British special forces up to their old tricks in Iraq.

Blub2k4

I was having a look at this thread and someone mentioned the fact that the car that the British army guys were driving was wired for an explosion and that this fact was mentioned in the first BBC world service broadcast about the issue and that it was not mentioned again. ( I assume this would be verifiable if the report were not already washed from the archive, I may have a look online)

If you google the subject you will see that the first link that pops up is one from Prison planet and they mention a few seeming facts before moving on to opining on the situation.
Ok so to head off the criticism that it is a lefty website etc, let us suppose that the article is fact and disregard the opinion. What do you think they could have been up to in Iraq killing one police man and injuring another while dressed as locals? My mates sister who is a senior British diplomat out there told his family it was a reconnaissance mission, I wont mention her name but if you google it she is all over the place in Iraq as a senior spook with arabic and a local liasson there right now.

Personally I think they were up to their old colonial tricks again, we've seen it everywhere they want to leave, foment civil war and leg it, leaving the locals so busy at each others throats that they are hardly noticed in their hasty retreat. <edit> the other option is that they are seeking to escalate the situation with Iran by blaming them, or a combination of the above.
What do you all think, what could they possibly have been doing disguised and in a car wired to explode?

Sand

What do you all think, what could they possibly have been doing disguised and in a car wired to explode?

If you google the subject you will see that the first link that pops up is one from Prison planet and they mention a few seeming facts before moving on to opining on the situation.
Ok so to head off the criticism that it is a lefty website etc, let us suppose that the article is fact and disregard the opinion.

Seeing as its not a proven fact AFAIK and merely a rumour on a lefty conspiracy theory website, and indeed even the tin hats limit themselves to saying they saw reports say that the car contained explosives ( not that it was wired as a car bomb as you imply).....what would be the point beyond Brit bashing. A fine pursuit in its own right, but better when its done on solid footing surely?

mike65

My mates sister who is a senior British diplomat out there told his family it was a reconnaissance mission, I wont mention her name but if you google it she is all over the place in Iraq as a senior spook with arabic and a local liasson there right now

Your mates sister need a good talking to with a mouth like that!

Mike.

Blub2k4

mike65 wrote:

Your mates sister need a good talking to with a mouth like that!

Mike.

Dont get all worked up about it there Mike, she is a big girl and able to look after herself, apart from the constant SAS guard she has.
Official story is it was reccy, I mean that's a lot nicer than the alternative, which is my theory.

Sand wrote:

Seeing as its not a proven fact AFAIK and merely a rumour on a lefty conspiracy theory website

So you dont have an opinion on it either and just want to sidetrack it off into the lefty conspiracy theory tin foil hat, stuff. I'll tell you one thing about the tin foil hat theories, they have mostly been spot on about Iraq, especially with the sites I have been reading, yet you guys are still bleating the lines as if per writ.
Are you having to constantly change your ideas on what is happening there or are you content you have assessed it correctly from day one? WMD and all that guff?

So anyone else there with an opinion beyond what I already thought I had covered, I'll repeat for anyone who wants to sidetrack on the tin foil idea, this is not the proposed debate, start your own thread, if you take it as fact that the story is correct then what motive would there have been.

P.S. I dont know what motive you guys had in your inane responses but next time try to read the thread and stay on topic, Sand can be excused as his eyes are obviously hurting and his head only stopped spinning at having had a look at a "tin foil hat" website.

Hobbes

It may of been recon but doesn't explain why they shot and killed police officers and were not charged for it.

There was another such incident recently, only reason I have mentioned it before now is that the people in the car have not been confirmed as who they were (except they were not Iraqis, rumours were they were US troops disguised). The UK troops turned up again to take them into custody, only this time not destroying a prison and freeing the other prisoners in the process.

Strangely enough the UK have released a statement that the two SAS guys were in fact investigating the police chief related in the incident and thats why they were arrested. Doesn't make sense then that there were would be weapons and a car bomb with them.

county

My mates sister who is a senior British diplomat out there told his family it was a reconnaissance mission, I wont mention her name but if you google it she is all over the place in Iraq as a senior spook with arabic and a local liasson there right now.

proof, or is this cock and bull?

Blub2k4

Blub2k4 wrote:

P.S. I dont know what motive you guys had in your inane responses but next time try to read the thread and stay on topic, Sand can be excused as his eyes are obviously hurting and his head only stopped spinning at having had a look at a "tin foil hat" website.

