Flatmate having possible breakdown - need advice

LegacyUser

Howdy all, first-time poster, long-time reader etc etc. Unregged for this as I don't want the people involved to be identifiable.

About a month ago I moved into a house with 3 friends, and within the last 3 or 4 days things have taken a turn for the very strange. I was expecting things to calm down a bit from pretty much constant partying over the last month once the honeymood period wore off, but nothing this bad.

Basically, the four of us have a mutual sporting interest. One of the guys (A)is seeing the coach, which hasn't caused any tension until about 3 days ago, when guy B had a bit of a disagreement over a group meeting with the coach. It seemed to sort itself out over a day, but a day later we've found out that B has, as far as we can tell, completely lost his grip on reality. He has been sending abusive emails to the coach, ringing the coach's flatmates in the middle of the night and making no sense to them, and leaving nasty notes around the house aimed at the coach (who stays over sometimes since she's involved with A). He is also convinced that the founder of our group, who he has never met, is going to get involved to "resolve the problem" - although the exact details of what the problem is are a mystery to us, as whenever we ask, B gets upset and says we are making him repeat himself. He has repeatedly stated that he thinks the coach is trying to kill him, to the point where he asked to sleep in my room because he didn't feel safe alone in his room.

(Having known the coach well for going on two years, it's quite safe to say that she's done nothing to cause this sort of reaction)

Now, from the coach's point of view this is very obvious harrasment, and I'm genuinely surprised that she hasn't yet reported B to the guards. However, from talking to B it is very obvious that something is wrong. He's a bit of a stoner but hasn't been smoking that much lately (as far as I know) unless it's been on the sly - but he has been ill and not sleeping much over the last week.

The situation as it stands now is that none of us feel particularly safe or comfortable at home, and B is very likely to lose his job and/or have a harrasment complaint made against him in the next couple of days. At the same time, we're still friends of his and want to try and help him sort out whatever has caused this problem, but as far as we can tell it's going to require some form of counselling or therapy.

Has anyone had a situation like this? What steps can we take to try and get him some sort of help? (We've tried and failed to talk to him about it ourselves; he doesn't seem to realise just how much he's scared some of the people involved) Specifically, is there some way of getting him referred to a counsellor, therapist or psychologist without having to go through the Gardai first?

pdunno

It does sound like he's losing his grip on reality, haven't encountered anything like this before. I would imagine the first step would be get him to see his GP and he could probably make a recommendation as the best way to take it from there. People who become delusional genuinely belive that people/world are conspiring against them. Although it would seem absolutely crazy to everyone else I am sure he thinks that all this is happening.

Smoking dope can exagerate or highten mental illness so maybe this has something to do with it. Maybe if he's been smoking a fair bit over a sustained period of time it has ****ed his head up a bit, so best bet I'd say is to have him see his GP.

Kêrmêttê

I've had experience of this before.
If you try and involve yourself, he possibly will consider you to be part of the conspiracy against him.
Inform his family that he's gone off the rails a bit and you don't know what to do.
Let them handle the situation... he will more than likely trust them more and be more willing to go along with what they suggest.
Don't get yourself too involved... situations like this can become quite dangerous when the person in question is very unpredictable.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the replies so far guys

Unfortunately, I'm already involved in so far as B currently considers me to be "the only person keeping him sane" (his exact words). I would like to bow out and let someone who knows him better handle this, but he has no family in this country. We don't know any way of contacting his family.

I would like to get him to go to his GP, but we have no idea how to get him to do this without alienating him.

Shivvv

Kêrmêtt&#234 wrote:

I've had experience of this before.
If you try and involve yourself, he possibly will consider you to be part of the conspiracy against him.
Inform his family that he's gone off the rails a bit and you don't know what to do.
Let them handle the situation... he will more than likely trust them more and be more willing to go along with what they suggest.
Don't get yourself too involved... situations like this can become quite dangerous when the person in question is very unpredictable.

I'd go along with this advice having had two similar experiences like this with my friends. Its really scary whena person looses a grip on reality like that. I know we had reservations about talking to the friends' in question's families because drugs were involved - but in the long-run it doesn't really matter because families will (most of the time) forgive anything like this and just concentrate on getting the person better. As well as your friend trusting family members more, they have more rights in terms of getting him seen by someone who can help than you do.

