need advise on pressing charges due to slander. i feel victimised.

RoyalMarine

hey there.

i need some advise on a situation i thought was not but apparently is...

i worked for a company. ( not gonna disclose the name for legal reasons )
while working here, i was doing my leaving cert.
i was thinking of a career elsewhere at the time aswell, pending my lc results.
so i told the assistant manageress in the store that i was thinking of leaving...
she then told the manager, and the manager found someone to replace me.
i decided not to leave, having not fully decided on what to do.... and the manager then rang my parents and tried to get them to convince me to leave the store to concentrate on my exams..
but i still didnt leave... ( sure its my choice right? i was a good worker... )

anyways, a few weeks later i decided to leave and persue my career...
later on i applied for a job. i used my old job as a reference.
i had someone on the inside helping me, and i was told the job was mine, pending my reference.
my school gave me a great reference inwriting, and same with my ex employer...

but when it came to phone call, my ex employer let me down.
i wasnt offered the job...
so i moved on. and did something else...
since i moved home 3 weeks ago, i found out that my ex employer who let me down on the reference said the following on the phone call to the job i applied for...

michael, is a male schovanist pig,
has a poor attendance record,
has a very scruffy appearance,
doesnt cope well under pressure,
doesnt have a positive attitude towards women,
treats women like objects and demens them...

and the list goes on...

i found this out as someone i know who works in the company saw it. and told me about it. also a member of my family has seen it.

basically, its slander. defermation of charachter.
i feel embarassed for the person i had pulling a string in company helping me get the job, for this to happen.
i feel embarassed for my family member who works on contract there every day,
and i feel embarassed for myself as this is not who i am.

i can get charachter refernces from every staff member i worked with in that store, and they all say i was great to work with.... most of them were girls!

75% of my friends are girls.
i have a very respectful and professional appearance, and always have.
i am not racist, or male ego centric or anything.

its 100% lies.

and i dont know what to do.

please advise me on this as i need to end it quickly.
this woman who gave me this reference is also slandering my name around to other people.

im not sure but am i legally allowed to get hold of the info told to the company so i have proof?
am i allowed to press charges?
and what could happen if we go to court?


i want this stopped and i want compensation for this.
i lost out on a great job, a great career, and now i have a bad name in my town... also this can stop me getting other jobs...
i feel victimised over this as if she has a personal vendetta against me...
i did nothing wrong.

please some advise is appreciated!

Sangre

Yeah, pretty strong case there if you can show do they said it.

anyway...GO TO SOLICITOR!

whiskeyman

Sounds like you may need to contact a solicitor tbh.
I remember hearing a case like this before and in many instances employers now refuse to give references as they are scared of being found in anyway liable.
I've worked in 2 big foreign banks and both told department managers to refuse to give verbal references / character profiles.
Most just confirm dates of employment.
Hopefully someone here can give more advice on the steps to take.
Best of luck.

RoyalMarine

thanks for the quick replies.
i am gonna go to a solicitor, but was just wondering for any other experiences or stories anyone else had..

i have 100% proof of what she said.

but am i allowed to write to or call the company i applied for, to ask them for the file in which this is all docementated?

its still there 100%.
just not sure if im entitled to see it is all or copy it...

i think i am due to the openess of information act thingy.

anyways, more advise is great lads and gals!!

Beruthiel

work forum
B

Peace

RoyalMarineComm wrote:

i have 100% proof of what she said.

but am i allowed to write to or call the company i applied for, to ask them for the file in which this is all docementated?

its still there 100%.
just not sure if im entitled to see it is all or copy it...

i think i am due to the openess of information act thingy.

Its called the freedom of information act (thingy).

testicle

Which only applies to Governmental organisations.
You're looking for the Data Protection act.

dramaqueen

I worked in the Uk as the manager of a restaurant and often had to give references. I was told that it's illegal to give a bad reference. You can only say positive things and if you can't say anything nice you have to say that you decline from giving a reference.
I assume it would be the same here. Or at least very similar.
Give the citizens advice bureau a buzz and ask them.