I'm not going to tollerate that kind of personal abuse here.
Take a weeks holidays from the politics forum.

As for the thread,I'm moving it to the conspiracy theories board where ye all including yourself can continue to discuss this to your hearts content.

billy the squid

thats the second time you have done that earthman

banned a user from politics and then moving their thread into a forum that they can post in

billy the squid

@Blub2K4

I would take the writings of Alex Jones with a pinch of salt. He provided absoloutely no evidence that the BBC reported that there were explosives in the car the brittish SAS soldiers were driving.

Now while I would question why they would have raided a prison to rescue brittish soldiers who had been accused of committing crime in Iraq, I would imagine that it would not be in their interest to deliberately get a rise out of the local iraqis.

From what I gather, the reasoning behind the "rescue" was that proper procedure was not followed. The police handed the british soldiers over to the local malitia instead of taking them into custody themselves. The Iraqi malitia groups are not known for treating people fairly.

billy the squid

billy the squid wrote:

thats the second time you have done that earthman

banned a user from politics and then moving their thread into a forum that they can post in

Yeah I know, its my messiah complex

Kernel

It would be in the interests of the coalition to stir up resentment and conflict between the Sunni and Shia Iraqis, since most fundamentalist anti-coalition are Sunni, and yet the vast majority of the population are Shia. If you get popular support, you've got the occupation situation under control. By blaming Sunni's for suicide attacks on Shia (and even the stampede at the bridge recently), you turn the majority of the population against the insurgent Sunnis. Hearts and minds, only accelerated.

A similar tactic was utilised (in my opinion) against Hariri in Lebanon, whereby he was assassinated by unknown killers, but the blame was placed on Syria. The result was the withdrawal of Syrian forces from Lebanon, which was always (and especially recently) a major objective of the coalition countries.

Arafat was assassinated also.

Blub2k4

county wrote:

My mates sister who is a senior British diplomat out there told his family it was a reconnaissance mission, I wont mention her name but if you google it she is all over the place in Iraq as a senior spook with arabic and a local liasson there right now.

proof, or is this cock and bull?

I dont quite understand your question county. Sorry I did actually write a reply to this a few days ago and it got lost with the restore of the database after the upgrade. In any case, I cant prove it but suffice to say that if you google her name and Iraq it will come up on over 90 pages, she is escorted everywhere by SAS men and if I were to name her I would be possibly comprimising her position as I am a good friend of her brothers and he was told that by his mother. Believe it or dont believe it, in any case it tallies with the official story just she had it a bit faster.
Her brother doesn't even believe it, why did the locals attack them and firebomb the tanks? Why did they break into the prison, surely the local officials would be friendly to them and do as they bid if they did not have a case?
It was a local judge, presumably coalition approved, why did it happen like it did?

black_jack

Blub2k4 wrote:

I dont quite understand your question county. Sorry I did actually write a reply to this a few days ago and it got lost with the restore of the database after the upgrade. In any case, I cant prove it but suffice to say that if you google her name and Iraq it will come up on over 90 pages, she is escorted everywhere by SAS men and if I were to name her I would be possibly comprimising her position as I am a good friend of her brothers and he was told that by his mother. Believe it or dont believe it, in any case it tallies with the official story just she had it a bit faster.

I'm sorry blub2k4 but thats horsecock. You can't tell us your source because her mummy would get mad?

Furthermore if you google her name and Iraq 90 pages come up, then I'd suggest that her security is already pretty much compromised, Yes?

Prehaps you can tell us what her roll is? Department? Involvement?

Her brother doesn't even believe it, why did the locals attack them and firebomb the tanks? Why did they break into the prison, surely the local officials would be friendly to them and do as they bid if they did not have a case?

The issue being the local police is utterly compromised by insurgents, and that the british army feel it is necessary to go ex judicary to free their men, they were held remember not only in a prison but a locals house. So rather than squander your time (and your far far superior sources than ours) wonder how the british army trained a police force they can't trust and how on earth that f*ck up happened, than trying to drum up conspiracies that even your mummy won't let you talk about.

It was a local judge, presumably coalition approved, why did it happen like it did?

thats the issue here. Not your farcial conspiracy theory, but that the recruitment of local officals has through necessisity involved compromise and including less salubrious characters which has resulted in this dangerous situation.

Kernel

black_jack wrote:

.....etc....

Eh, you're being a bit harsh on Blub. Don't you think there was anything strange about the whole situation those special forces disguised soldiers and their comrades were in, and how they decided to extricate them????????????????