Its a hard thing to do though - phone up a friend's parent who you may not know at all and tell them you're very worried about their child....

Both of my friends came safely out the other end of their experiences too, so it can be worked with and sorted!

Unfortunately this is one of those situations where you really have a responsibility to do something. I think the worst thing you can do is nothing.....

Sifo

Ok thats pretty serious alright...

He's gonna need all the help he can get. Being a bit of a stoner myself I understand the effects it can have on a person, although it can differ from one person to another. Personally i can keep the paranoia at bay but i know some people that have trouble doing so. You and your flatmates are going to have to sit your friend down and get this all out in the open. I realise that he thinks he's repeating himself but just let him know that you want to sort this out now as it's beginning to worry you. If your friend who is seeing the coach is there ensure that he remains calm. He may need to see his local GP on advise on getting some further help.

The worst thing to do is do nothing, in most cases you will find mental illness is hereditary or caused by a hard upbringing so I don't think getting his family involved at this point is a good idea.

Good luck

SparkyLarks

Sifo wrote:

Ok thats pretty serious alright...



In most cases you will find mental illness is hereditary or caused by a hard upbringing so I don't think getting his family involved at this point is a good idea.

Good luck

Sorry but I must disagree with this comment. If the mental illness is hereditary that doesn't mean the parents are bonkers. A lot of people who are mentally ill, deal with their illness and lead full lives. They probably know and are familiar with the illness and may even have delt with it before, they will know who to contact.

AS for mentlal illness being caused by a hard upbringingng, I don't see how a hard upbringing can cause chemicals in a persons brain to become unbalanced, and I don;t know of any research which indicates this.. A incidents in childhood may trigger episodes in someone who is mentallty ill. Again the parents of this person may know what these incidents were, they might not be to blame, it could have been a sibling or bullying at school.

The parents might not care, or might even be bonkers, but they probably will be very soncerned about their son. They may even know that their son has a particular condition. They will know so much information about thier son that even a very close frind cannot, they will be of immense help if you can enlist their help. And in most cases they will be only too happy to help.

P.S. of course it might be wise to use a bit of caution withthe parents if you don;t know them and don;t tell them too much too fast.

Miss Fluff

What_to_do? wrote:

Thanks for the replies so far guys

Unfortunately, I'm already involved in so far as B currently considers me to be "the only person keeping him sane" (his exact words). I would like to bow out and let someone who knows him better handle this, but he has no family in this country. We don't know any way of contacting his family.

I would like to get him to go to his GP, but we have no idea how to get him to do this without alienating him.

Ooooh, alarm bells rang when I read that you are deemed to be "the only person keeping him sane". This is NOT a role you want to take on. I shared a house with a guy in the UK who, after sustained partying, suddenly flipped and displayed very similar signs to what you described, only he went missing for 2 days and returned a gibbering wreck. We phoned his parents (who incidentally forgave him on the Class A score so don't feel you're "ratting" on him or anything) who brought him back to London where he was diagnosed as schizophrenic. This is not a medical board obviously so I'm not partaking in amateur diagnostics here but his behaviour is potentially dangerous and he needs to see someone as soon as possible. If you can't locate a family member or someone close to him, I would advise urging him to go to a GP on the pretext that he is not sleeping. I would pre-empt his visit with a phonecall from your good self to describe his behaviour and leave it in the very capable hands of a medical professional. You are not an expert and it's terribly unfair to have this kind of pressure on you. Advise him how to go forward and take a step back mate. Good Luck

Blub2k4

If you feel he is a danger to himself or others speak to a GP and they can possibly have him committed, it seems harsh but it is sometimes the only thing that can be done.
Ring his GP and discuss options, the guards too as he is displaying threatening behaviour.
My mother had a good friend of our family committed at one point for his own good, it was shortly after his brothers suicide and he didn't help himself with his constant smoking, to the extent where his stoner friends all stopped skinning up around him for fear he would ask for a drag and go off on one again.

Act sooner rather than later, before this escalates, it's called tough love.

Sifo

SparkyLarks wrote:

Sorry but I must disagree with this comment. If the mental illness is hereditary that doesn't mean the parents are bonkers. A lot of people who are mentally ill, deal with their illness and lead full lives. They probably know and are familiar with the illness and may even have delt with it before, they will know who to contact.