MorningStar

dramaqueen wrote:

I worked in the Uk as the manager of a restaurant and often had to give references. I was told that it's illegal to give a bad reference. You can only say positive things and if you can't say anything nice you have to say that you decline from giving a reference.
I assume it would be the same here. Or at least very similar.
Give the citizens advice bureau a buzz and ask them.

It is not illegal to give a bad reference just not advisable. The main reason being if somebody were to question your views you ned to prove it. Many traits that get described are really only opinion more so than actual facts. If somebody is late a lot and has been given written warnings on the subject it would be perfectly allowable to mention the persons attendence. THey still might sue if the want too
If you were to say the persons attendence was good and they found out you lied they company might sue you.
Due to the possibility of court actions many companies decide not to allow any other detail than simple work details.

Peace

testicle wrote:

Which only applies to Governmental organisations.
You're looking for the Data Protection act.

Hes right, the Data Protection Act would be way more relavent... assuming you are going for a job in the private sector.

Chavster

testicle wrote:

Which only applies to Governmental organisations.
You're looking for the Data Protection act.

Data protection act only applies to information stored on a computer. If it's just a piece of paper in a filing cabinet I don't think you have a right (by law) to see it.

However, the information can be subpoena'd if necessary...(I think!)

It is shocking at how immature and spiteful some people can be with regards to references. I was always told that it had to be a good reference or no reference...

Good Luck, I hope you screw them out of a hefty compo sum

Khannie

RoyalMarineComm wrote:

i have 100% proof of what she said.

If it's written, you're sorted. Just bring it to a solicitor. Good luck. I think that's really nasty.

the_syco

RoyalMarineComm wrote:

im not sure but am i legally allowed to get hold of the info told to the company so i have proof?
am i allowed to press charges?
and what could happen if we go to court?

Hook up a phone to a recorder. Press record, and get a mate to ring the company up. Use the same string as last time, pretending you know nothing. Have your mate say your applying for X job (similair to the job you got turned down for), and let her rant on. When your friend hangs up, you've got a recording.

=-=

Under the Data Protection act (any info held about you, may be requested by you), you should be able to claim that file. I think the company must have a valid reason why they didn't employ you. Ask the lawyer to chase that up for you.

Carb

Under the Data Protection Act, you are entitled to copies of everything held regarding you, whether its notes from your interview, references etc. or details stored on a computer. The details of the Act are at the adress/link detailed below. You/Solicitor should send a letter quoting the relevant section of the act and requesting copies of all documents they have containing your details. It would probably be best if your going to involve a solictor, that you get them involved from the start. It seems they can possibly avoid giving you details of the reference if your ex-employer stated that it was in strict confidence. Best of Luck.

www.ucc.ie/law/irlii/periodicals/colr/2005iv.pdf

whippet

the_syco wrote:

Hook up a phone to a recorder. Press record, and get a mate to ring the company up. Use the same string as last time, pretending you know nothing. Have your mate say your applying for X job (similair to the job you got turned down for), and let her rant on. When your friend hangs up, you've got a recording.

=-=

I believe that you must inform the other person that you are recording the call, otherwise you cannot use it as evidence.

savoyard

Will a tape-recording be admissible if you haven't asked permission? I though phone tapping was illegal?

Go to a solicitor to find out what your rights are. It could well be the case that she is entitled to give her opinion when asked as a reference. Written references are worth very little these days as few people are going to put negatives opinions in writing and hand it to you.

MorningStar

Chavster wrote:

Data protection act only applies to information stored on a computer. If it's just a piece of paper in a filing cabinet I don't think you have a right (by law) to see it.

Data protection applies to all information not just on computer. You are entitled to any file with information regarding you unless it is to do with national security.

0utshined

MorningStar wrote:

Data protection applies to all information not just on computer. You are entitled to any file with information regarding you unless it is to do with national security.

MorningStar is correct on this, originally it just related to information stored on a computer but this was expanded.

