Stupid ban

ianmc38

Hi, i recently was taking part in a thread in the FS General section. Now, i posted a reasonable offer and explained why i offered that amount. Next a user started posting about how great the item for sale was, links to similar items and made up prices for similar items. I then played the role of the devils advocate and explained why this users points were invalid. next thing i know i get banned for thread spoiling. I think it is extremely unfair that people are allowed to post uninformed garbage about a product that is for sale yet when an educated post to the contrary is posted i suddenly feel the force of the banhammer in a forum where i take part regularly.

perhaps thread spoiling and posting links to other items at different prices should be extended to those who feel they have to advocate an items price by linking to a redundant and out of date link on the web that doesn't reflect an items current RRP.

billy the squid

1) It states in the charter of the FS forums that the person interested in purchasing an item is advised to do their own research before deciding whether or not they are getting value for money by buying the item being offered. The seller is under no obligation to do research for those looking to buy these items. What the seller is asked to do is to provide photographs of an item they are selling, the condition of the item, a guidline proce, and transaction details. (where the item can be sent/collected, and what payment method is preferred)

2) Telling someone that one can get something somewhere else cheaper is in breach of the FS forums charter. This is clearly defined as "thread spoiling."

it would also be a good idea to link to the thread in which you were banned. you might have to log out of boards.ie to find it.

ferdi

billy the squid wrote:

2) Telling someone that one can get something somewhere else cheaper is in breach of the FS forums charter. This is clearly defined as "thread spoiling.".

thats stupid! so people can charge stupid amounts for an item and someone, who may not be totally clued in on what the realistic price of the item is, ends up paying it because no one can say thats its priced too high! boards should protect the buyer too, this isnt ebay. this rule is fecilitating greedy ****s out to rip people off.

Pacifico

Glad you got banned for that.

Thread spoiling on the FS forums is very annoying...

Gilgamesh

funny, according to the FS charter, quoting said charter is also bannable.
err.... do I get banned now too?

Beruthiel

Gilgamesh wrote:

do I get banned now too?

yes...

billy the squid

ferdi wrote:

thats stupid! so people can charge stupid amounts for an item and someone, who may not be totally clued in on what the realistic price of the item is, ends up paying it because no one can say thats its priced too high! boards should protect the buyer too, this isnt ebay. this rule is fecilitating greedy ****s out to rip people off.

If you or anyone else thinks that someone is trying to pull a fast one on the FS forums, you can always report the post by using the said button on the thread starters post.

WhiteWashMan

billy the squid wrote:

2) Telling someone that one can get something somewhere else cheaper is in breach of the FS forums charter. This is clearly defined as "thread spoiling."
.

i actually think thats a crap rule tbh.

how can you negotiate with a rule like that?

it also means that anyone warning about a rip off merchant is in line for a ban. i dont think its in keeping with boards.ie ethos tbh.

Hobart

What ferdi and wwm said. Stupid silly rule.

Hobart

I'm confering with my peers at the mo. Will get back to you on this.



/waits.......

ianmc38

Thank you everyone, i'm glad that the mods agree with me on this one. I thought it was bezerk that this guy was saying the price he had quoted recently for the item was €2800. I simply posted a link that showed a current price of the item brand new that was less than half o the so-called quoted price.

The rule in the charter favours those who like to overcharge for their goods. I think it is unreasonable to say that people cannot inform potential buyers that better bargains exist on the net/in stores. Another part of the charter(to the best of my memory) states that the boards.ie community isn't here to rip people off and that we should be trading items at fair prices. Therefore, pointing out extortionate claims and prices should not IMHO be a bannable offence. Of course, when there is unadulterated spoiling going on bans should be handed out as normal. But in the case where members are simply informing the rest of the board of better available deals, i don't think a ban should be an automatic punishment.

Anyway thanks to the mods and everyone else for your replies.

Regards,

Ian

Baz_

Jesus, with rules like that, I don't think I will ever be venturing into the for sale fora...

quick translation:

1) buyer beware

2) buyer be very aware

The Sweeper

I can see why the rule might be in place - to head sale-spoilers off at the pass. I think it may be an idea to amend it slightly though - e.g. you may only post an alternative offer if:

*It is EXACTLY THE SAME PRODUCT - e.g. same brand, model, make - inotherwords, if I post up a hoover for sale for €100, you're not allowed reply with "you can get a dyson here for €80"
*You can link directly to the item for sale somewhere else at a cheaper price

I can appreciate that it must be a spammy spam-fest altogether if you have a bunch of people making "one of these does exactly the same job for half the price" arguments on a thread, but still, you should be allowed counter someone trying to sell a bucket of icecubes for a tenner...

amp

Hobart wrote:

What ferdi and wwm said. Stupid silly rule.

