Mr Barry McSweeney

Druid

I, personally, would label Mr. Barry McSweeney a charlaton. This follows from the discovery that his Ph.D. was awarded by a discredited 'degree factory' in the USA.

While Im sure he has done a great job in his current role as "Chief Science Advisor" for the government, I feel that he has essentially decieved his employers. While we all might exaggerate a little on our own CV (how many of use actaully enjoy walking?) the issue of adding a fake degrees is disgraceful.

Im currently in an Academic career and the achevement of a Ph.D. is no mean feat. The discovery that the governments chief science advisor has a fake Ph.D. is not going to help Irelands reputation.

The most annoying point is that the government refer to Mr. McSweeney as a "Doctor". I find this disgraceful and insulting to those who spend many hard years in obtaining their full credited doctorate award.

Is this a big political issue or just more ammunition for the other political parties?

A Dub in Glasgo

Did he actually state that his PhD was from another institution other than the Pacific Western University. If he correctly stated that he got a PhD from that institution, how can he be accused of deceiving his employers?

Have a look at a lot of MBA and Masters degrees that can be obtained in a similar manner

ISAW

Druid wrote:

I, personally, would label Mr. Barry McSweeney a charlaton. This follows from the discovery that his Ph.D. was awarded by a discredited 'degree factory' in the USA.

...
The most annoying point is that the government refer to Mr. McSweeney as a "Doctor". I find this disgraceful and insulting to those who spend many hard years in obtaining their full credited doctorate award.

Do you apply the same annoyance to them referring to Dr Paisley?

edanto

Druid wrote:

I, personally, would label Mr. Barry McSweeney a charlaton.

No way! Just look at the guy's record and attitude. He played a stormer at the JRC in Europe and hasn't pulled many punches when shaking things up in Ireland.

What does it matter where he got his PhD, or whatever awards he has? Surely he was recruited based on the skills and experience he picked up in the 20 years or so since he got that PhD.

Druid

He has yet to comment on this matter. I would guess that he did state that the Ph.D. (if you could call it that) was given by Pacific Western University.

The other MBA and degrees where you pay a couple of thousand dollars to obtain are also complete and utter toilet paper. If I ever discovered that anyone whom I was conducting business with had such a qualification I would seriously consider Stop doing business with them. Im my opinion its fraud.

I personally do not find honorary doctorates appealing. However if they are given by a reputable institution then yes it is accecptable to use the title "Doctor". In the case of Mr. Paisley then no, since Bob Jones University is non-accredited, his title of "Doctor" is also false. If his work is so good then surely an accredited univerity, somewhere in the world, would give him a honorary doctorate.


I am not saying he has done a bad job. My gripe is with his use of the title "Doctor" as its an insult to those who have actually obtained one in a legitimate manner. While his case is not as bad as paying a few dollars and collecting your parchment, a Ph.D. involves doing research that is subjected to peer review.

I think while this matter does seem trivial to most, to others which this directly effects the absence of a (in my mind) legitimate Ph.D. and using the title "Doctor" to boost credibility is appalling, particularly on goverment documents. I can only speculate that this could only harm Ireland's progress to becoming a knowledge driven economy. As the saying goes, "Mud sticks".

A Dub in Glasgo

I agree it is crass for someone who gets a PhD or other qualification in this manner to use it in such a way that implies they have done some original research but it is up to employers to investigate qualifications therefore he has not deceived his employer if he correctly states where he got his PhD from.

Druid

If he has invested time into obtaining a degree from such a university then, more fool him.

Its like buying a rolex...you get what you pay for. These fake degrees are the same as buying a rolex from some guy on ebay for $20. If you bring the watch to a jewellery shop and you are agast to find the jeweller telling you that he will not touch the watch as its clearly a knock-off.

If Mr. McSweeney was so commited to obtaining a Ph.D. why could he not have done so with somewhere like the Open University - which is accredited.