Not always but hear ya go,

Heredity (genetics): Many mental illnesses run in families, suggesting that the illnesses may be passed on from parents to children through genes. Genes contain instructions for the function of each cell in the body and are responsible for how we look, act, and think, etc. But, just because your mother or father may have a mental illness doesn't mean you will have one. Hereditary just means that you are more likely to get the condition than if you didn't have an affected family member. Experts believe that many mental conditions are linked to problems in multiple genes -- not just one, as with many diseases -- which is why a person inherits a susceptibility to a mental disorder, but doesn't always develop the condition. The disorder itself occurs from the interaction of these genes and other factors -- such as psychological trauma and environmental stressors -- which can influence, or trigger, the illness in a person who has inherited a susceptibility to it.

Sifo

SparkyLarks wrote:

AS for mentlal illness being caused by a hard upbringingng, I don't see how a hard upbringing can cause chemicals in a persons brain to become unbalanced, and I don;t know of any research which indicates this.. A incidents in childhood may trigger episodes in someone who is mentallty ill. Again the parents of this person may know what these incidents were, they might not be to blame, it could have been a sibling or bullying at school.

Psychological trauma: Some mental illnesses may be triggered by psychological trauma suffered as a child, such as severe emotional, physical or sexual abuse; a significant early loss, such as the loss of a parent; and neglect.

SparkyLarks

Sifo. I don;t understand the point you are trying to make.

you posts are exactly what I was trying to say. better put admittedly.

I know that mental illness is often heridetary and that is way the op's frinds parents might be able to help. they may have knowledge of the illness either because they themselves have it or one of their family does or the Op's friend may already have been diagnosed as having it.

If in this case the OP's friends doesn't have a mental illness heridetory or otherwise I'm sure the parents would probably a)like to know and b) be eager to help.

you second post again I don;t understand what your point is.


"Psychological trauma: Some mental illnesses may be triggered by psychological trauma suffered as a child, such as severe emotional, physical or sexual abuse; a significant early loss, such as the loss of a parent; and neglect."

but I do agree, in fact I said it earlier

again if this is the case the Op's friends parents may know what this trigger event was and will be able to help.


I did forget to say that the OP should try to get his friend to see a doctor , with his parents help or otherwise.

To the OP, if you don't want to talk to your frinds parents does he have a brother or sister who you could talk to?

Sifo

my point is there are many types of mental illness, the ones i pointed out are just a couple which may be the right ones maybe not.

above you said;
"Sorry but I must disagree with this comment. If the mental illness is hereditary that doesn't mean the parents are bonkers."

I never said they were bonkers...

Anyways

I agree with most people here and instead of rambling on I'll suggest he sees a GP, but also not to go to his parents "at this point"... personally i'd want my friends to rally around me..

pdunno

I agree, best bet is GP. No need to get parents involved at this stage. Could even make things worse if he feels everyone - inlcuding his parents - are against him.

Could be difficult though, seen as he is acting so irrationally, how do you get him to listen to reason?

LegacyUser

Miss fluff : alarm bells rang for me as soon as I heard him say that as well. Then again, they've not stopped ringing all week

SparkyLarks : unfortunately while I do know B has a sister, both she and is parents are abroad and do not, as far as I know, speak English. In any case, none of us have any idea how to get in touch with them.

I've discussed this to an extent with the other guys in the house and we're going to try and all sit down and have a proper talk about things; see if we can convince him to at least see a doctor to get the all-clear. As far as I know nobody has mentioned anything about the potential harrasment charges to him, but we don't want to use them as a threat - aggression is the worst possible tactic to use, I think. But unless we stand firm with him he's going to carry on as he has done today, thinking that what he has done is not only acceptable but the correct course of action.

Kêrmêttê

Someone who is acting irrationaly, irratic or in a manner that suggests a mental breakdown, is just as likely to turn against ANYONE, even the person that they say is keeping them sane.

From my own experience the person's ideas, thoughts and feelings change from minute to minute.
The nice helpful friend one minute can be the anti-christ the next.
This is not a situation to dive headlong into when you don't fully understand the medical facts, treatments and consequences.
You, the helper, could end up totally out of your depth and also end up endangering your own mental health due to stress etc.