And yet few seem to want to know why the rule was put in place. I imagine it was put there to stop people from lurking on the for sale boards and whinging about products while never actually buying them.

If somebodies selling something for what some would consider to be too high a price for something then they'll get less interest. They may then drop the price to something reasonable.

Of course there will be the odd moron who buys it and therefore would get ripped off. If so what business is it of anybody elses? If you think it's your business then I suggest buying the Buy&Sell and ringing up anybody you consider to be trying to rip people off.

ianmc38

amp wrote:

And yet few seem to want to know why the rule was put in place. I imagine it was put there to stop people from lurking on the for sale boards and whinging about products while never actually buying them.

I wouldn't mind if i fell into this category, but i've made several purchases off the FS forums, including one from a boards mod.

Of course there will be the odd moron who buys it and therefore would get ripped off. If so what business is it of anybody elses? If you think it's your business then I suggest buying the Buy&Sell and ringing up anybody you consider to be trying to rip people off.

Thats a ridiculous point and is not using logic. The buyandsell isn't an online community in the way boards.ie is and it is plagued with rogue traders and rip-off merchants. The whole point of selling through the boards here is to avoid bull**** like that, and to ensure that we all get the best deal possible.

In my case i pointed out a brand new item that was €1100.

A person in the same thread quoted the price as being €2800 two months ago when he got a quote.

I'd hope that if i was going to buy an item for a ridiculous price, that another member would be able to advise me that I was getting ripped off. Hell we're all meant to be friends here.

Hobart

The buy and sell have their own rules, i'm sure, and boards has theirs. Comparing 1 sales avenue to another is not relevant in this instance. The buy and sell allows traders, would you argue that because they do, we should?

The rule negates the whole aspect of the community. i.e. If I see a poster who is probably being ripped off, I should be able to point that out to him/her and back up that claim with relevant links, examples etc... If I'm wrong, I am thread spoiling and therfore in breach of the rules and the relevant action should be taken.

jonski

ianmc38 wrote:

Now, i posted a reasonable offer and explained why i offered that amount. Next a user started posting about how great the item for sale was, links to similar items and made up prices for similar items. I then played the role of the devils advocate and explained why this users points were invalid. next thing i know i get banned for thread spoiling..

It really would help if you linked to the thread , but it seems from above that you were actually bidding for said item ? , and backing up said bid with relevent links ?. Was the other user posting , bidding aswell ? and were they banned aswell ?

ianmc38

jonski wrote:

It really would help if you linked to the thread , but it seems from above that you were actually bidding for said item ? , and backing up said bid with relevent links ?. Was the other user posting , bidding aswell ? and were they banned aswell ?

I bid and explained why i had bid the amount i did. Some other guy then joined the thread who had no interest in buying it who started vindicating the sellers asking price, saying how great an item it was and how he got quoted €2800 for the same item 2 months ago.

In response i said that was a ludicrous claim and I posted 2 links to sites that sold the same item for €1100 brand new.

For some reason my posting of real prices and factual information was deemed thread spoiling and i was given a ridiculous 3 week ban from a forum where i'm a regular buyer.

The other user had no interest in purchasing the item. Instead he provided information on mysterious "quotes" he had been given by various retailers that were higher than the original retail price of the item two years ago.

For some reason his post wasn't deemed as spamming or inappropriate. Basically as I see it, the law leans one way and not the other and is in no way consumer-friendly.

needless to say i'm extremely annoyed about this ban, as it's one of the forums that i tend to browse alot in work to see whats on offer.

<sigh> </sigh>

WhiteWashMan

well, unless the mod in question revokes the ban, then youre plain out of luck im afraid.

and while i sympathise, and i think its a stupid rule, that doesnt mean a thing.
as amp said, the rule was put in place originally for a good reason. well, i didnt think so then and i dont think so now, but thems the rules.

although, why someone cant put up a link to the equivalent item at a much lower cost is beyond me.

lets not change things for changes sake, but at the same time, some things do need to be looked at.

therecklessone

ianmc38 wrote:

<sigh> </sigh>

Judging by your account I'd feel you were hard done by, but its your account. I've no reason to doubt you, but you've been asked twice already for linkage and I'll join in the request. You can find the relevant thread if you go to user cp and check all subscribed threads.

On what I've read so far the guilty party is the person who posted the €2800 claim after you'd offered what you considered to be a fair price.

On a general note, I'd agree with Amp TBH. People are quick enough to point out the (disabled) search function and suggest searching the web/google and the like when questions keep reoccuring on boards, so why not leave it to buyers to do their own research before they agree to purchase something from For Sale? The one exception to this should be if one suspects dodgy dealings, at which point a PM to the relevant mod is the appropriate course of action.

I'd agree with WWM and ferdi.
The rule should be looked at so as to allow for helpfull posters who may point out to bidders that an item is ridiculously over priced.

