A64 X2 Advice please

pH

So many questions, please jump in if you can help ...

Here's the initial list from Komplett ..

http://www.komplett.ie/k/shoplist.asp?mode=receive&si=289169&su=12CC9D61-56F5-4F0C-97C8-1687280FC7E6

Main use is as a home development box (Java/jboss), PC gaming, some video ripping and general media stuff. As my employer is paying for this portion, the bones need to come from Komplett as they're comfortable buying from them. I'm going to get an external watercooling system, so I'll only want one Graphics card. Main requirement is to get this thing as powerful, stable and as quiet as humanly possible.

My main questions:

Is the 7800GTX worth it, would I be better dropping to a 7800GT and spending the money elsewhere. Same with the X2 4800+, could the money saved from dropping to a 4600+ be better spent?

On memory, are there limitations on getting 2Gb running at DDR400? What about 4Gb? Some manuals seem to imply that filling some/all slots with SS or DS memory will result in a max of DDR333? Any recomendations on memory? If I'm going for 2Gb, are 2x1024 better or worse than 4x512?

Mainboard? MSI or maybe the DFI lanparty? I don't really want to add a sound card so I would like a MB with decent OB sound. Given I don't want SLi and overclocking isn't a huge priority is there anything else I should be looking at?

I like the idea of one of these modular power supplies, any recomendations, is the tagan OK?

Is a 10,000 RPM raptor worth getting to put the OS and swapfile on? If I stay with 32bit XP is 4Gb memory worth getting (will this eliminate any disk swapping)?

Anyways, and comments or advice appreciated.

Jammer

OCUK are doing BFG7800GTOC's for €330...so i'd say buy two

DFi and Asus seem to be the pick of the picky people. Both are sli though. Don't let that stop you though, even if you wont use it, they're still good boards, and leaves your options open in the futute.

Tagan are grand.

2GB is fine for anything now, some may even consider it overkill. 2 x 1024mb would appear to be the sensible option, as again, it leaves your options open in the future.

10k raptor is worth it, if you can afford it. Make sure to get a 200/250GB disk too, obviously, for files and stuff.

K.O.Kiki

Going by CPC (best magazine IMO):

• Keep the processor if you really need it (drop to 4400+ if not)
• Keep the RAM; 2x1Gb > 4x512Mb (plus it takes up less space & creates less heat, I would think)
• Go with the Asus A8N-Sli Deluxe; unless you really, really like like messing around in the BIOS -- if you do, DFI suits you, sir And don't bother about the A8N-SLi Premium -- you're just getting a passive Northbridge cooler AFAIK, and a few more BIOS options.
• Geforce 7800GT suits you fine; all makes seem to perform & OC the same as well -- get the cheapest one there is :rolleyes:
• Look for a store that can sell you a Seasonic 600W PSU -- in the CPC PSU test, the Tagan's had slightly iffy 12V rails. FSP are another great manufacturer.
  Sadly, Komplett don't seem to stock either make!
• The Samsung Spinpoint P120S 250Gb SATA2 is a superior harddrive to the Western Digital. Plus, you shouldn''t ever really need the HDD anti-vibration kit -- it's very quiet!
• Case choice is up to you

That's my 2cents.
*edit*might as well look for a card with lifetime warranty (I think BFG aren't the only ones offering one). Check out manufacturer's sites, and happy OC'ing!!

ShiverinEskimo

Dont bother with the high end CPU - Pay the 555 for the 4400+ 2MB and set the FSB to 215 giving 2.366Ghz - I did this yesterday and after 12 hours of Prime95 and a few iterations of Super PI she is solid at only 34Mhz short of the 4800+ all with stock cooling without going near voltage settings.

With Watercooling (or just a very good heatpipe heatsink and fan) you'll get well over the 4800+ speeds thus saving yourself about 400 quid which you can put towards another 7800 GT and run in SLi if you really need the power or just buy the GTX - its pricey and prob not worth the extra but it is a savage card.

Let me tell you tho my rig is running sweetly (only new) and apart from the ram (1GB) seems to what you described..i'm just waiting on a better Fan+HS to push the CPU a little more

pH

Excellent suggestions , I've changed the order to what's been suggested so far - thanks.

I've a budget of 2,000 ex vat (about 2,400 inc) from my employer, and it really has to be spent at Komplett. I suppose with a lot of hassle I could get them to buy somewhere else, but picking and choosing from a number of different online retailers is out, it would just be far too much hassle to track/coordinate for them.

Any money saved on a component needs to be spent somewhere else, so I guess that dropping from 4800+ to 4400+ would then allow me buy a pair of 7800GTs and SLI them. There's no real point just saving money, as if it comes in cheaper they just spend less. I have monitors already, but am tempted to add a raptor drive.

These changes seem to push the money more in a gaming direction, while I'd be amazed if the 7800GTX by iteself couldn't handle games for the next few years, and if the motherboard is SLI i can always throw another one in out of my pocket money if I feel like it.

I'm going to buy a water cooling system in addition, the added hassle of 2 GPUs to put blocks on seemed too much. The machine will be used for games, but its main use during the day will be J2EE builds, running an IDE, jboss, mysql etc. Any comments on the Zalman Reservator?

What about onboard sound cards, the MSI motherboard has a Creative labs SBLive, and the DFI one has the Karajan Audio, whereas the recomended ASUS seems to be just the usual Realtek. I know most people here are into overclocking, but it really isn't my priority, so would I be better with anothe MB, given I want reasonable sound without shelling out on another sound card?

If I'm watercooling the GPU and CPU with the Zalman reservator, what else can be done to keep fannoise down and still keep the rest of the box cool (memory/disks/chipset).?

thanks all.

