Estate residents object to new bus service

dowlingm

Well, if you want to know why integrated transport won't work in Ireland, look no further. Apparently this community wants to be like them gated ones in the States where you have rules about what flowers you have on your porch and what not - public transport is obviously for riffraff.

http://www.unison.ie/drogheda_independent/stories.php3?ca=38&si=1487880&issue_id=13137
Bus shuttles Grange Rath commuters to train station
(excerpt)

"While the new bus has been welcomed by those in the estate fed up with the lack of parking in the train station, some residents feel their privacy has been infringed upon and are unhappy that the bus passes through the estate every day.

‘We didn’t know it was going to be introduced until the last minute,’ said Fiona Giligan of the Grange Rath residents’ association.

‘There are a lot of people who don’t like the bus coming into the estate, this is a private housing estate and there shouldn’t be buses coming through it. We pay a management fee to keep the estate and people at the front are unhappy with the traffic situation there.’"

Sarsfield

I would dearly love to offer my opinion on Fiona Gilligan but I have no doubt a ban would quickly follow.

So let me instead point out politely what a stupid pig ignorant selfish bitch she really is.

Hagar

I'm 100% pro-car , mainly because I have to be but if a bus came through my estate I'd be on it. No question about it.

What a shower of gobshytes.

Victor

this is a private housing estate and there shouldn’t be buses coming through it.

Then build a wall all around it and stay inside

PandaMania

No bus in their private estate? Alright no fire brigade or Garda either so...

Sounds like a Fine Gael Ghetto.

Irjudge1

Mad just plain mad.

PandaMania

Checked out their website. The muppets have public transport links on the site:

http://grangerath.org/otherinfo/links.htm

These people should be shamed and embrassed publically for this. This should not be tolerated.

SeanW

Hi Thomas, long time no hear ...

You're all right of course the last thing we need is to become like a U.S. suburb where the bus is not so much a practical means of public transportation as an object of derision and a concept of Loserdom.

Blinkered is a nice way of putting Ms. Giligan's "vision." A very nice way.

Irjudge1

It looks to me that it is a bit of a control issue. The bus service was set up by the developer (can you believe that?) and they probably didn't fill in the correct form to get permission from the "officials" in the residents commitee.

Ray777

"this is a private housing estate and there shouldn’t be buses coming through it"

I don't blame them. For crying out loud, there could be working class people travelling on that bus. Would you want the working classes passing by your house every day?

PandaMania

It reminds me of that movie The Village with the residents living in terror of the real world outside. "there is evil afoot at the bus stop...be warned young uns...they are not like us, and they must not impose their evil ways on our blessed community and the bounty of 4-Wheel drives Our Good Lord in his grace has betowed upon us, his rightous folk...arrrrr".

Seriously though, wouldn't you be embrassed to admit that you live in a gated community like this? It is such an unhealthy way to live and you know the kids in these communities all grow up to spend their entire adult lives on the shrink's couch complaining about being unfullfilled.

Hi Sean, btw. Just a quick drive by public transport rant here.

base2

People who like to be part of residents committees really are the worst type of character.

stormkeeper

What's wrong with a public service going through a housing estate? After all, it's there for the people to use. When I was going to college in Dublin, I nearly always took the train, and because I had to go to Sallins from Naas, I had to take the Arrow feeder bus, and that went through a housing estate along its route. As far as I know, there were no complaints there...

In my opinion, this is really backward thinking.


Edit: Just looked at their site. They don't seem to mention their complaints against the bus service at all on it!

PandaMania

base2 wrote:

People who like to be part of residents committees really are the worst type of character.

Indeed. So many control freaks and headcases join these groups (in fact I would say this is the only type who join such organisations). The also attact the "I know it all and this is what I think" types. Gob****es who hadn't taken a train or bus in their lives demanding that Broadstone be reopened as long at the trains did not run while he was having a nap or mowing the lawn. I went to one in Renelagh for the LUAS before it opened and these women with designer outfits and covered in jewley demanding the Luas be free or they will continue to drive into town. "how will it be an alternative when I have to pay for it!" One arsehole with a classic rugby club accent demanding that the cosmetic stone facing on the bridge walls was reason enough to halt any further construction on the Luas project. All the worst kind of NIMBYs come from these residents associations as well.

PandaMania

Kennett wrote:

Just looked at their site. They don't seem to mention their complaints against the bus service at all on it!

You wonder if this wagon and a few other hysterical ninnys shot their mouths off about this without consulting other people in the area and did not expect it to become a national story.