Inform the family or his very close friends. He needs a large support network.
This is not the type of problem one person can take on single handed.
Most likely he will need to be talked into going to seek medical help... who better to do this than his own family? They will also be more willing to stand by him 24/7 and not ditch him when the going gets tough. If needs be, and I have seen this too, a family can take turns looking after the person in question... work out shifts of a few hours each so there's constant 24 hour support.

This caring situation is in NO WAY something for one person to deal with alone.
Get the family involved... it's in his own best interest! and yours!

[Jackass]

Ok, a few points.

1/ This is incredalby serious, and like somebody said, the worst thing you can do is nothing.

2/ the fact that you can't contact his familly is a problem, and I would suggest you find a way, clues or any info you can get (letters, address book, mobile phone).

3/ Smoking weed has varying effect on the brain, and in approximatly 1 in 25 people have a mental vunrability to psychosis.
This is a more serious form of schizophrenia, because the voices in their head torment them, enrage them, and instruct them to do things..which can lead from psychosis to psychotic.
Although not medical fact, this is as all but proven link between the substance and disease. (like smoking suspected to cause cancer in 70's etc.)
He seems stable at the moment, and has early synthms such as intense paranoina.

I would suggest for your own sake, and his, to immedialy contact your GP about medical health experts, and how to adress the issue. It is possible the guards will be called in just so he can be assesd, and possibly commited to a hospital for treatmnet...the early this happens, the greater the chance of a full recovery.
But don't worry about the drugs etc., as an abolute blind eye is turned to somebody with mental health issues, so there would never be any question of him being arrested or anything.
In the event of him being diagnosed as mentally unstable and a danger to himself or others (which tbh i think he will be diagnosed as) it's important you're able to contact his familly, so talk to your GP or the guards about that too.

Here is some info:

Click 1
Click 2
Click 3

Also, I think you should link this thread to this forum. It's an american psychology forum with actual psychologists online who can respond to you, and arefar more qualified to help and advise you then I.

Anyway, I hope it all works out and please keep us informed of his progress.

Good Luck.

MarkR

Just on the fact that your friends family are overseas and don't speak english, I read recently of a large percentage increase in the suicide rate of young people living in "foreign" countries. The info was related to polish guys in this case, but I can guess it's across the board.

A feeling of isolation, being apart from your family, lots of immigrants doing long or late hours (night work can affect some people badly) and having little money/

A chat may look like an intervention, you'd know best though. Contacting the gp with the pretense of lack of sleep may be a good idea.

Victor

I don't think anyone here can make a diagnosis other than something very profound is happening and your friend is very afraid. There is a risk of frightened people doing inapproriate things.

If you are in college, talk to the counselling service / foreign student office / his tutor / chaplain or similar, to be honest over the weekend, get anyone you can to get these people to contact you.

Talk to a doctor and get him to see the doctor ASAP. Getting him to go because of his sleeping pattern might be more acceptable for him.

If you can't get a GP over the weekend, talk to your local hospital or Accident & Emergency and they will be able to put you in contact with someone.

Feel free to PM me.

---

You should talk to someone aswell, a problem shared is a problem halved.

nesf

Get him to a GP, a counciller or similar. Seriously. You do not want this to be left fester. People flipping out like this need immediate professional help. This is the only thing you should do in my honest opinion.


People are making way too many assumptions on this thread about mental illness. The source etc does not matter. The person who will figure that out is a professional.

Discussing the heriditary nature of mental illness is pointless. His parents should be told about this. Preferably simultaneously with him seeing a professional. Even if they also are mentally ill, they deserve to know that there's something wrong. He is their child after all.


The other thing that you should do is to try and get the others to understand what's happening. If they start attacking him etc then it could get worse. That would be bad for all concerned. It would just fuel his paranoia.

Edit: This might help you a little. I went through pretty much exactly what you are describing about 3 years ago. I was not in a good place and my paranoia and delusions were extreme. When I finally got help, I recovered fairly quickly. All your friend needs is the proper care. It will help him a lot. He will get over this. He just needs a little help right now.

LegacyUser

Thanks again for the replies; after a bit of discussion with the people involved it looks like we all agree on the best solution - ie getting him to see a doctor. There has been talk about getting the police involved, but we're trying to avoid it unless there's no other way to find a solution. I think it would be much better if we can get him to agree to see a doctor than to just force him to, as this would avoid him feeling that his friends want nothing to do with him.