Please read what I have said.
I do not dispute the fact that he can do his job. I object to his use of the title "Doctor". As regards the facts being inaccurate, he has yet to dispute them.

bonkey

[QUOTE=DruidThis follows from the discovery that his Ph.D. was awarded by a discredited 'degree factory' in the USA. [/quote]
Discredited by whom? Adn when you say discredited, do you mean "not held in any significant regard by those who know better", or do you mean "is not actually able to legally confer a Ph.D. but does so anyway"??? A quick google would suggest its the former....in which case one could suggest your use of the word "discredited" is as misleading as McSweeny's use of the prefix Dr. in that both are technically accurate but not entirely representative of the full truth.

The most annoying point is that the government refer to Mr. McSweeney as a "Doctor". I find this disgraceful and insulting to those who spend many hard years in obtaining their full credited doctorate award.

No more disgusting than the honorary doctorates that get handed out by respected universities to whoever they feel like.

Again, it boils back to what you mean by "discredited". If they are actually able to confer Ph.D.s then it doesn't matter how crappy a regard they're held in, the man has every right to use the term Doctor. He holds a PhD and is therefore a doctor.

To me this sounds like the same type of sour grapes I've seen in so many IT companies where they've hired MCSE/MCP/MCSD certified developers, only to discover after the fact that the qualification is effectively worthless in terms of being an accurate representation of any sort of ability.

If you're willing to accept any qualification at face value, you deserve what you get in my book.

jc

ISAW

Discredited by whom?

To be fair I think he meant "non accredited". Only certain universities can hand out proper degrees. Otherwise it dilutes the standard.

ISAW

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Did he actually state that his PhD was from another institution other than the Pacific Western University. If he correctly stated that he got a PhD from that institution, how can he be accused of deceiving his employers?

Have a look at a lot of MBA and Masters degrees that can be obtained in a similar manner

What do you think of the University of Dublin's MA? and the EGs and JOs.

ISAW

Locke said something like "It is easier to feign knowledge than to attain it". At least I think he did somewhere in his Essay on Human Understanding.

geraghd

What are the EGs and JOs?
The DU MAs are very different btw.
And once he was clear about where he obtained his PhD I dont see the problem though I think as Chief Science Advisor one would want to have a credible degree. And anyone can award a Ph.D or other title. I can award myself a knighthood or doctorate but such awards needs to be standardised or credited to be worth something. therefore a Ph.D from TCDs molecular medicine programme would be worth a hell of a lot more than one from PWU.
Once we are clear about the value of such degrees, I dont see the problem.
Interestestingly I was reading an article only a day or two before this came out on the chief science advisor and in his bio the IT stated that "he "earned hs PhD"" from PWU. Notice the inverted commas that the IT placed. It actually baffled me as to what it meant, and now I know... strange...
Also apparently he wasnt a nice guy to work with..

sceptre

ISAW wrote:

Locke said something like "It is easier to feign knowledge than to attain it". At least I think he did somewhere in his Essay on Human Understanding.

Sort of stating the obvious then so if he did say it, it was probably one of the few things Leibniz didn't bother trying to rebut.

Generally any qualification that one can just go and buy isn't and shouldn't be worth anything (there are a few exceptions where it's an extra qualification bought for a few coppers where the standard has been met in a previous qualification). As for Paisley's doctorate, it's obviously a doctorate from a non-accredited college (Bob Jones uni) and an honorary doctorate at that, though I'm not sure whether recipients of honorary US doctorates generally use or can legitimately use "Doctor" as a title (here it's usually not the case). However I tend to agre with bonkey's contribution - if it's the college that's more of a fakery than the piece of paper someone has it's distinct from someone printing their own degree. The actual learning from such a course may be the same (either way it may not exist) but if you get a qualification from Sceptre Universities of Aruba Incorporated and put it on your CV as something you've actually received, it's up to prospective employers to ascertain what you might have done to attain that qualification.

A quick search by me quickly turned up the non-accredited nature of Pacific Western as well as the college getting sued by the State of Hawaii and being investigated by the General Accounting Office in the US as part of a larger enquiry into diploma mills and degree factories as well as the bogus nature of their courses. I also discovered that their exams are almost solely multiple choice which is to say the least, rather unusual for a PhD qualification. If I happened to be hiring I'd like to think someone being interviewed by me qith a PhD from any college I'd never heard of might just result in a quick check by me, particularly if I happened to be interviewing for Chief (Anything) Officer or Advisor. The fault in this case essentially lies with the hirer as far as I can see.

