Waterford and the Dublin Media (part 2!)

Daysha

The following appeared on page 95 of this weeks RTE Guide. This was in a mini crossword.

" 7 Down. Town in south-east Ireland famous for crystal"


W.T.F.

Mossy Monk

WTF indeed

is it really that much of an "OMFG" situation?
i thinks not

kano476

Wexford? Tramore? Dunhill? Clonmel?

Jaysus thats a hard one, Im stumped.

DéiseGirl

kano476 wrote:

Wexford? Tramore? Dunhill? Clonmel?

Jaysus thats a hard one, Im stumped.

Have you never heard of Fenor Crystal boy?

Our man in Havana

The NRA needs to alter all the road signs from Dublin to Waterford to read "Waterford City". This should clear up any confusion among the Dublin media.

ishmael whale

As a matter of general interest on much the same topic, have a quick look at the ‘region’ drop down list at the top of this page. The menu layout is:

Abroad
East > Dublin City
Midlands
Midwest > Limerick City
North > Belfast City
North East
North West
South
South East > Kilkenny City/Waterford City
West > Galway City

I think this illustrates your problem. Even in this massively parochial country, no-one from Castlebar really queries Galway having its own sub board or demands a sub board for ‘Claremorris City’. But how is it that the South East, uniquely, has two sub boards – for Waterford and somewhere called ‘Kilkenny City’? It would be revealing to find out how this came to pass.

The title of this thread uses the term ‘Dublin’ to refer to a problem that looks to be closer to home. Obstructing the moving of Waterford City boundary is more of a problem than the phrasing of the RTE Guide crossword.

merlante

ishmael whale wrote:

As a matter of general interest on much the same topic, have a quick look at the ‘region’ drop down list at the top of this page. The menu layout is:

Abroad
East > Dublin City
Midlands
Midwest > Limerick City
North > Belfast City
North East
North West
South
South East > Kilkenny City/Waterford City
West > Galway City

I think this illustrates your problem. Even in this massively parochial country, no-one from Castlebar really queries Galway having its own sub board or demands a sub board for ‘Claremorris City’. But how is it that the South East, uniquely, has two sub boards – for Waterford and somewhere called ‘Kilkenny City’? It would be revealing to find out how this came to pass.

The title of this thread uses the term ‘Dublin’ to refer to a problem that looks to be closer to home. Obstructing the moving of Waterford City boundary is more of a problem than the phrasing of the RTE Guide crossword.

I'm sure you're just trolling again, but anyway. (why the interest in Waterford anyway?)

Not so long ago, there were no south east city boards on this site, and bugger all Waterford people posted. Myself, mike65 and others kicked up a huge amount of **** about this, adding compelling arguments, statistics, and all manner of justification, and finally they added a Waterford city board, which, as you can see, has been very successful. Unfortunately, before they added the Waterford City board, one small minded moderator, from Kilkenny, thought it would be super funny to add a Kilkenny City board first. The Kilkenny City board is still there, because presumably none of the other admins/moderators wanted to argue with him.

But yes, if Kilkenny is there, then so also should Dundalk, Drogheda, Bray, Sligo, Tralee, and perhaps one or two others, be.

One of the things that really pisses me off about this country is that even though everyone can name all 32/26 counties in the country and the 4 provinces, few people can name the 5 cities of Ireland. This is due to the government intentionally allowing a state of confusion to develop so that they annoy the least number of people.

Cabaal

First off I prepose that all Dublin City, Limerick City etc etc boards actually be changed to Dublin, Limerick & Waterford etc etc so as not to offend the people living in the county.

Second off, with regards to the RTE Guide.
WHO THE FECK CARES!!?

jesus people stop bitching about people calling waterford a town and kilkenny a city, stop being so frickin anal about something some stupid.

Cabaal

deise59 wrote:

The following appeared on page 95 of this weeks RTE Guide. This was in a mini crossword.

" 7 Down. Town in south-east Ireland famous for crystal"


W.T.F.

Kilkenny Crystal, shop in the city and the factory is bout 10miles out the road

I may be wrong but neither Kilkenny or waterford have 7 letters
now calm down.

Daysha

Cabaal wrote:

Kilkenny Crystal, shop in the city and the factory is bout 10miles out the road

I may be wrong but neither Kilkenny or waterford have 7 letters
now calm down.