Blub2k4

I pretty much answered Black Jack on the other thread, but the thing is that I can not link a statement from a British dimplomat to them directly when I know it from a personal contact and not in her role as a public official for the UK.
Either you understand the implication for her and her family or you dont, they're not playing toy soldiers over there you know.

<edit>
ok I have actually found the official statement by her with a bit of googling, so it appears her statement is already in the public domain, so I'll link to it.
If I had known of this earlier I would not have failed to name her, should've checked I suppose.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1578247,00.html

Still not proof that I know her brother, and like I said it was the official line anyway.
Recently two of her SAS body guards were also killed when she was out and about.

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=karen+mcluskie+&btnG=Search&meta=

The link above is the result of googling her name, the story about the recent attack is there somewhere.
Why so much hostility and distrust black jack, when did I ever piss in your corn flakes?

Kernel

Kernel wrote:

A similar tactic was utilised (in my opinion) against Hariri in Lebanon, whereby he was assassinated by unknown killers, but the blame was placed on Syria. The result was the withdrawal of Syrian forces from Lebanon, which was always (and especially recently) a major objective of the coalition countries.

Arafat was assassinated also.

You're absolutely right K, why, look at the latest developments:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4365236.stm

I guess it's a precursor to an invasion to impose UN sanctions nowadays, just like in Iraq. And Syria have long been on 'the list'.

And as for Arafat... unknown illness, and then the renewal of Israeli/Palestinian peace talks as soon as he died, as well as instantly being demonised by News Corporation affiliates, including the laughably biased Sky News? Why, I wonder why more people cant see through the facade Kernal.


Oh, and Mossad are known experts at assassinating political opponents on foreign soil - using car bombs.

Blub2k4

Kernel wrote:

You're absolutely right K, why, look at the latest developments:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4365236.stm

I guess it's a precursor to an invasion to impose UN sanctions nowadays, just like in Iraq. And Syria have long been on 'the list'.

And as for Arafat... unknown illness, and then the renewal of Israeli/Palestinian peace talks as soon as he died, as well as instantly being demonised by News Corporation affiliates, including the laughably biased Sky News? Why, I wonder why more people cant see through the facade Kernal.


Oh, and Mossad are known experts at assassinating political opponents on foreign soil - using car bombs.

You see that's why I objected to this being moved to conspiracy theories, I believe it to be worthy of discussion in the politics forum as I dont think it is a conspiracy theory. I think it is the reality of war, as you say why dont more see it? It's not like the Brits dont have past form with dirty wars or anything, or like they didn't already do similar the last time they were in Iraq. It amazes me that people swallow the official lines on the balance of probabilities.

black_jack

Blub2k4 wrote:

I pretty much answered Black Jack on the other thread, but the thing is that I can not link a statement from a British dimplomat to them directly when I know it from a personal contact and not in her role as a public official for the UK.
Either you understand the implication for her and her family or you dont, they're not playing toy soldiers over there you know.

<edit>
ok I have actually found the official statement by her with a bit of googling, so it appears her statement is already in the public domain, so I'll link to it.
If I had known of this earlier I would not have failed to name her, should've checked I suppose.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1578247,00.html

Still not proof that I know her brother, and like I said it was the official line anyway.
Recently two of her SAS body guards were also killed when she was out and about.

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=karen+mcluskie+&btnG=Search&meta=

The link above is the result of googling her name, the story about the recent attack is there somewhere.
Why so much hostility and distrust black jack, when did I ever piss in your corn flakes?

1) Neither of those links support your original claim

My mates sister who is a senior British diplomat out there told his family it was a reconnaissance mission,

2) Neither of those links support your claim that her bodyguard was killed.

So basically you could have done a bit of googling and created this name, this does nothing to support your original assertion.

Why so much hostility and distrust? Because you appear to be making stuff up.

Theres not a shred of evidence to support your claim.

kernal wrote:

You're absolutely right K, why, look at the latest developments:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4365236.stm

I guess it's a precursor to an invasion to impose UN sanctions nowadays, just like in Iraq. And Syria have long been on 'the list'.

Do you know anything about the syrian lebannonese situation? What are you suggesting that the US infiltrated Syrian secret service and stage managed this whole event?

Theres an independent UN investigate which examined 70,000 phonecalls and traced it to syria, what evidence do you have it was carried out by mossad? Don't let yourself get dragged down by pesky things like facts

And as for Arafat... unknown illness, and then the renewal of Israeli/Palestinian peace talks as soon as he died, as well as instantly being demonised by News Corporation affiliates, including the laughably biased Sky News? Why, I wonder why more people cant see through the facade Kernal.

