lost in classics...

davidclayton

i'm relatively new to the world of classics, and just doing some research on them.
i'd like to get one in a while, but would prefer to get one that would require little or no work.
i know it is like looking for the holy grail when i say this , but can a classic be gotten that can be run as your main [and only] car, with little maintenance?

every magazine or forum i look at seems to recommend the same cars as a "beginners classic", ie. an mg, mini, or beetle. they don't really interest me, and would like to hear of alternatives.
i have a very broad range of classics that i like, ie. citroen ds, bmw 2002tii, ford escort mk2, etc.
i would not be able to afford a guzzler like a mustang or 7 series beemer, so very large cars are kind of out of the question.

one other thing i should mention...
if i was going for a "proper classic"
[ie. not a honda CRX - although i like 'em]
it would have to be 30 years old or more.
this means i could escape taxes and save money.

i would appreciate your recommendations and advice.
dave

ds20prefecture

davidclayton wrote:

i have a very broad range of classics that i like, ie. citroen ds, bmw 2002tii, ford escort mk2, etc.
i would not be able to afford a guzzler like a mustang or 7 series beemer, so very large cars are kind of out of the question.

Here's the thing, David.

The DS will consume as much petrol as a mustang, the 2002 as the 7 series.
Most Old cars drink like fish, modern cars drink in moderation.The comparative cost of petrol versus a modern car is offset by the saving in road tax on a classic.

There's little or no insurance difference on a classic versus a modern daily driver.

You'll spend more servicing/repairing a classic unless you do it yourself.

A modern car will depreciate. A classic may depreciate. Buy the right classic, and this is your biggest saving.

If you have your own company, or a really friendly accounts department, buy the classic as a company car. BIK is 30% of the price of the car when new.

So my advice would be to buy what appeals to you most.
Buy it "well" - i.e. spend as much money as you can afford getting a straight car. Ignore bells an whistles like leather and stereos and sunroofs. An absence of rust and sound mechanicals will save you thousands as the years pass, and might only cost you 1000 more when buying.
Get an expert on the marque/model to inspect whatever you buy.
Join a club, and buy from private sellers in a club - they hold their identity within that club sacred. Dealers/agents, in my experience, live from sale to sale and don't much care for their long-term reputation.
Before you get it, buy as many books, join as many model-specific discussion groups, and attend as many club meetings as you can.
When you get it, don't be afraid of it. Get stuck in (it helps to have another car for, say, 6 months).
Have patience. The right car is out there.

Hope this helps.

davidclayton

helpful advice. i am think ahead a bit, as i would not say i will buy for quite a while.
just starting my research now. any update on the technical weekend?

Dades

Just a note re insurance to bear in mind:

To get a cheap classic policy you will need to have another (non-classic) car insured under your name. You can still be insured if you don't, but insurance will be close to that of a normal car.

It's a enjoyable and rewarding project to set about buying your first classic - especially these days with the Interweb. Enjoy it, and don't dive in. But remember eventually you'll have to make that leap of faith.

davidclayton

if i was getting a classic ie. over 30 years - i would probably keep my smart. i would find it hard to part with. excellent fun car.

dsman

DS Prefecture is right on all counts.

Most importantly, don't let your first buying experience be your last, buy smart. get a solid car with no rust, go the extra few quid for a clean car and buy off a club member if at all possible. there are bargains out there but they usually involve refurb work, steer clear first time around.

It took me six months to buy my first DS and I was online all of that time learning and researching. THis is a big part of the fun, enjoy it.

my advice is for a first classic :

Always avoid major rust, no matter how much you love the car/colour etc - paintwork is alike all work on classics, it doesn't look much but it will always cost more than you want to pay. That will never change.
Never buy a car without seeing it yourself, best to know what you're getting into first hand.
Ensure the car is running for some time and drive it yourself - better still get a classic mechanic to go with you and check it out, this will guarantee you better quality and save you money in the long run.
try get a standard enough classic, the ones you mention are all solid decent cars
forget fuel consumption, if that matters, you're in the wrong game
be very careful of moving parts like sunroof (Rustcatcher), convertible (money pit if not perfect), you can always add these but you can never take them away properly.
come to terms with the fact that you will spend up to e1000 pa even on a good car on parts, maintenence and servicing.
Source parts even before you buy, most solid classics have a great networks of parts suppliers, without them, your car will become henhouse.
Some suggestions in the 7 to 10k range (Not show condition, driving classics) , the Citroen DS any year, BMW 3.0csi coupe, 1970-75 BMW 3.0 or 2.5 saloon, Peugeot 504 cabriolet, Jaguar MKII. They all drink juice but even a mini over 20 years old is a guzzler !
You will never make money buying and selling classics at that level, you won't lose money if you keep your cars well, and that is the aim financially.