[strike]Of note however (from Wired), apparently the state of California regards qualifications (at least primary degrees) from Pacific Western valid if they were obtained prior to 1997. Anyone know when this accused charlatan picked up his parchment?[/strike] struck - see edanto's comment below. The article's still worth a quick look though)

edanto

It was probably 20 years ago, since he was the head of BioResearch Ireland from 87(think) to 95.

So, maybe PWU was a more respected institution back then? That would be worth looking into.

EDIT: Sceptre, even though that wired article referred to PWU, I think they were talking about a different uni (Columbia Pacific) in the 1997 sentence.

Anyway - If it truly is a sham doctorate, then it casts a shadow over his character - but why would that affect his ability to do his current job. The government must have been impressed by references from jobs he has had in the past 20 years.

sceptre

edanto wrote:

Sceptre, even though that wired article referred to PWU, I think they were talking about a different uni (Columbia Pacific) in the 1997 sentence.

Indeed they were, thanks.

geraghd

sceptre wrote:

Sort of stating the obvious then so if he did say it, it was probably one of the few things Leibniz didn't bother trying to rebut.

Generally any qualification that one can just go and buy isn't and shouldn't be worth anything (there are a few exceptions where it's an extra qualification bought for a few coppers where the standard has been met in a previous qualification). As for Paisley's doctorate, it's obviously a doctorate from a non-accredited college (Bob Jones uni) and an honorary doctorate at that, though I'm not sure whether recipients of honorary US doctorates generally use or can legitimately use "Doctor" as a title (here it's usually not the case). However I tend to agre with bonkey's contribution - if it's the college that's more of a fakery than the piece of paper someone has it's distinct from someone printing their own degree. The actual learning from such a course may be the same (either way it may not exist) but if you get a qualification from Sceptre Universities of Aruba Incorporated and put it on your CV as something you've actually received, it's up to prospective employers to ascertain what you might have done to attain that qualification.

A quick search by me quickly turned up the non-accredited nature of Pacific Western as well as the college getting sued by the State of Hawaii and being investigated by the General Accounting Office in the US as part of a larger enquiry into diploma mills and degree factories as well as the bogus nature of their courses. I also discovered that their exams are almost solely multiple choice which is to say the least, rather unusual for a PhD qualification. If I happened to be hiring I'd like to think someone being interviewed by me qith a PhD from any college I'd never heard of might just result in a quick check by me, particularly if I happened to be interviewing for Chief (Anything) Officer or Advisor. The fault in this case essentially lies with the hirer as far as I can see.

[strike]Of note however (from Wired), apparently the state of California regards qualifications (at least primary degrees) from Pacific Western valid if they were obtained prior to 1997. Anyone know when this accused charlatan picked up his parchment?[/strike] struck - see edanto's comment below. The article's still worth a quick look though)

Not sure but from what I understand the State of Oregons Dept of Education doesnt recognise PWU and therefore the degrees conferred by the university..

ISAW

geraghd wrote:

What are the EGs and JOs?

want to enrol ad eundem,
In their graduate school. Don't defend 'em.
So I'm not up to snuff?
My B.A.'s not enough?
If the rules don't allow it, just bend 'em.

Ad eundem (a-dee-EN-dum), or ad eundem gradum (a-dee-EN-dum-GRAY-dum): the honorary granting of academic standing by a university to one whose actual work was done elsewhere.

jo - Jure officii

The DU MAs are very different btw.

How so? Do you have one?

... a Ph.D from TCDs molecular medicine programme would be worth a hell of a lot more than one from PWU.

Tcd molecular medicne does not award degrees. TCD does not eeith for that matter. The University of Dublin does.

Once we are clear about the value of such degrees, I dont see the problem.
Interestestingly I was reading an article only a day or two before this came out on the chief science advisor and in his bio the IT stated that "he "earned hs PhD"" from PWU. Notice the inverted commas that the IT placed. It actually baffled me as to what it meant, and now I know... strange...
Also apparently he wasnt a nice guy to work with..