Right Mossad managed to get through Arafat's security, poison him with a compound that the finest french doctors couldn't find....

Alternatively the stress and difficultly of living in the shattered remains of his compound surrounded by israeli tanks trying to keep his administration together through force of will, finally became too much for his frail old body.

Which one is more plausible.

Blub2k4

black_jack wrote:

1) Neither of those links support your original claim

You're obviously just scanning this and being aggressive because you are on your mission to insult people in this forum, whatever, at least read the posts correctly. I never claimed that Mcluskie had anything to do with the attempted car bombing, I claimed that she said that it was a reccy mission and the link backs that up. Read the posts correctly.
I agree that the conclusions that I am drawing are based on past form of the brits in Iraq and NI and anywhere else they put their grubby imperialist claws. None of the links apart from the original article from prison planet substantiate my claims about the car bomb, I would like to know how to get my hands on a transcript or recording of the bbc news archive, maybe you could try and debunk it that way by proving there was no report, it is certainly not easy to find it.

Black_jack wrote:

2) Neither of those links support your claim that her bodyguard was killed.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1715184,00.html

The story as it originally surfaced has been changed a bit, again I was told by her brother that it was two sas guards of hers that were killed, this article says they were security contractors.

Dont be calling me a lier and not reading the links.

Finally stop being abusive and aggressive, if you want to discuss things try to have some manners, I wont stand in the way of your crusade as long as you dont insult me again, got it?

black_jack

Blub2k4 wrote:

You're obviously just scanning this and being aggressive because you are on your mission to insult people in this forum, whatever, at least read the posts correctly. I never claimed that Mcluskie had anything to do with the attempted car bombing, I claimed that she said that it was a reccy mission and the link backs that up. Read the posts correctly.
I agree that the conclusions that I am drawing are based on past form of the brits in Iraq and NI and anywhere else they put their grubby imperialist claws. None of the links apart from the original article from prison planet substantiate my claims about the car bomb, I would like to know how to get my hands on a transcript or recording of the bbc news archive, maybe you could try and debunk it that way by proving there was no report, it is certainly not easy to find it.

So to quote Lionel Hutz "I've got hearsay and conjecture" those are kinds of proof.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1715184,00.html

The story as it originally surfaced has been changed a bit, again I was told by her brother that it was two sas guards of hers that were killed, this article says they were security contractors.

For starts the above link didn't appear in your previous post

Dont be calling me a lier and not reading the links.

Lets look at your proof

Karen McLuskie, a spokeswoman for the consulate, said Hull and his colleague — who has not been named — worked for the private security company Control Risks Group.

Doesn't say anywhere that they were her bodyguards.

Finally stop being abusive and aggressive, if you want to discuss things try to have some manners, I wont stand in the way of your crusade as long as you dont insult me again, got it?

IF you think I'm being abusive report me to a mod, my crusade? you've a mound of links that don't even prove your claim. You're the worst kind of conspiracy theorist

Blub2k4

Listen black_jack, you would really want to start reading the links I am posting, this is also getting tiring.

Ken Hull, 48, died when the three-vehicle convoy was attacked at a junction in the Qiblah district. He was protecting diplomatic staff from the British consulate on a routine journey.

Karen McLuskie, a spokeswoman for the consulate, said Hull and his colleague — who has not been

Now I happen to know that she was in the convoy at the time of the attack, like I said her brother is a good friend of mine, I think at the time he posted me a link from Sky news relating to the attack I can not find it now on google I will ask him on monday when I am back at work if I can find it.
You obviously dont believe anything I say, that is your prerogative, it is hearsay, but where would you prefer I source my views? On the official sanitised line that is spewed out by a propoganda effort? I prefer personal experience and in some cases second hand accounts, in the two posts where you have taken such a disliking to my opinion here there is hearsay and conjecture, I suggest if you want a better line of proof you research it yourself.

black_jack

Blub2k4 wrote:

Listen black_jack, you would really want to start reading the links I am posting, this is also getting tiring.




Now I happen to know that she was in the convoy at the time of the attack, like I said her brother is a good friend of mine, I think at the time he posted me a link from Sky news relating to the attack I can not find it now on google I will ask him on monday when I am back at work if I can find it.

Firstly they were her bodyguards and SAS, now they were in convoy with her and security consulltants.