ShiverinEskimo

On that note - if you plan to overclock and go SLi at all then go for a Lanparty - this one will suit your budget without going over the top..Fantastic board with a strong bios and excellent for overclocking

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=310811&view=detailed

This is the next step up from the one I have and has true SLi support...

If you want to cool the whole lot of the comp you should look at the CPU/VGA/Chipset kits on komplett - but I'm no expert on watercooling - post on the tweaking/modding forum for that..

K.O.Kiki

Best money spent: Get an new Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi The vanilla Xtreme Music edition is enough; forget about any others, and get yourself a nice set of 2.1 speakers or headphones.

jesus_thats_gre

K.O.Kiki wrote:

Best money spent: Get an new Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi The vanilla Xtreme Music edition is enough; forget about any others, and get yourself a nice set of 2.1 speakers or headphones.

Or get an Audigy for half the price and not notice the slightest difference in sound quality...

K.O.Kiki

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Or get an Audigy for half the price and not notice the slightest difference in sound quality...

(Going by CPC again) The X-Fi is miles better than the Audigy ZS! Proper 3D-effects from 2 speakers. More sound channels. Etc, etc, etc... look, it has to rock. How else could you justify its cost?

jesus_thats_gre

Are you off your head?

K.O.Kiki

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Are you off your head?

Yes.

pH

For some reason Komplett are out of any decent 2x1024Mb memory, so I was considering 4 512 DDRs. However all the manuals for the nforce4 MBs say that if you put 4 banks in then it will only run at DDR400 if they are single-side, 4 x Double sided will give you DDR333.

I guess that all 512 modules are Double sided, but its hard to tell, anyone know for sure?

Jammer

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Are you off your head?

I usualy agree with you, but you're wrong this time. The X-Fi sound is streets ahead of the Audigy. Just listen to it...It will be in PCIMIA form for you soon

jozi

How can you get 3D sound (which i understand as being sound from all around me) from only 2 speakers?

As for the mobo, there was a asus recomended above with passive cooling id got for it, the small north bridge fans tend to start screaming after some time or just replace it straight away your self. I got a dfi lan party nf4 and have to say the nb fan is quiet, dont know how long before it starts to scream.

Jammer

jozi, through echo's and clever algorythms. Obviously your not going to get exact 5.1 precision, but it seriously does trick you into thinking its 3D sound when headphones are on. The 24bit Crystalizer is good too.

Anyone coming to Midlans can hear for themselves, we'll have our PC there to demo it, with a decent set of headphones.

jesus_thats_gre

Jammer wrote:

I usualy agree with you, but you're wrong this time. The X-Fi sound is streets ahead of the Audigy. Just listen to it...It will be in PCIMIA form for you soon

I still maintain that the differences will be next to nothing unless you have very very high end speakers or headphones.. The majority of us wouldn't even notice the difference then..

Jammer

Well my headphones are far from high-end, i think they were in the region of €50 - €60, but they give off great sound and have a great range.

I would have thought most people that listen to music have a nice pair of headphones, esp. people who use their computers at night...

Mutant_Fruit

Fine, the headphones are good, but for 95% of everyday tasks does that x-fi really make a noticeable difference? I'm a big fan of integrated soundcards myself They're free and work. Thats good enough for me.

My games work fine, my mp3's are sharp and crystal clear, so i don't need a fancy schmancy €100 (or more) soundcard. Might be useful if you were big into recording etc and needed digital input/output sockets or whatever.

EDIT: And give me back my face! (meaning the avatar :P)

astrofool

fans of integrated soundcards are clearly tone deaf.

K.O.Kiki

astrofool wrote:

fans of integrated soundcards are clearly tone deaf.

Integrated soundchips. And seconded.

Sadly, it's all that's on my iBook, but at least the PC has a decent-ish soundcard.

Oh, and 3D-sound from 2 speakers has been around in 1 form or another for quite a while.
I still remember using stereo speakers, and still discerning the difference in distance and direction.
In TIE Fighter:D

Now, imagine LucasArts got off their arse & remade it... Mmmm...

Oh, and if pH, if you're still around -- if you can't get the memory from Komplett, can you ask your employer if he'll let you buy it from Crucial.com or Shop4memory.com? Because you do want 2x1Gb, not 5x512mb.
Oh, and I'm not totally sure, but 1x7800GTX >= 2x7800GT ... plus cheaper, quieter (1 fan vs 2; and i think the X's one is better designed), and less heat! So don't bother with SLi yet -- may as well wait until you can get a 2nd 7800GTX when you need it... say, in 4 years time;)

Cuddlesworth

pH wrote:

For some reason Komplett are out of any decent 2x1024Mb memory, so I was considering 4 512 DDRs. However all the manuals for the nforce4 MBs say that if you put 4 banks in then it will only run at DDR400 if they are single-side, 4 x Double sided will give you DDR333.

I guess that all 512 modules are Double sided, but its hard to tell, anyone know for sure?

Dual cores have 2 memory controllers, so this is not really relevant apart from future upgrade problems

Ratchet

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

I still maintain that the differences will be next to nothing unless you have very very high end speakers or headphones.. The majority of us wouldn't even notice the difference then..

have OK headphones and have to say XFi rulez with CMSS Headphones settings, also great for divx movies where stereo track is upmixed to something similar to 5.1 but it is miles better then just having to listen to orinary mp3 track.

astrofool

Ratchet wrote:

Dual cores have 2 memory controllers, so this is not really relevant apart from future upgrade problems

Dual core athlon's only have one memory controller, the same dual channel one on the non dual cores, so the same limits apply ram combination wise.

You're better off with 2x1gig, although 4x512 would do if you're stuck.

Might be worth getting 2x512 for now, and then 2x1gig in the future.