I have heard some talk. I preferred to wait till someone went on record. I still don't see any academics going on record.

geraghd

How so? Do you have one?

Not yet. They are awarded on the basis that one has done their primary degree there, following 3 years of post graduate (as opposed to postgraduate) life experience. Everyone is entitled to it on those conditions. There is an administration fee but this is waived to those with a BA (Mod)/LL.B etc of 50 years standing.

Tcd molecular medicne does not award degrees. TCD does not eeith for that matter. The University of Dublin does.

Indeed, but Im not sure I get your point. I mean you are of course correct, but why offer this information?

ISAW

geraghd wrote:

Not yet.

It is the "yet" that confirmed my suspiscion.

They are awarded on the basis that one has done their primary degree there, following 3 years of post graduate (as opposed to postgraduate) life experience. Everyone is entitled to it on those conditions.

But is this not what Mc Sweeny had? Life experience? By the way they (the Ma (Dubl.) are only awarded to BA holders. So do you think a primary BD would be one of those conditions?

There is an administration fee but this is waived to those with a BA (Mod)/LL.B etc of 50 years standing.

900 Euro to "administrate" a degree? How much does the parchment cost. How many hours of work do the alumni office do? How is the scost accounted for? The University has no account. All the money as far as I know goes to the College. Do you know any different? So what is the difference between this and the Mc Sweeny case above?

Indeed, but Im not sure I get your point. I mean you are of course correct, but why offer this information?[/QUOTE]

ISAW

geraghd wrote:

Indeed, but Im not sure I get your point. I mean you are of course correct, but why offer this information?

Because you stated:

a Ph.D from TCDs molecular medicine programme would be worth a hell of a lot more than one from PWU

I pointed out that there is no such thing as a Ph.D from TCDs molecular medicine programme. It doesnt award degrees. Indeed it isnt even a wholly Trinity College endeavour. The MMU is a colaberative effort AFAIK involving RCSI and UCD. I have no idea if any research has been awarded a PhD from the University of Dublin or the National University of Ireland. I would suppost most of the research is post doctoral and published in peer review journals.

ADDENDUM:
http://acer.gen.tcd.ie/molmed/
http://acer.gen.tcd.ie/molmed/phd/
but that is a course run by TCD health science with the co operation and facilitation of the MMI. The MMI courses are short courses not held in or run by member institutes and can be found here
http://www.dmmc.ie/courses.htm#ForthcomingCourses

Well you did mention it

geraghd

ISAW wrote:

It is the "yet" that confirmed my suspiscion.



But is this not what Mc Sweeny had? Life experience? By the way they (the Ma (Dubl.) are only awarded to BA holders. So do you think a primary BD would be one of those conditions?


900 Euro to "administrate" a degree? How much does the parchment cost. How many hours of work do the alumni office do? How is the scost accounted for? The University has no account. All the money as far as I know goes to the College. Do you know any different? So what is the difference between this and the Mc Sweeny case above?

Indeed, but Im not sure I get your point. I mean you are of course correct, but why offer this information?

[/QUOTE]

Its a little over 400 not 900. Sweeneys degree is one that is paid for and to my knowledge nothing else done for it. The MA is one granted to those so entitled and goes back to the days when universities only awarded Masters in Arts for uni education, as Bachelors were not heard of till some time later. Our full education in Dublin, awards us with a BA (Mod) and MA. Its not a money making racked like most useless degrees, as I think you will find 400 euro not exactly a bank break.

And I never said nor aluded to the fact the the Ph.D in Molecular Medicine was awarded by anyone other than DU. It is a course from the molecular medicine programme. Under this initiative, one can do the diploma, Masters, or Ph.D programme. The Ph.D as I said is part of this.

geraghd

And what the BD? Bachelor in Dentistry. As far as I am aware, you are entitled to the MA with an LL.B also so I would assume a BD would be the same. Though I could see a situation where it wouldnt if the BD (assuming it is Bachelor in Dentistry) was only awared recently in the lifetime of the University and therefore considering the historic and somewhat outdated practise of the MA relatively speaking, it may not qualify. But Im only conjecturing..

geraghd

ISAW wrote:

I

ADDENDUM:
http://acer.gen.tcd.ie/molmed/
http://acer.gen.tcd.ie/molmed/phd/
but that is a course run by TCD health science with the co operation and facilitation of the MMI. The MMI courses are short courses not held in or run by member institutes and can be found here
http://www.dmmc.ie/courses.htm#ForthcomingCourses

Well you did mention it

I am well aware of the courses you know..