I love how you'll rubbish the offical propaganda, but happily get your news from them

You obviously dont believe anything I say, that is your prerogative, it is hearsay, but where would you prefer I source my views?

If you're going to spout this stuff on a website, prepare to have it rebuted, you'd rather post half assed barely believable conspiracy theories, and recieve a bunch of back slapping "you're right" rather than someone expose the holes and inconsistences in your tale.

On the official sanitised line that is spewed out by a propoganda effort?

Yeah you're bringing out the voice of truth.

I love this asking me "who are you going to believe, journalists, and diplomats, or me? some bloke on the interweb"

I prefer personal experience and in some cases second hand accounts,

My mate kev down the pub he reckons.............. :rolleyes:

in the two posts where you have taken such a disliking to my opinion here there is hearsay and conjecture, I suggest if you want a better line of proof you research it yourself.

You're posting this nonsense the onus is on you to verify it and provide proof, not I.

Kernel

black_jack wrote:

Do you know anything about the syrian lebannonese situation?

Yes, quite a lot actually, why do you think I'm talking about it... jesus... :rolleyes:

black_jack wrote:

What are you suggesting that the US infiltrated Syrian secret service and stage managed this whole event?

No, I never said that. What I did say is that it suited US agenda in the region, and that Syria was one of the countries named in Bush's 'Axis of Evil'. I would suggest that it bears the hallmarks of similar Mossad assassinations on foreign soil also.

black_jack wrote:

Theres an independent UN investigate which examined 70,000 phonecalls and traced it to syria, what evidence do you have it was carried out by mossad? Don't let yourself get dragged down by pesky things like facts

Facts? What are your facts that the bombing was carried out my Syria? A UN investigation which has revealed what exactly?

black_jack wrote:

Right Mossad managed to get through Arafat's security, poison him with a compound that the finest french doctors couldn't find....

Mossad would have had many ways to administer a poison. And yes, the doctors couldn't find out why Arafat was dying and sick in the way that he was. Are you even aware of how much money is spent on biological warfare? You think many new poison compounds haven't been developed!?!? Ah sure, according to you people never get poisoned by politcal opponents... just ask Viktor Yushchenko, I guess he just ate some bad clams! :rolleyes:

black_jack wrote:

Alternatively the stress and difficultly of living in the shattered remains of his compound surrounded by israeli tanks trying to keep his administration together through force of will, finally became too much for his frail old body.

Nonsense... stress doesn't result in people developing debilitating unknown illnesses which cause them to suddenly suffer for weeks before finally dying. Arafat was well used to stress, and was a strong character. Arafat knew he was unwell, and went to the finest doctors in France, who could not give him a diagnosis. As soon as he is declared dead, Jews celebrate all over the state they call Israel and Sharon (war criminal who launched artillery strikes on refrugee camps among other things) wants fresh peace talks. Which is also something the yanks wanted, but knew could not happen with Arafat since Sharon hated him and knew Arafat wouldn't scrape and bow before his illegitimate territorial claims.

black_jack

Kernel wrote:

Yes, quite a lot actually, why do you think I'm talking about it... jesus... :rolleyes:


Facts? What are your facts that the bombing was carried out my Syria? A UN investigation which has revealed what exactly?

You know about the region but don't know about this? :rolleyes:

http://aawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=1&id=2307

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2005-10-22T213945Z_01_MOL243049_RTRUKOC_0_UK-HARIRI.xml

A U.N. report said on Thursday the decision to kill Hariri "could not have been taken without the approval of top-ranked Syrian security officials" colluding with counterparts in Lebanon.

The UN report released on Friday which placed the blame squarely on the Syrian secret service.

No, I never said that. What I did say is that it suited US agenda in the region, and that Syria was one of the countries named in Bush's 'Axis of Evil'. I would suggest that it bears the hallmarks of similar Mossad assassinations on foreign soil also.

Thats nice, expert on Mossad assassinations aren't we?

And so what the US bombed him, and placed the blame on Syria? How and why?

Mossad would have had many ways to administer a poison. And yes, the doctors couldn't find out why Arafat was dying and sick in the way that he was. Are you even aware of how much money is spent on biological warfare? You think many new poison compounds haven't been developed!?!? Ah sure, according to you people never get poisoned by politcal opponents... just ask Viktor Yushchenko, I guess he just ate some bad clams! :rolleyes:

Conjecture pointing to one attempted murder as prove of another. Wheres your evidence arafat was poisoned?