Talk to people, Classic owners are always willing to talk and help each other out. Clubs can be a little claustrophobic, but nobody cares if you're not going to rallies etc. as long as you are a genuine fan of the cars and aren't out to abuse their generosity, no problem.

there are car rallies on throughout the year, check them out. They can be brilliant for info and if you like cars, there's always some surprises and treats at most of them.

Owning a classic in Ireland is extremely good value for money. VRT is such a rip-off that cars over 30 years give you everything you need in a modern car and more for half the price or less. there are millions of ways to say a classic is better but try this one for starters.

For e9,000 you can get either a 1999 Ford Focus or a pristine DS or Jag MKII. You pay 800 less Tax annually and if you sell two years later the Jag/DS will be worth the same as when you bought it, the Focus will get you e6.5k. All are reliable cars, which would you choose ?

davidclayton

very encouraging words. i think it could be a while until i actually purchase, just stalking the fringes at the moment. i put a post up on the retro car club with some useful suggestions... let me know what ye think.

http://www.retrocarclub.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=742&hl=

ds20prefecture

I would have unsubscribed at the first mention of a Volvo 340. These are among the worst cars ever made, in my opinion.

If I were you, I'd pick one make & model and obsess about it for a while. Immerse yourself in information about it, and learn as much as you can. If you still want it after a month of total information saturation, go buy one.

Also - try to get yourself a drive in one.

MercMad

Yes I agree with the lads here. We've been using ours as a second car for 4 years now, practically daily, never let us down and in 4 years we've spent under 3k for upkeep !

Thats less than 1 years depreciation on ANY new car !

I'm about to take on a major body job after which the car will retire and I'll buy another classic Merc and maybe a W123 to drive daily !

RoundyMooney

Another consideration of course is the cars ability to stand up to the Irish climate. Any one have any suggestions for someone who needs to keep the car in their driveway? I'm sure I'm not the only one, and I cringe every time it rains with my TR outdoors

Ryan

ds20prefecture

Yep - drive it every day. It shakes (most of) the water out.

RoundyMooney

I think you're right DS, better to have fun with the effin thing, than look at it through the hall window worrying about how long the steel is going to hold together

I'm going to touch up the factory installed (and still generally intact) waxoyl type stuff before the end of the month though, just for my peace of mind you understand ;-)

Speaking of DS's, there's what looks to be a relatively recent resto on the southside of Cork city, I saw it a while back, squeezed into a tight spot in someones drive. I say recent, because there's a very glossy finish on her, but unfortunately the brown stuff was comin through here and there. I only mention it because I was struck by how beautiful a machine they are in the flesh. If I had indoor storage, I'd buy one in the morning.

Mr. Presentable

Man I would kill for a Citroen SM...........

http://www.cybernex.net.au/clubs/cccv/models/sm/sm6.jpg

shagman

Have a look at the reliant scimitar. I had a similar list of requirements and it ticks all the boxes. Get one pre 75 with a galvanised or waxoyled chassis (it has a fireglass body) no rust worries, simple mechanicals, fast and torquey 3ltr V6 engine, practical estate shape yet far from volvo boxy looking (of course I don't mean the P1800es by that).It's looks are kinda love or hate it seems so it's just whether it's to your taste.

69 mustang

shagman wrote:

Have a look at the reliant scimitar. I had a similar list of requirements and it ticks all the boxes. Get one pre 75 with a galvanised or waxoyled chassis (it has a fireglass body) no rust worries, simple mechanicals, fast and torquey 3ltr V6 engine, practical estate shape yet far from volvo boxy looking (of course I don't mean the P1800es by that).It's looks are kinda love or hate it seems so it's just whether it's to your taste.

I'm trying to get my Uncle to sell me his 73 cream scimitar GTE manual with wolfrace wheels its a minter never thought much of them till I saw this one up close. The photo size i have is to large to download.
the only bad thing about most of them was the wiring was very light and gave trouble but other problem of over heating is easy to sort.

www.scimitarweb.com

davidclayton

scimitar. nice. didn't know they were fibreglass

shagman

If you fancy seeing 2 of them in the flesh PM me I'm up just the N4 from you in Kilcock.

Heres a photo or two of mine from the Durrow show last year (thanks to Camaro Bill fo the photos)

davidclayton

yes i like them. will be a long while until i am buying though. might see you at a classic car show in the meantime.

shagman

You might see me flying around Lucan in it over the next few months, I'll be involved in getting the new skatepark built