ISAW

geraghd wrote:

Its a little over 400 not 900.

Sorry. I referred to the ad eundem gradum MA. My mistake. and it is over 900.

Sweeneys degree is one that is paid for and to my knowledge nothing else done for it.

The MA is one granted to those so entitled and goes back to the days when universities only awarded Masters in Arts for uni education, as Bachelors were not heard of till some time later. Our full education in Dublin, awards us with a BA (Mod) and MA. Its not a money making racked like most useless degrees, as I think you will find 400 euro not exactly a bank break.

But the PhD he got was awarded to someone so entitled. The one thing Trinity can say is that they have four degree undergraduate arts degrees and only what others would call "honours" degree, though it is possible to leave in third year with a BA. But an MA is understood internationally to be a postgraduate qualification. So one is getting the qualification without actually submitting a thesis for example. I did not say that was wrong I asked you what is the difference?

And I never said nor aluded to the fact the the Ph.D in Molecular Medicine was awarded by anyone other than DU. It is a course from the molecular medicine programme. Under this initiative, one can do the diploma, Masters, or Ph.D programme. The Ph.D as I said is part of this.

It isnt! See my other reply I added an addendum. The MMI is not an accredited institution for the awarding of PhD's no more than the one that gave one to Sweeny. You said there was a difference. How is there?

ISAW

geraghd wrote:

I am well aware of the courses you know..

But from what you stated one might think that the MMI awards PhD's and is over the courses. It isnt! It facilitates the courses and supplied training . It has an educational function. I do not deny that. It is a new type of endeavour and extermly worthwhile I do not deny that. But it does not award a PhD. The NUI or UoD awards the degrees. This may seem moot but iot relates to the topic under discussion namely whatan acredited instution actually is.

i may be wrong about the MA from BA since Chapter XXII of the TCD Statutes states "Master in Arts: A bachelor of at least three years standing is eligible to proceed to this degree". given a BD is also only accepted three yeard after a degree from the University of Dublin and BA s are awarded before BAI s I withdraw the "only certain batchelors" i.e. BA's stipulation since it is redundant.

geraghd

Whats the ad eundem gradum MA?

Whatever the MA is understood to be generally is of no consequence. DU is not awarding the MA for postgraduate work. Its the basic qualification after 4 years of a degree. For research and thesis work, DU awards the M.Litt. The MA should not and I done believe is presended by those with it, as some sort of extra postgraduate work or thesis done. It is simply a part of the qualifications one receives. No one can get the MA without doing four years in TCD.
Sweeney on the other hand, went straight up to this University, and as I understand it simply paid for a Ph.D without doing anything else. Noone can do that with the MA, the MA from DU comes after four years studying and 3 years following that. No more, no less.

Whats the MMI, or do you mean the IMM? I think you are arguing with me on something I never said or believed.. whatever about the institutions, DU awards the Ph.D., I never said differently.

geraghd

[QUOTE=ISAW]But from what you stated one might think that the MMI awards PhD's and is over the courses. It isnt! It facilitates the courses and supplied training . It has an educational function. I do not deny that. It is a new type of endeavour and extermly worthwhile I do not deny that. But it does not award a PhD. The NUI or UoD awards the degrees. This may seem moot but iot relates to the topic under discussion namely whatan acredited instution actually is.

i may be wrong about the MA from BA since Chapter XXII of the TCD Statutes states "Master in Arts: A bachelor of at least three years standing is eligible to proceed to this degree". given a BD is also only accepted three yeard after a degree from the University of Dublin and BA s are awarded before BAI s I withdraw the "only certain batchelors" i.e. BA's stipulation since it is redundant.[/QUOTE]

I dont know how one might think that at all. I never even mentioned the MMI (again do you mean the IMM or what is the MMI).
and could you clarify what you are saying in your last paragraph because I dont understand what you mean. And again, what is the BD?