DublinWriter

As a Dub living in Meath, I really feel ashamed at what I see some of my ex-pat brethern get up to here and in Louth.

This from their web****e (http://grangerath.org/currentcampaigns/current_campaigns.htm)...

The resident's association has been attempting to ensure a consistent and unified approach to planning, and or objections by residents, is achieved. To this end, we are monitoring any applications submitted to Meath County Council and considering any action as appropriate. Presently, we have objected to the proposed commercial development, as it has proposed 3 - 5 storey apartment blocks included.

Reading between the lines what they're really objecting to is the social housing the developer is obliged to build.

3-5 storey apartment blocks? Heaven forbid, you might get Nigerians and single mothers living there!

It just makes you want to buy a house there and strew your front garden with bits of old cars and day-glow gnomes.

base2

What annoyed me with these people when they blighted Maynooth back 10 years ago was their objecting to planning after they came. They didnt think aobut how they got their homes built but expected the rest of the town to want to say, 'Ok. These new people are here. No more development from now on.'

stormkeeper

PandaMania wrote:

You wonder if this wagon and a few other hysterical ninnys shot their mouths off about this without consulting other people in the area and did not expect it to become a national story.

Looks like it. I really have to wonder about people sometimes... I'd like to know what hassle a bus route would cause to an area that obviously needs it.

PandaMania

DublinWriter wrote:

The resident's association has been attempting to ensure a consistent and unified approach to planning, and or objections by residents, is achieved. To this end, we are monitoring any applications submitted to Meath County Council and considering any action as appropriate. Presently, we have objected to the proposed commercial development, as it has proposed 3 - 5 storey apartment blocks included.

Reading between the lines what they're really objecting to is the social housing the developer is obliged to build. QUOTE]

This is the interesting thing about these gated communities and the tossers who opt to live in these guilded cages.

On one hand they pay for the privillage of keeping the rest of society out of their little ghetto, but at the same time demand special treatment from councils when it comes to planning etc.

Personally, I feel that residents associations from gated communities should be barred from making submissions regarding planning, housing and transport policy. They decided to buy their way out of the system, so to hell with them.

stormkeeper

I can't help but pick up a slight whiff of hypocracy...

PandaMania

Like I said it, mainly loopers who get involved in Residents Groups along with the timid and hysterical, fearful, and easily manipulated folks afraid of their own shadows and get all tramautised and paranoid watching Crimeline would ever consider living in such gated communities. Hence to double standard. They are deeply irrational to begin with and think nothing true and always try to follow the pack.

Gandhi

Why is someone who is "worried by the traffic situation" complaining about a bus service? Wouldn't that that be the best way to relieve the traffic situation that has these people so brutally traumatised?

The council should tell her that in response to her complaints about traffic, they are expanding the bus service. Put up a bus stop with some port-a-potty's next to it right outside her house. Problem solved!!!

Sarsfield

A gated complex full of nice decent people would be a very safe place to park buses overnight too.

klong

"While the new bus has been welcomed by those in the estate fed up with the lack of parking in the train station, some residents feel their privacy has been infringed upon and are unhappy that the bus passes through the estate every day.

‘We didn’t know it was going to be introduced until the last minute,’ said Fiona Giligan of the Grange Rath residents’ association.

‘There are a lot of people who don’t like the bus coming into the estate, this is a private housing estate and there shouldn’t be buses coming through it. We pay a management fee to keep the estate and people at the front are unhappy with the traffic situation there.’"


I live close to Grange Rath. It's an estate still being built around 1.5/2 miles from Drogheda, and a mile away from the train station. There's no footpath out that far; people can walk, but its not as safe as having a footpath. They really need this bus service and this sounds (as someone as said) rather NIMBYism to me. If the bus can keep a few people off the road- and lets them sleep an extra 5/10 minutes in the mornings, all the better.

The estate is mainly populated by ex-pat Dubs who felt it would be wonderful to live out in the countryside. With no shops. And existing schools for little Jack and Niamh at bursting point. The place is like a warren.

It would be interesting to know how many people in GR are members of the association, and how many support thus outburst...

MorningStar

I am really surprised at the hostility towards this group. They don't want a large noisy bus traveling through what is probably a small housing estate. They never passed the maintainence to the local council so it is private property just like an apartment block grounds.
There are loads of these "gated" places around Dublin. Many don't actually have a gate that is closed. It is also not a new thing either as people had walls built between estates as early as 40s in Dublin.
If they don't want a bus that means more for people who do. I see no problem in wanting to keep their area a particular way as that is generally the fuinction of any resident association. Most people who own houses don't want an apartment block overlooking them and it devalues property.
Assuming reasons about the type of people living there are is a bigoted as the views heaped upon these people.

klong

This is an estate of over 300 houses, perhaps 500...