Nonsense... stress doesn't result in people developing debilitating unknown illnesses which cause them to suddenly suffer for weeks before finally dying. Arafat was well used to stress, and was a strong character. Arafat knew he was unwell, and went to the finest doctors in France, who could not give him a diagnosis. As soon as he is declared dead, Jews celebrate all over the state they call Israel and Sharon (war criminal who launched artillery strikes on refrugee camps among other things) wants fresh peace talks. Which is also something the yanks wanted, but knew could not happen with Arafat since Sharon hated him and knew Arafat wouldn't scrape and bow before his illegitimate territorial claims.

I love the talking down to me about the situation. Do you not think if there was any suspicion about Arafat's death the Palestinian authority would have raised it?

And yes he was well used to stress, but he was no longer a young man, living in the ruins of his compound surrounded for years.

You're clutching at straws.

Kernel

black_jack wrote:

You know about the region but don't know about this? :rolleyes:

http://aawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=1&id=2307

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2005-10-22T213945Z_01_MOL243049_RTRUKOC_0_UK-HARIRI.xml

Well, I see that BlackJack is banned now, but for the benefit of other forum members I'll reply to his stuff. What he has presented here are two reports from the news stating that Hariri's son wants the killers of his father brought to justice. Fair enough, if it was my father I'd want the same. Unfortunately, they prove nothing in this argument.

black_jack wrote:

The UN report released on Friday which placed the blame squarely on the Syrian secret service.

The UN report is all you have to go on, and reports can be faked, or situations can be manipulated correctly to lead a report to come to an untrue conclusion. Just because a UN report has found the blame to lie with Syria, does not mean it is so. All it means, is that the report was meant to place the blame on Syria. When dealing with conspiracy theories, or any political information, one must always look to the bottom line, and see who benefits in the long run. Certainly not Syria or Lebanon. Indeed, Syria was forced to pull out of Lebanon as a result of pressure applied with regard to the Hariri killing. They had nothing to gain from it. America, and Israel, however, wanted Syria out.

black_jack wrote:

Thats nice, expert on Mossad assassinations aren't we?

And so what the US bombed him, and placed the blame on Syria? How and why?

Well, I know a little of Mossad's bloody history, and tactics, yes. Here's a news report of what most Arabs felt was a Mossad attack on foreign soil:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3691082.stm
http://www.ict.org.il/spotlight/det.cfm?id=1017

Some facts:

http://judicial-inc.biz/Lebanon_Prime_Minister.htm

An interesting excerpt from a book about Mossad operations:

http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/libya.html

black_jack wrote:

Conjecture pointing to one attempted murder as prove of another. Wheres your evidence arafat was poisoned?

You will find plenty of conjecture in a conspiracy theories forum. That's why they are called 'theories' rather than conspiracy facts. In Jordan, in 1997, Mossad bungled an attempt to poison Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal. Hence, I can assume by that *fact* that Hamas use or certainly have used poisoning of political opponents as a tactic. It is also a fact that while Arafat was besieged in his compound, by Israeli tanks, he developed a serious illness which lingered long enough for him to choose to go to France for treatment, where it was said by his associates he had been poisoned. Doctors declared that he had a blood disorder which they could not initially account for. He went into a coma, and he died. As soon as he died, Isreal and the US usher in new possibilities for peace, without the troublesome and stubborn former PLO leader around. Another leader Mahmoud Abbas is installed, and peace talks are re-established... much to the joy of the US, who had been suffering at the hands of Islamic terrorists as a direct result of it's relationship with Israel, and funding of the Israeli military. Sharon the war criminal who ordered the strike against the Janin refugee camp (http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1967to1991_sabra_shatila.php) was forced to cater to some form of peace and concession to the Palestinians (by the US), and has barely survived politically from the Gaza pullout - Gaza being a tiny patch of land.

black_jack wrote:

I love the talking down to me about the situation. Do you not think if there was any suspicion about Arafat's death the Palestinian authority would have raised it?

The Palestinian authority did in fact (or members of it), raise those suspicions. The PA had to move quickly on to survive politically. At that stage they were already almost completely reduced to insignificance. Their entire infracstructure was destroyed, and a new leader would not want to point the finger at Israel, instead Abbas was more conciliatory to Sharon, as he had to be.

black_jack wrote:

You're clutching at straws.

Nope. I just often don't have time to educate all you tractable believers in Fox Corporation. Read about it in my book.