ISAW

geraghd wrote:

I dont know how one might think that at all. I never even mentioned the MMI (again do you mean the IMM or what is the MMI).
and could you clarify what you are saying in your last paragraph because I dont understand what you mean. And again, what is the BD?

Institute of Molecular Medicine http://acer.gen.tcd.ie/molmed/
Bachelor of Divinity. Bachelors with three years standing can also apply for that so I had it the wrong way around. But one could be working in TCD and get an MA jo without doing any thesis for it.

edanto

geraghd wrote:

Sweeney on the other hand, went straight up to this University, and as I understand it simply paid for a Ph.D without doing anything else.

Establishing this with certainty would certainly bring the man into a small bit of disrepute.

If, on the other hand, the PhD linked to some considerable achievments in research, even in industry, then I'd argue that he's very much deserving of the title. He is certainly entitled to it - as I read the yankee edu sites, PWU is an approved, but not accredited college.

sceptre

ISAW wrote:

It isnt! See my other reply I added an addendum. The MMI is not an accredited institution for the awarding of PhD's no more than the one that gave one to Sweeny. You said there was a difference. How is there?

The PhD is granted by an accredited institution isn't it? If it is, that's the difference, if it isn't you could well have a point. If you don't have a point there we're going into something a wibble tangent with a major in nit-picking and to be honest I don't see the point in illustrating how the TCD boys apparently mispronounce ad eundem. If you do have a point then we're not.

The topic under discussion hasn't been about what an accredited institution actually is as far as I can see, the closest it's come to that is whether a particular qualification has been granted by an accredited institution (and you'll presumably appreciate the distinction). Or an institution of any value as there appear to be a number of non-accredited institutions in the US that issue degrees that are accepted by offices of degree authorisation over there. Mind you none of these appear to have a special entry saying that there's no evidence that it's an acceptable provider of postsecondary education meeting Oregon standards on the exhaustive list of useless or made-up colleges provided by the Oregon ODA, though Pacific Western has such a specific entry. Might be partly because all their exams consist of twenty true/false or fill-in-the-blanks questions chosen from a total of sixty questions available, which frankly makes the brain dump sites for Microsoft exams look rather complicated. That's assuming that Mr McSweeney ever sat any of these exams though from what I've read about PWU's reputation for all their "courses" from undergrad level up and "exams" it wouldn't really matter.

I'd still blame the employer for not bothering to check.

edanto

PWU seems like a pretty shoddy institution now. I wonder if it was like that when he became Dr McSweeney?

There's no doubt his first employer after that PhD should have checked out exactly how good he was if it was a doctorate level job. I wonder where he worked after PWU?

galwayjanus

I am in total agreement with Druid. It doesn't matter what achievments the man has had in the past, it now seems that his 'PhD' is a complete sham. I had to listen to him speak at a conference last year and tell us all the importance of hard work and research. Then it turns out his is nothing more than a piece of paper. It makes a mockery of what every PhD student in this country is doing, spending 4 years to a get the qualification.

Now I see that he is speaking at the same conference this year, I hope that everyone in that room gets up and walks out when he takes the podium.

Syke

galwayjanus wrote:

I am in total agreement with Druid. It doesn't matter what achievments the man has had in the past, it now seems that his 'PhD' is a complete sham. I had to listen to him speak at a conference last year and tell us all the importance of hard work and research. Then it turns out his is nothing more than a piece of paper. It makes a mockery of what every PhD student in this country is doing, spending 4 years to a get the qualification.

Now I see that he is speaking at the same conference this year, I hope that everyone in that room gets up and walks out when he takes the podium.

I met Barry McSweeney and i've always found him an amicable man. That said, Im pretty shocked by the recent revelations.

It seems rather interesting that he recently spoke and supported reforms in funding for 4 year PhDs in science when it only took him a year to get his own.

