stop pedaling, which sounds stupid to me.

You should also note that you will need vehicle testing type approval CE marking to get anything registered in the EU.

thanks xonencentral,

Actually that is the type of e-bike I am interested in. These conversion kits have an (optional) sensor which allows you to get motor assistance when you pedel. This I have read is not burdensome to use. If what you say is true then it is is possible to convert a bike for use in Ireland.

I still need to see the exact law though , if only to quote to the garda if I am stopped.

Is there anybody who can tell me where to look this regulation up?

Again thanks in advance!

alias no.9

€31 road tax per year

https://www.motortax.ie/mtoapp/pdf/motortax_rates_2004_en.pdf

aoa321

Hi eddiethhill,

would you mind posting some links to the conversion kits that you are considering, I would like to see more details. I have considered these sorts of kits in the past but when I looked around for one a couple of weeks ago on the internet I didn't find any that I liked the look of.

aoa

Eddiethehill

aoa321 wrote:

Hi eddiethhill,

would you mind posting some links to the conversion kits that you are considering, I would like to see more details. I have considered these sorts of kits in the past but when I looked around for one a couple of weeks ago on the internet I didn't find any that I liked the look of.

aoa

Sure aoa321! Here is a quick sample...
GOLDEN ISLAND MACHENARY LTD.
A good simple e-bike conversion kit is shown in this Canadian website. This one uses 36V and uses a front brushless hub motor.
http://www.goldenmotor.com/

There is also a photo of a pedal sensor (Pedelec System -- motor works only when you are pedaling) on this site. This part would be essential in order to stay legal in Ireland , or so I am informed (motor-assisted pedal vehicle as opposed to mechanically propelled vehicle).
This site is very short on technical details such as expected motor torque, wiring diagrams etc. so you would want to be well read-up on the subject before buying their gear. I do like the fact that the finished conversions do not LOOK like e-bikes but more like normal mountain bikes with a rucksack on the carrier.

The motor and perhaps the other components come from China. There are two diagrams showing motor controller wiring and motor performance at 36v for various speeds.


Electric Bicycles
General introduction to Light Electric Vehicles of all kinds.
http://www.electric-bikes.com/
This site does show some pretty spacey designs which might put you off if you want to pedal withoug attracting attention. A good site to use as a base for finding user groups etc.


Wilderness Energy
http://www.wildernessenergy.com
A very typical company (US/Canada) supplying parts for bike conversions. They seem to prefer lead/acid sealed batteries but their products are very typical of what is on offer.

There is a factory in the UK making hub motors but I have lost their website address. They seem to be pretty good technically but were expensive. They favoured NiMH batterues which are MUCH more expensive than lead/acid but more environmentally friendly.

Kinetics
http://www.kinetics.org.uk
Another UK outfit that sell kits and do conversons. Their website is a little confusing and hard to follow but they seem to be a largish company. The sell Heinzmann hub motors and control systems (supposed to be really good).

Getting back to my original question . If I must pay road tax due to it having an electric motor, must I pay insurance as well?

All the best,
Eddiethehill

aoa321

excellent sites, thanks for the information.

Capt'n Midnight

IIRC there used to be (and still may be) an exception for devices that would not move without you peadling. If the device can move without you pedaling then yes it's tax and license needed (VRT ??). If it's done in a way that the power can only be applied while you pedal then you might be able to do without either.

Eddiethehill

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

IIRC there used to be (and still may be) an exception for devices that would not move without you peadling. If the device can move without you pedaling then yes it's tax and license needed (VRT ??). If it's done in a way that the power can only be applied while you pedal then you might be able to do without either.

Capt'n Midnight,
This is encouraging. Do you know where I can go to verify this? Is it written in some official publication?

The kit I want to buy has provision for a pedal sensor to be attached. This input to the control box (a small electronic box on the handlebar) is used to enable power to the motor ONLY when the pedals are turning in the forward direction. This device is called a pedalec.

I have seen references to the pedalec type bike being unregulated(no tax or insurance) in the EU but I have never been able to track it down in anything like an official document.

Any official information on this is welcome. All I have got so far are vague references and hearsay.

Thanks again.
Eddiethehill

ambro25

alias no.9 wrote:

€31 road tax per year

https://www.motortax.ie/mtoapp/pdf/motortax_rates_2004_en.pdf

Second that, just paid mine on a electric-only scooter (EVT - no pedals, though).

As an aside, anyone here knowledgeable about batteries, charging and stuff?

xonencentral you seem to now a fair bit? (from your posts in the "wind turbine" thread - thinking of installing one of these myself to recharge the scooter and get a 100% renewable-energy transport -yay!- but not really got a clue about how to go about it , so I'll keep reading your thread and follow your linkies )

I bought my EVT at around the "Katrina Storm" time, second-hand (2 years old), and now thinking batteries (one or more, there's 4 (x12V = 48V) and they're rated at 500 cycles or so before replacement) may need changing as I'm only getting 15 miles or so from a full charge (bike is rated 30+ from factory), but I'm looking at possible alternatives to the OEM lead ones ... any ideas?

PS: Not wanting to upset anyone here, but the folks @ green machines appear more bothered with selling the things & ancillaries/parts than maintaining/upgrading the bikes

Eddiethehill

ambro25 wrote:

Second that, just paid mine on a electric-only scooter (EVT - no pedals, though)...(

Ambro,
When you were paying your tax were you asked for insurance or NCT?
The reason I ask this is because I suspect that if you must pay road tax then you would need the others as well. I may be wrong here though.

Thanks

ambro25

Eddiethehill wrote:

Ambro,
When you were paying your tax were you asked for insurance or NCT?
The reason I ask this is because I suspect that if you must pay road tax then you would need the others as well. I may be wrong here though.

Thanks

Insurance only - it's a moped, you'd want insurance tbh, even if only 3rd party: what if you knock someone over? Which importantly you want to consider if you're going to travel electrically: remember, no noise!.

I've already lost count of how many times I've had to mash the brakes because of people jumping in front of me to cross the road, iPod full-on, never once checking the road because they're not vaguely hearing any moped 'buzz'.

AFAIK, there's no NCT for it or required (and Tax Office didn't ask either), but I could be wrong (it is 2 years old, and I'm also hoping no NCT *ever*, as I'm not sure if I could make it to the centre and back, LOL!).

jaqian

xonencentral wrote:

Apparently, in Ireland, anything which is a mechanically propelled vehicle (driven by motor) whether electric or petrol is subject to full regulation.

This seems to be true alright. Remember the craze last xmas with all the kids getting motorised scooters? Well a few kids I know (around 12/13yrs old) where stopped by the gardaí and asked for insurance! And no this wasn't a wind-up as the scooters were confiscated and the parents had to re-claim at the station!!! Needless to say the scooters are no more.

turbine?

As far as I know motorbikes and scooters don't need a NCT, perhaps check over on the motorcycle forum?

Eltaz

electric scooters with pedals what is the story with these
because this company in kilkenny claim you dont need No licence. No tax.No insurance it has pedal dose anybody know anyone who own one http://www.madbikesireland.com/product_info.php?cPath=64&products_id=407

djpbarry

Eltaz wrote: »

electric scooters with pedals what is the story with these
because this company in kilkenny claim you dont need No licence. No tax.No insurance it has pedal dose anybody know anyone who own one

It's generally a better idea to start a new thread rather than dig up an old one, especially when the thread in question is almost 5 years old!