Sometimes people will know this and just wont bid.But theres bound to be people who don't.
Boards.ie is a community so some jig room for a poster to make one post and one post only to point out a possible rip off should be encouraged in my opinion.
That said,they aren't easy boards to police and I'd imagine that the rule is rigid to keep muppets from thread spoiling.
If theres going to be a rule review then cognisance should be taken of the fact that there are muppets around who wont care that you loosened the rule to be helpfull, they'll just spoil anyway.

The only answer to that,if it happens and I suspect it would unfortunately is to add a few more moderators,otherwise the boards would become a chore.

ianmc38

WhiteWashMan wrote:

well, unless the mod in question revokes the ban, then youre plain out of luck im afraid.

and while i sympathise, and i think its a stupid rule, that doesnt mean a thing.
as amp said, the rule was put in place originally for a good reason. well, i didnt think so then and i dont think so now, but thems the rules.

although, why someone cant put up a link to the equivalent item at a much lower cost is beyond me.

lets not change things for changes sake, but at the same time, some things do need to be looked at.

yes i agree with you that the rules are the rules, but that rule is out of date and i think it needs to be reviewed. I accept my ban. I'm p'd off about it but I accept it. What i don't accept is the other guy receiving no ban for saying "blah blah blah, thats a great offer, i was quoted €2800 last month for that item, what a great deal". Yet i can't say hold your horses here are two hard links not based on an unproven "quote" (easily could've have been the same user with a different username!) that show that this item now sells for alot less than €2800, nearly 1/3 of the price.

That guy was a troll with no reason to post in the thread other than to spoil it for potential buyers.

Anyways, i've betetr things to do than rant about this all day. Only 20 days 8 hours to go. Come on 3 weeks.

jonski

Well going by "your account " of what happened , and this is totally seperate to what others are posting here about the "rules" , I feel you were extremely hard done by , and I wonder if the mod in question might have acted too quickly or not fully understood the thread in question .
Maybe a pm to him might be a better way to go as in my experience of the FS mods they usually go with the right option .
Lets be straight here about the order of what happened , as this guy was not pointing out anything to anyone therefore not breaking the rules as such .
Guy 1 offers item for sale , guy 2 makes a bid , guy 3 says "heh guy 2 your bid is too low I would have to pay bla bla bla for same " guy 2 comes back and defends his bid.....................who should get banned ??????????? guy 3 you are the weakest link , good bye........

Doctor J

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=311171

seamus

I have to support the mods in this particular decision.

The link you posted wasn't working for me (session probably expired), but a quick search on ebay.ie found none of that model for less than €1,200, and none of them in this country.

The bulk of your posts were just your personal opinion, mouthing off about the product.

CuLT

I've read through the entire thread (deleted posts included) and this is the reason he was banned:

seamus wrote:

The bulk of your posts were just your personal opinion, mouthing off about the product.

Entirely warranted.

amp

ianmc38 wrote:

yes i agree with you that the rules are the rules, but that rule is out of date and i think it needs to be reviewed. I accept my ban. I'm p'd off about it but I accept it. What i don't accept is the other guy receiving no ban for saying "blah blah blah, thats a great offer, i was quoted €2800 last month for that item, what a great deal". Yet i can't say hold your horses here are two hard links not based on an unproven "quote" (easily could've have been the same user with a different username!) that show that this item now sells for alot less than €2800, nearly 1/3 of the price.

That guy was a troll with no reason to post in the thread other than to spoil it for potential buyers.

Anyways, i've betetr things to do than rant about this all day. Only 20 days 8 hours to go. Come on 3 weeks.

I think you're right on the point of others piping in to say it's a good price. That's just as bad as what you did. They are spoiling the thread just as much.

Opinions should be left at the door. The only thing that should be posted on a thread are offers and enquiries about the product. And if the price is too high then I suggest people buy elsewhere. Boards does not gain anything from the For Sale forums apart from offering a free service to it's members. Therefore boards is not obliged to change the rules just because you can't be arsed to read/obey them.

Forums evolve over time. Rules are added to prevent disruption, to keep the forums operational. You've been on boards.ie less than a year so maybe you haven't seen this evolution in action. I'm not trying to patronise you, merely stating a fact.

jonski

Read through the thread , but without your deleted posts , it involves alot of trying to read between the lines . From the replies it does seem that you were over aggressive in defending your bid . Best way to go is bid , see what the buyer says and leave it at that , it has never really been open for discussion .

Although I have only ever bought two items on the FS board , I visit it every day ( waiting for that certain someone to take pity on my out of work status and sell me that socket 478 3 gig for 20 quid , yes I know your out there and I am in a financial position to wait for a long time for you to show yourself , you know who you are....sorry , where was I?) and have to say that the mods seem to get it right 99% of the time in a really busy and difficult forum .

John