Seriously though. Having never been through the same process and review procedure as so many people who have spent 3-7 years doing PhD work and then defending their thesis orally, he is not the person to dictate funding and research strategies reguarding PhD training and funding imho.

many people without PhDs have fantastic careers in science and are very well respected. However I don't recall any of them taking out an uncredited PhD to further tehir careers.

jd

i came acrosss this in the sunday times

Martin asks state’s science adviser about ‘bogus degree’Richard Oakley
THE Irish government’s chief science adviser has been asked to provide Micheal Martin, the enterprise minister, with details of his doctoral thesis following allegations that he was awarded it by a bogus university.
Barry McSweeney has been “given the opportunity” to prove the degree was earned correctly and awarded for a suitable body of work, according to government sources, following accusations he bought it from a “fee for degree” institution.
Last week McSweeney defended his PhD from the unaccredited Pacific Western University (PWU) in Los Angeles which he received in the early 1990s through distance learning.
He has also explained the circumstances in a phone conversation with Martin, and the enterprise department has defended his appointment last year as chief science adviser. But he is expected to meet officials and the minister in a bid to end the controversy.
McSweeney is understood to have told the department that the university was reputable when he was awarded his doctorate. But doubt has been cast on the status of any qualifications from PWU by an expert on American “diploma mills”.
PWU administrators are unable to provide a copy of McSweeney’s thesis and have even refused to release its title.
John Bear, an FBI consultant and an author of a guide to distance-learning colleges, described a qualification from PWU as a “ticking time bomb on a person’s CV”.
He said: “This man seems to have got himself into an embarrassing situation. I would have told him to steer clear of that university. The qualifications they give to people are not credible and in some states in the US it’s illegal to use them.” Bear said less than 1% of university registrars in America would recognise a qualification from PWU. An American television programme claimed some years ago that its campus in Hawaii was an empty office and its reporters were awared a degree in nine days. PWU denied this, but no legal action was taken. It is being sued by officials in Hawaii for breaches of consumer protection laws.
“It will be interesting to see if [McSweeney] presents his PhD and makes it public,” said Bear. “It is embarrassing to have a qualification from this university and to use it to call yourself a doctor.”
Steve Bonica, the president of PWU, said: “We are operating properly and the degrees we confer are legal.” He was unable to provide a copy of McSweeney’s doctorate, however. “We may or may not have a copy. We should have one, somewhere,” (!!!!!!) he said.
He said he needed permission to give the title of McSweeney’s paper.
Bear said this was typical. “It is almost laughable that a university not only cannot supply a copy of a doctoral thesis, but will not even reveal its title,” he said.
A spokesman for McSweeney was quoted in The Irish Times last week as saying that his doctorate took two years to obtain. She said it was based on research on the development of a biotechnology-based multi-research centre. The Labour party is to seek further clarification of McSweeney’s qualification this week. Jan O’Sullivan, its education spokeswoman, said: “We want more information on specific questions including the nature of the ‘substantial research’.” Last week the minister said McSweeney’s appointment was not made on the basis of his doctorate but on his experience. He has a biochemistry degree from University College Cork and a masters from Trinity College Dublin. He has worked as the director general of the European commission’s Joint Research Centre.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-1838760,00.html

Bonobo

Given that the Minister says he is looking into this McSweeney/Pacific Western University issue, I am sure he would welcome feedback and comments from people on it, particularly from those people who are working hard or have worked hard to obtain legitimate research qualifications from reputable universities.

Anyone who would like to assist the Minister with his consideration of the matter would be most welcome, I'm sure, to email his private secretary. Her email address is

Bridget_flynn@entemp.ie

toString

barry.mcsweeney@c-s.ie

paddy61

At the time Barry did his PhD he provided opportunities for Irish scientists to do PhDs in Bioresearch Ireland. Most of these posts are just purist crap, the only one who lacks courage are those who aren’t defending him. He was and is ahead of his time. paddy

Saoi

Those who have earned their doctorates the hard and honest way have every right to be angry.( Discussions of honorary doctorates and well known and ancient practices like the Trinity MA/M Phil distinction are red herrings.)

To make the claims B Mc Sweeney has made is to bring PhDs into disrepute. How bizarre when national policy is now to double our output of PhDs and to meet strict requirement of the Irish Universities Quality Board and adhere to good practice in research ethics. Shameful.

gmfreeman

toString wrote:

barry.mcsweeney@c-s.ie

It would be worth asking him the subject of his PhD dissertation and from where a copy of the dissertation can be obtained.