I've ended up talking to B at some length today, and he seems to be realising that people are worried about him. He's mentioned himself that he thinks something might be wrong, which is promising - so we talked about going to a doctor and I think he's sold on the idea. I don't want to get my hopes up though, because it's been like talking to a different person each day this week. Still, it's an improvement on yesterday's situation.

There's also been a bit of luck - I found out someone else in the group knows him from his home country, so we should be able to get in touch with his family if we need to. The first priority right now is to try and make sure he sees his GP as soon as possible to figure out what's going on.

Unfortunately there's also fallout from this in that, horrible as it sounds, the other three of us in the house are feeling very unsure about what's going to happen going forward in terms of living arrangements. I know that the very last thing B needs right now is to find himself looking for a new place to live, but the other two guys are extremely nervous about how things will be once everything settles down, and it's safe to say they can't go back to how they were before. On the other hand, having had a couple of friends in the past who've been diagnosed for a couple of (relatively minor, if such a term can be used) mental illnesses, I'm willing to see how things pan out with a doctor's visit and hopefully subsequent treatment before I make a decision. Hopefully we can work something out.

I will keep ye posted. Thanks again for the input so far.

LegacyUser

Update:

Well, after a long long day he has been admitted (of his own will, thank God) to an emergency psychiatric ward. He had another sleepless night and was acting even more unhinged this morning, but he agreed after a bit of persuasion to see a doctor and eventually (after being sent to the wrong hospital initially) we got to see someone who signed him in for a few days of observation. He'll be seeing a specialist on Monday and hopefully we can move on from there.

Once again, thanks to everyone for your input, it's been very helpful. The last few days have been very stressful but at least things are moving in the right direction now.

LegacyUser

The saga continues, unfortunately.

I've been away for a week and therefore well out of this whole situation, but I've come back to find things as follows:

Flatmate 1 has been regularly visiting the patient and says he seems to be doing well.

Flatmate 2 has made some pathetic excuses for not visiting the patient, and says that he is still completely mental (based on a couple of messages he has received). He is apparently unwilling to contemplate anything other than his own interests and those of his girlfriend, who is now saying she will not come near our house if the patient comes back.

Flatmate 1 and I are agreed that we want to help the patient get back to normal as easily as possible, and want to keep his home environment stable.

Flatmate 2 appears to want to have the patient kicked out of the house.

I'm of the opinion to tell flatmate 2 that, if push comes to shove, he can like it or lump it. Just wondering if anyone's had similar housing problems with issues like this and how ye resolved them?

annR

Flatmate 2 might be genuinely afraid. I guess it's for the health professionals to say whether the patient is actually a potential danger to anyone. If he isn't and gets better, Flatmate 2 will have to deal with that but it might be difficult to get trust back or feel safe. Flatmate 2 might ultimately want to move out if he doesn't want to live with patient, I don't think patient should have to move out. If he's still ill he should be kept in hospital / treated by pro, if he isn't ill he should be able to return no problem.

dudara

I'm concerned about the posts on this thread concerning the origins of mental illness. I would prefer if people kept such information or speculation to themselves, and focussed on the relevant topic of offering advice to the OP.

chump

dudara you're a doc (am I wrong?), is this a typical pattern of budding paranoid schizophrenia ?

ek942

You can't really blame 2 and the girlfriend for wanting to avoid this guy.However I agree that if anyone should move out it shouldn't be the person who is ill.The last thing he needs now is to be moving around looking for somewhere to go.After getting professional help he will need a stable environment and people he knows and trusts around him.I hope he gets through it o.k.

Beruthiel

chump wrote:

dudara you're a doc (am I wrong?), is this a typical pattern of budding paranoid schizophrenia ?

this is not a medical forum and I do not what amateur speculation on what he may or may not have, stick to the topic of this thread or there will be bannings!

dudara

chump wrote:

dudara you're a doc (am I wrong?), is this a typical pattern of budding paranoid schizophrenia ?

I'm a soon to be Doctor of Electrical Engineering, which really doesn't qualify me for squat, never mind diagnosis. And even if I was a medical doctor, I wouldn't offer any diagnosis over a public forum