As to whether or not a tape recording could be used, even if it couldn't you would have an extra witness in the person that made the call.

jimmycrackcorm

the_syco wrote:

Under the Data Protection act (any info held about you, may be requested by you), you should be able to claim that file. I think the company must have a valid reason why they didn't employ you. Ask the lawyer to chase that up for you.

What are the chances that by the time you get the file that it is the same as it is now?

Our man in Havana

Or gets shredded accidently!

RoyalMarine

patrick, thats what i was scared of.
and thats why i didnt ring anyone yet. or release any names to which companies are involved. incase the company i want to sue rings the company with the file and it gets... "misplaced" or something...

but these companies keep these records for life incase i ever apply there again or to 1 of their associates.

basically, i called the citizens advice yesterday.
they told me,

1, if i can get a witness to this document it will hold in court.
and
2, if i can get a copy or the original of the phone convo that was written down when my reference was being done, aka the phone call to my ex boss who gave the reference, then i have more or less 100% complete proof and she dont have a leg to stand on...

they told me to contact my solicitor immideatly. so i did.
i have a meeting with him some time this week...

oh, and by the way, for those who are not 100% if you are allowed to do what she did,.
its 100% illegal to give a false, demeaning impression of someone through a reference.

if they dont have anything good to say about someone, they are not allowed to say anything at all.

she basically said as much as she could to stop me getting the job.
its pure hatred against me, but its uncalled for as i never gave her a reason for it..

my solicitor says i have every right to take them to court and claim for 3 things.

1 - compensation for loss of work since then.
2 - defermation of charachter on a large scale and lying about my personality and appearance.
3 - embarassment to myself, family member's and the colleague who was helping me get the job.

was also told i can take 3 different cases against them.
and sue for all 3 aswell..

id be happy with them appologising and the record set straight so this doesnt follow me in my career.
money is not my concern right now.

but thanks for the info lads!
ill let ye all know what happens.

Dundhoone

RoyalMarineComm wrote:

.

if they dont have anything good to say about someone, they are not allowed to say anything at all.

While its totally unfair what she did to you , she is entitled to give you a bad reference if that was her experience of your working for her.

If she can back up her accusations with written warnings she gave you then you have no case against her. If she can back up her accusations with witnesses then its your word against hers.

Were you ever given warnings about time keeping or sexism in writing or in front of more than one member of staff?

RoyalMarine

nope.
never given a warning, or a written warning either.

well they follow the usual standard precautions...

first warning ( verbal and non recorded )
second warning ( verbal but recorded for 6 months )
first written warning ( recorded on record for 6 months )
second written warning ( recorded and may lead to dismissal )
any further disipline leads to dismissal or other wise stated.

i recieved none of these.
i have lived in this town for years and years.
my family has a high reputation here.
ive worked in several jobs around the town for both small shops and large firms.
ive never recieved any form of disipline apart from 1 attendance verbal warning while working in my last job.

ive never been accused of any of the statements she has called me.
i can get personal references from all of my co-worker's from when i worked in that shop. and since then ive contacted all of them and none of them think its fair or in any sense true.

also, ive never been accused of being sexism, female hatred or any other form of abuse or bullying at work, school or in my social life.

so basically, i am clean of these statements.
and can prove it aswell.

even if she is allowed to give a bad reference, calling me these things is blatant defermation of charachter and since she didnt mention anything on my written reference, or in person to myself or any other staff member, sure i worked there for a year!, i dont see how they could be true at all.

WhiteWashMan

dramaqueen wrote:

I worked in the Uk as the manager of a restaurant and often had to give references. I was told that it's illegal to give a bad reference. You can only say positive things and if you can't say anything nice you have to say that you decline from giving a reference.
I assume it would be the same here. Or at least very similar.
Give the citizens advice bureau a buzz and ask them.

its not illegal to give a bad reference. what you cant do is give unsolicited negative subjective feedback.

in other words, you cant shoot your mouth off and say hes a crap worker, and he has a terrible attitide.
these things cant be proven. you can only give information based on proof, like the title of the position you worked, the hours you kept, whether you were regularly sick or ill and what performance indicators were like. ie your annual appraisal etc.

if the caller then asks for your opinion on things such as attitude, then you can say things like, he didnt get on well with certain memebers of the team, he had an attitude problem, he didnt have the ability to cope with medium tasks etc, and all of this is your opinion.

but yes, i would certainly either go to lawyer or citizens advice and see what they say to you

RainyDay

Here's an alternative suggestion - you won't like it, but do give it due consideration.