Anyone with a real PhD should have no worries about answering this question promptly and accurately.

Hope this helps

GMF

edanto

The Irish Times site has just announced that he no longer has the job as Chief Science Advisor. He's moving to a new post in the Dept Comms, Marine & Natural Resources and his old job will be filled by public competition.

Ouch.


EDIT: Maybe 'resigned' isn't such a good title. The breakingnews.ie site reports it as him being moved.

Either way, I guess it came back to bite him in the ass after all. I think it's a bit of a pity, he was doing a good job and probably would have done just as good as job if he called himself Mr. McSweeney.

But he didn't, he put the 'Dr.' flag up and got shot down. Hope the next one is as enthusiastic.

Saoi

Hey there,

I am so sure if the odinary proles like myself were caught out in such a cover up I would not have the luxury of being 'moved; I would be bloody-well fired. I am so glad for my current (and past) PhD students that they have some confirmation that ethical behavior and gruelling hard work and standards really do matter. Most of them will never reach Mr Mc Sweeney's level of income or status, but I hope they will always know that their work was valid, honourable and will stand the test of time and peer reviews. I hope for all of them that they exceed him in achievement and rewards.

cruiserweight

Trevor Sergeant brought up Mr McSweeneys appointment to a new role this morning on leaders questions and the debate getting quite heated! My favourite bit was when John Gormley said something across the floor to Bertie and Bertie replied "what would you know about science ......... what would you know about anything for that matter"!

bonkey

Looking at this thread, its noteworthy how many of the posters have a postcount < 3.

i71jskz5xu42pb

bonkey wrote:

Looking at this thread, its noteworthy how many of the posters have a postcount < 3.

Noteworthy why exactly?

edanto

Maybe some of them are friends that were equally upset and found out about boards at the same time? It is striking though - I suppose some of them could be the same person with two accounts; would it make much difference though?

I wonder if they'd like to comment on whether their motivations are political or just anger at the perceived deception? By the way, IMO, there was no deception, he never hid PWU - but I can understand the feelings of those that are working hard towards PhDs.

I hope that the push towards a well-funded 4th level that McSweeney started last year keeps up it's momentum. The Irish University Association published a policy doc last month incorporating a lot of his recommendations.

He was able to rock the boat since he had such a long time out of the country and didn't have many politico-scientific allegiences to worry about it. I'd be a bit worried that the next person in the job won't have the same freedom - no matter how 'good' their academic qualifications.

ishmael whale

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1116/mcsweeneyb.html
The Tánaiste has defended the Government's decision to appoint Barry McSweeney as the Government's chief scientific advisor. Mary Harney said a doctorate was never a requirement for the post. Speaking at a conference in Dublin today, she said Mr McSweeney had enormous experience managing 2,000 people and a budget of €5-6bn at EU level. ….Ms Harney said it had brought the office into disrepute. She added that the Government felt the fairest thing to do was to retain his talents in the public sector but to remove him from his post as the chief scientific advisor.

It looks simple enough, really. Either the whole business about the doctorate isn’t a problem, in which case there’s no need for him to go, or the whole business about the doctorate is a problem in which case there’s hardly a pressing need to create a new job at the same salary.

cruiserweight

ishmael whale wrote:

It looks simple enough, really. Either the whole business about the doctorate isn’t a problem, in which case there’s no need for him to go, or the whole business about the doctorate is a problem in which case there’s hardly a pressing need to create a new job at the same salary.

I think that it is not a problem in so far as his ability to actually carry out the job as chief science advisor. I think where the problem arises is that in academic circles what he has done is completely unacceptable and as he is dealing with a lot of academics he may not get the same level of respect or cooperation that he previously received.

So it seems to me that the government sees him as a key civil servant, but because of difficulties that he may encounter, or embarassment which he (Barry McSweeney) or the government might receive it was deemed a wise move to move hime somewhere else!

Jackz

I know another dodgy doctor

Wikipedia:

Paisley's use of the title 'Dr.' derives from an honorary Doctor of Divinity degree awarded by Bob Jones University in Greenville, South Carolina.

OT but ah well.