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Interesting Tournament situation

  • 19-10-2005 7:27am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,666 ✭✭✭


    Below is a hand from a 5$ rebuy tournament. We are just in the money (somewhere between 45-63 left). Average stack is somewhere between 60k and 80k. I've taken a big hit recently and have only shown down big hands although most have got by without showing.

    SV Ron is a good player. thePokerDB tells me he cashes quite a lot and often at the business end of things. He's playing pretty tight and has always shown down strong hands.
    PS Hand wrote:
    PokerStars Game #2826734645: Tournament #13822473, Hold'em No Limit - Level XV (2000/4000) - 2005/10/17 - 16:25:44 (ET)
    Table '13822473 59' Seat #3 is the button
    Seat 1: mister MH (58097 in chips)
    Seat 2: Poisa (90074 in chips)
    Seat 3: Silent_BD (33278 in chips)
    Seat 4: Roberta89074 (38270 in chips)
    Seat 5: SV Ron (90248 in chips)
    Seat 6: alimakal (89532 in chips)
    Seat 7: Ilost1again (159210 in chips)
    Seat 8: LuckyLibra (245804 in chips)
    Seat 9: Imposter1 (67718 in chips)
    mister MH: posts the ante 200
    Poisa: posts the ante 200
    Silent_BD: posts the ante 200
    Roberta89074: posts the ante 200
    SV Ron: posts the ante 200
    alimakal: posts the ante 200
    Ilost1again: posts the ante 200
    LuckyLibra: posts the ante 200
    Imposter1: posts the ante 200
    Roberta89074: posts small blind 2000
    SV Ron: posts big blind 4000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Imposter1 [Kh Ac]
    alimakal: folds
    Ilost1again: raises 4000 to 8000
    LuckyLibra: folds
    Imposter1: raises 8000 to 16000
    mister MH: folds
    Poisa: folds
    Silent_BD: folds
    Roberta89074: folds
    SV Ron: calls 12000
    Ilost1again: calls 8000
    *** FLOP *** [2s Th 6c]
    SV Ron: checks
    Ilost1again: checks
    Imposter1: bets 20000
    SV Ron: raises 54048 to 74048 and is all-in
    Ilost1again: folds

    So I need to call 31k into a 125k(ish) pot.
    I don't have him on AA or KK as that would have got a reraise preflop. Worst case scenario he has AT or KT in which case i've got 5 outs. Otherwise I have 6 outs. A bluff is also a possibility as he is a good player (although the other player in the hand makes that less likely - but other player was pretty passive).

    So do I risk going out of the tournament where i'm just about getting the pot odds to call or do I fold and leave myself shortstacked but still in the tourney?


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Hectorjelly


    You have to call the flop, and you should of gone all in preflop.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,666 ✭✭✭Imposter


    ...and you should of gone all in preflop.
    Why do you say that?

    I would have thought I should be trying to double up here and going all-in preflop is unlikely to acheive that. My stack size is awkward because ideally i'd like to raise more preflop but then a continuation bet is impossible unless it's all-in, in which case it'll generally only be called when i'm losing/beaten.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Norwich Fan Rob


    u cant min re raise with a hand like AK pre flop with those blinds.
    if u have him on AT or KT, how do u have 5 outs, surely u have 3.
    either way, u have made the play on this hand very hard for yourself with the pre flop play.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Hectorjelly


    Imposter wrote:
    Why do you say that?

    I would have thought I should be trying to double up here and going all-in preflop is unlikely to acheive that. My stack size is awkward because ideally i'd like to raise more preflop but then a continuation bet is impossible unless it's all-in, in which case it'll generally only be called when i'm losing/beaten.


    First on all You raised him 2 big blinds (8000) which is crazy because there is 22,000 in the pot. Why the small raise? Your creating a situation in whcih he will call because its a small raise and then 2/3 of the time you miss the flop and you have bloated the pot to make it hard to lay down. Now you HAVE to call the flop because to do otherwise is a disastor. Also you let other players into the pot. You broke a fundantal tenent of playing no limit, when you raise some ones bet you reraise the pot or most of the pot. If the raise is going to commit you then just go all in.

    If you dont want to go all in here with AK, and frankly this is the perfect situation for it, then just flat call and fold when you miss.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,666 ✭✭✭Imposter


    First on all You raised him 2 big blinds (8000) which is crazy because there is 22,000 in the pot. Why the small raise? Your creating a situation in whcih he will call because its a small raise and then 2/3 of the time you miss the flop and you have bloated the pot to make it hard to lay down. Now you HAVE to call the flop because to do otherwise is a disastor. Also you let other players into the pot. You broke a fundantal tenent of playing no limit, when you raise some ones bet you reraise the pot or most of the pot. If the raise is going to commit you then just go all in.

    If you dont want to go all in here with AK, and frankly this is the perfect situation for it, then just flat call and fold when you miss.
    There's 14k in the pot. He has already raised to 2*BB. I reraised twice his bet (not 2 BB's). Before the hand started I had almost 17BB's. IMO that's too much to be going all-in with if you want a caller.

    Rob sorry yes 3 outs! ...but outs none the less ;)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Hectorjelly


    The big blind is 4k. He made it 8k and you made it 16k which is a raise of two blinds.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,666 ✭✭✭Imposter


    The big blind is 4k. He made it 8k and you made it 16k which is a raise of two blinds.
    Sorry I read it wrong.

    My point about raising more still holds though. I can't put in a continuation bet and an all-in after the flop is only going to be called by someone who's ahead of me. All-in preflop wins me only 14k (+antes) most of the time, which is not what I want.

    If I call and someone after me goes all-in i'm probably looking at, at best, a coinflip.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Hectorjelly


    Ak is a strange hand, its strong but can be hard to play. You played it in the worst way possible preflop and paid for it on the flop. Make things easy on yourself in future.

    If you flat call and someone goes all in then you are not looking at a coinflip, do you really think that at this stakes someone wont push AJ/AQ? Also there is plenty of dead money. You can fold as well if you want.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,666 ✭✭✭Imposter


    If you flat call and someone goes all in then you are not looking at a coinflip, do you really think that at this stakes someone wont push AJ/AQ? Also there is plenty of dead money. You can fold as well if you want.
    They'd possibly push with a few hands i'm ahead of but against most of the range of pushing hands it's a coinflip or i'm fecked, especially seeing as there are now 2 raises there. We are in the money so most of the idiots are gone. PS also gets surprisingly good players playing these low buy-in games because the fields are so large. Some of those at my table had relatively big cashes in games a lot higher than 5$ rebuys. 1st place in this game was over 3k.


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