Forget about it & move on.

I'm not sure that you're getting great advice from your solicitor. There is a chance that he's thinking more about his fees than your welfare. Did you have a discussion with him about what fees would apply?

Employment issues are very difficult to deal with in court. My brother won an unfair dismissals case many years ago, but told me afterwards that he'd never have taken the case in the first place if he knew what it was going to be like.

If you did win, any compensation that you get would relate to the specific harm done to you as a result of their action - Is it really worth all the stress, tears and trauma that it's going to involve?

Our man in Havana

If you do that it green lights every employer to go ahead and slander its former employees and they will face no penalty as everyone will be too chicken to deal with it.

Don't let them away with it.

TempestSabre

What happened with this?

RoyalMarine

oops. forgot to let ye know!

argh hate it when that happens...
lol


well a few weeks ago, i went to see my solicitor.
told him the whole story.
he wrote a letter to the company that i went for the interview with and got a copy of the phone call and all the interview details that were recorded when i went for it.

it all looked great and i was on my way to getting the job! except for the letter... cant find it right now, but basically it said,

michael jenkins worked for our company with a very poor attitude from day one. he was late on several occasions, very easily distracted and abusive to certain customer's and staff members.... i would class him as being a male chauvinist pig, very deemening towards the female co-worker's and i believe him to be racist against the irish nationality as he intents on joining the british army when he finish's school....

then my solicitor wrote a letter to the manager who gave this statement.
basically she ignored it....
so a week later the solicitor wrote to the head office of the company...

he got a call from their solicitor and they asked to set up a meeting...

they pressed the importance of this not going to court as it would damage the names of both companies....
i agreed. its not the company's fault for her actions...
but then again this isnt the first time she has been accused of this type of activity..

none the less, we setteled out of court on the matter.

but believe me for what i recieved in compensation was no way near worth it.
it took weeks and so many letter's and phone calls to get it sorted out...


i asked my solicitor is this common, and he basically told me its a daily thing in ireland for this to happen...
next time im best to confront the person who did it and complain to them over it... if i feel like its slander, then i "can" take it further but in the end its not worth it....


so my advice to anyone who is in a similiar posititon, think of the time frame and the hassle before you decide to go ahead with it....


oh, 1 more thing...
what i got in compensation was a 4 figure lump of money, a public apology from her and the company, and a clean record with the other company which i wanted to work for...
since then, i wrote to them, applied for a job, got accepted for an interview, went for the interview, passed it fine with outstanding references, and was offered the job.

but i turned it down.
im happy where i am now.
the reason i turned it down was i wanted to prove a point to all parties involved that the statement given in the first place was false, inaccurate and blatant slander and lies!!

well hope this satisfies any curiosity!

thanks for all the help given by everyone!

Our man in Havana

Well Done! I am happy for you!

I am amazed that someone would actually put that in writing. Silly cow!

DonkeyStyle \o/

Wow, fair dues.

but then again this isnt the first time she has been accused of this type of activity..

Was any disciplinary action taken against her at all?
Really, some people are too stupid/psychotic to be managers.

RoyalMarine

well she's about 63 64 now. so id say she aint gonna get sacked... but hopefully she will have early retirement forced on her....

TempestSabre

RoyalMarineComm wrote:

well she's about 63 64 now. so id say she aint gonna get sacked... but hopefully she will have early retirement forced on her....

Sounds like the fairy tale ending we all wish for.

the_syco

After reading this, I'm thinking about getting a mate to ring up my own refrences to see what they say. And tape it all. Well done for going through with it: you may have spared others.