Sarsfield

MorningStar wrote:

Assuming reasons about the type of people living there are is a bigoted as the views heaped upon these people.

In fairness, most comments relate to the residents association, not the residents. Maybe even a couple of mavericks in the association.

The fact that there is a bus in the first place (I'll assume for the sake of argument that some people use it), suggests residents do want it.

The residents association may be a self-declared group comprising 3 people.

If it's a private estate then I presume there's a management company with elected officers who legally represent the owners (as opposed to the residents). Do they have an opinion?

A Dub in Glasgo

What would be the view if the residents of a private estate objected to a bus service from their estate to allevate parking conjestion at the train station whilest calling for taxpayers money to be spent increasing the amount of car parking spaces at the train station?

MorningStar

Sarsfield wrote:

In fairness, most comments relate to the residents association, not the residents. Maybe even a couple of mavericks in the association.

The fact that there is a bus in the first place (I'll assume for the sake of argument that some people use it), suggests residents do want it.

The residents association may be a self-declared group comprising 3 people.

If it's a private estate then I presume there's a management company with elected officers who legally represent the owners (as opposed to the residents). Do they have an opinion?

Resident associations are generally elected as opposed to just set up.

I think to suggest that there is some rebel element in the association dictating what happens around the area is really unlikely. If people wanted the bus they would over ride the association . It is unlikely this is 3 people acting on their own without support.

I think people are jumping to a lot of conclusions.

Gandhi

MorningStar wrote:

Resident associations are generally elected as opposed to just set up.

I think to suggest that there is some rebel element in the association dictating what happens around the area is really unlikely. If people wanted the bus they would over ride the association . It is unlikely this is 3 people acting on their own without support.

I think people are jumping to a lot of conclusions.

I don't agree with this. In practice, most people just couldn't be arsed going to things like residents' association meetings, unless there is talk of building a nuclear waste plant next door, so the few people that do go can take them over very quickly. Plus, and I know I am stereotyping now, but this is based on my own experience, often the kind of people who get involved in Resident's Associations etc. are exactly the kind of people who would present their own opinion to a newspaper, saying it was a consensus. Not that they are flat-out lying, it is just their self-righteous personality type. This is not always a bad thing - when it comes to keeping the grass cut and dog-waste off the footpath, (99% of a resident's associations job) these kind of personalities are exactly what gets the job done.

New York city council was going to put cycle lanes on a commercial street in Brooklyn a few years ago, but the head of the local merchants' association objected, saying that the businesses on the street were strongly against that. When the council sent people to speak to all the business owners, to find out exactly what their objections were, they discovered that the owners were over 90% in favour of putting cycle lanes in. The head of the merchants' association had just decided that she didn't like the idea, and assumed that nobody else would.

The last township I lived in, the school board's favourite trick was to schedule meetings at 11:00am on a Tuesday when there was anything controversial on the table, so that the only people who showed up were the retirees / bored housewives / anyone else who had feck-all else to do all day, that were already dominating the school board. This shut out anyone who wasn't part of the in-crowd, so a theoretically democratic organisation effectively became dominated by a very small group quite easily.

To address the noise issue, I don't know what kind of bus this is, but a shuttle bus to a commuter train station would hardly be a roaring double-decker monstrosity. The article mentioned that it only ran from around 7:00am-9:00am and 5:00pm-8:00pm, so it is not keeping anyone awake at night regardless of noise level.

The article said that the bus service was being run by a private company that charged per passenger. If nobody in this estate was taking the bus, that company would quickly cut the estate out of their route. The good old free market to the rescue.

The issues that I have with this situation is that the complaints being listed (noise and traffic) just flat out don't make sense. It is pretty obvious that this lady's feeling is that "bus=poor people", poor people do not belong in Grange Rath, therefore a bus does not belong in Grange Rath.

Occidental

I fondly remember a gated community near Ascot. A small estate, full of people who had come to claim their place in the countryside(and set about ruling it while they were there). After one too many run in's with the locals, a large chain and lock was placed across the gates. Took them over an hour to saw their way out to work in the morning. Funny enough the gates were left open after that and they were considerably less vocal in the community.

MorningStar

Gandhi wrote:

I don't agree with this. In practice, most people just couldn't be arsed going to things like residents' association meetings, unless there is talk of building a nuclear waste plant next door etc...

New York city council was going to put cycle lanes on a commercial street in Brooklyn a few years ago, etc...

Well this is Ireland! We don't have Townships and my experience of resident associations is no where near what you are suggesting. I think people are making huge assumptions and stereotyping.
You could be right but to base it on local American government is one big stretch.

positron

klong wrote:

This is an estate of over 300 houses, perhaps 500...

I would asy its more than that even - Wheaton Hall has 399 (or is it 299) houses, and GrangeRath would easily have a thousand houses there - and another 40 is on sale this weekend (final phase).

I live nearby and I know a few who own houses and rent/live in GrangeRath, and being the "working class" at the back of the estate (apartments, semi d’s etc) they think the shuttle service is a great idea – Starting a bus service from the entrance of the estate is no good to them, they are at least a mile away from the entrance to the estate - this place is huge! And for those who live near the entrance (detached, double fronted, million-dollar houses), I would imagine, they are there because of M1 than railway line!

If anything, Drogheda needs more shuttle buses to the station on peak hours – parking spaces are all taken up by around 7:15 every morning!!

Gandhi

MorningStar wrote:

Well this is Ireland! We don't have Townships and my experience of resident associations is no where near what you are suggesting. I think people are making huge assumptions and stereotyping.
You could be right but to base it on local American government is one big stretch.

My point was that it is possible for leadership in even small, local associations to be out of touch with their members' needs. The examples I chose were extreme, but I was making a point.

It is possible that the residents association involved here is more democratic, but then why is a residents' association opposing a bus service that serves the residents it supposedly represents?

The lady quoted mentioned traffic as a concern, but traffic would surely be increased if the bus service stopped and the bus passengers had to hop into their cars instead.

She also mentioned noise, but the article stated that the buses only run at rush hour, and as I mentioned (admittedly assuming again) I can't imagine that a taxi company is using a very large bus to provide a shuttle service to a train station.

I find it hard to believe that the residents that do use the bus all filed into a meeting and willingly agreed that their rush-hour ride to a train station with limited parking should be done away with.

klong

positron wrote:

I would asy its more than that even - Wheaton Hall has 399 (or is it 299) houses, and GrangeRath would easily have a thousand houses there - and another 40 is on sale this weekend (final phase).

I live nearby and I know a few who own houses and rent/live in GrangeRath, and being the "working class" at the back of the estate (apartments, semi d’s etc) they think the shuttle service is a great idea – Starting a bus service from the entrance of the estate is no good to them, they are at least a mile away from the entrance to the estate - this place is huge! And for those who live near the entrance (detached, double fronted, million-dollar houses), I would imagine, they are there because of M1 than railway line!

If anything, Drogheda needs more shuttle buses to the station on peak hours – parking spaces are all taken up by around 7:15 every morning!!

I haven't been there for a while, but I'd agree with your figures, easily 700 seeing as it goes all the way to the railway line.

There's supposed to be €1 million houses built there (those at the front went for around €500,000 as far as I recall)

There was talk at one stage of a railway station being built on the north of the town and think that was all it was, "talk"...

PandaMania

It is not just Grange Rath and City Centre traders and Bankers in the Docklands...

"The original plan had the light rail some how entering Hoboken around Marin Blvd. and Observer Highway, and running east along Observer Hwy. on a private right of way (which is now the Observer Hwy. parking lanes) into the area around Hoboken Bus Terminal. This infinitely more useful routing was of course shot down by Hoboken NIMBY's who now complain the light rail isn't very useful or accessible. "

http://www.nycsubway.org/nyc/hudson-bergen/

Reminds me of the Rossport 5 supporters who also complain about the West of Ireland having no gas supply. Should be some fun and games from the NIMBYS when the Interconnector, Metro and Luas extentions get going. Christ help us!

murphaph

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

What would be the view if the residents of a private estate objected to a bus service from their estate to allevate parking conjestion at the train station whilest calling for taxpayers money to be spent increasing the amount of car parking spaces at the train station?

Good point, in fact, should these assholes be allowed park their cars at the station at all if they are being offered an alternative that others who have to drive to the station don't have? Obviously it'd be imposible to ban them short of stamping NIMBY ASSHOLE across their forehead. I HATE NIMBYs. Fingal are currently finishing off a residential care centre for elderly people just across from my house. It was built on scrubland formerly used by youths for drinking and burnng things, but when the NIMBYs round here found out about the council's plans for a 'centre' they all assumed it was a drugs treatment centre and complained. They didn't even bother to educate themselves about the project before demanding it be built elsewhere, turns out the council hae built a well designed building with character and have removed an anti-social behaviour area in the process, can't go wrong with that.