I presume (and hoping) you were being sarcastic but just to clear it up anyway, it was NO. 7 DOWN with 9 letters.

mike65

I'm open to correction, but I think it was Ecksor who green-lit 'Kilkenny City' and I belive he is from that neck of the woods.

Mike.

ecksor

merlante wrote:

Unfortunately, before they added the Waterford City board, one small minded moderator, from Kilkenny, thought it would be super funny to add a Kilkenny City board first.

What exactly is unfortunate about this?

The Kilkenny City board is still there, because presumably none of the other admins/moderators wanted to argue with him.

The Kilkenny City forum is doing fine as far as I can tell.

Cabaal

I certainly see no problem with a Kilkenny City board
surely the "small minded" people are actually the people that nitpik at the name?

merlante

ecksor wrote:

What exactly is unfortunate about this?

The Kilkenny City forum is doing fine as far as I can tell.

It is unfortunate that, a) there wasn't a Waterford City board there in the first place, that, b) a city board was created for Kilkenny, which is not a city, and that c) the Kilkenny city board was created sheerly as a response to demands by people for a Waterford city board, and therefore it was a cynical and small minded gesture.

Call me a pedant if you like, but there are five cities in this country, and it bugs me when people think they can just make up their own, just because they once had a royal charter. It also adds to the general confusion in this country that we have about cities.

If anyone wants to see the lengths that we had to go through to get the board can look at the archives!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-197729.html
(although some of the posts are incorrectly attributed)
There was another thread too, but I couldn't find it.

Prior to the creation of this board, there was very little posting by Waterford people: glad to see that those who were against it were proved spectacularly wrong.

Maybe the Kilkenny city board is doing fine now, but for ages it was dead. It was dead because Kilkenny people didn't demand it, and it was only put there initially to piss off Waterford people.

Bards

I believe the population of Carlow is now the same if not bigger than that of kilkenny. Should we now include them as a seperate heading under the South-East region.

Why not just decide that All Gateways/Proper Cities as outlined in the local government act (I.E cities with actual City Councils) are going to have sub headings. All hubs/towns (I.E towns with county councils/Town Commissionars etc.) just belong to the region they are in

This way it will be easier to administer, cause a lot less confusion and avoid the kind of arguing that is taking place at the moment.

merlante

Bards wrote:

I believe the population of Carlow is now the same if not bigger than that of kilkenny. Should we now include them as a seperate heading under the South-East region.

Why not just decide that All Gateways/Proper Cities as outlined in the local government act (I.E cities with actual City Councils) are going to have sub headings. All hubs/towns (I.E towns with county councils/Town Commissionars etc.) just belong to the region they are in

This way it will be easier to administer, cause a lot less confusion and avoid the kind of arguing that is taking place at the moment.

Precisely.

Our man in Havana

Kilkenny is still a city! Even the signs say "City Centre" and not the common Town centre!

merlante

Bond-007 wrote:

Kilkenny is still a city! Even the signs say "City Centre" and not the common Town centre!

Yeah, and sometimes I feel like bringing the Kilkenny County Council to court over it!

Bards

I know this is getting off topic but.........

Originally when the excuse for a roundabout that was created at the Grannagh junction by Kilkenny Co. Co. the NRA installed a sign about a hundred metres back on the approach to this roundabout from the Dublin side (N9) which said Waterford City. (Pretty Logical I hear you say) to let tourists know that they are about to enter a Major City.

It was only there a wet day when Kilkenny Co. Co. objected and made the NRA take down the sign and put one up that says "Granny"

Now where is the logic in that... you will not find "Granny" on any map.. the townland is called Grannagh.. god help the tourists is all I say.

This is exactly the kind of reason and logic why the Boundary extension must go ahead.

ecksor

merlante wrote:

It is unfortunate that, a) there wasn't a Waterford City board there in the first place,

You're still complaining about this? You had one a short time later. What exactly do you think you're owed here?

b) a city board was created for Kilkenny, which is not a city

Leaving aside the argument, which has been done to death, about what is and what isn't a city as each side picks the definition that suits them, what exactly is unfortunate about that?

c) the Kilkenny city board was created sheerly as a response to demands by people for a Waterford city board, and therefore it was a cynical and small minded gesture.

I did it to wind people up who were posting snipey parochial bull**** in the form of county rivalry. Guess what! It worked!!

If you want me to be really cynical and small minded then this forum will disappear the next time I see this retarded bickering about how "my city status is better than your city status".

If anyone wants to see the lengths that we had to go through to get the board can look at the archives!

I think you left out "set my people free" there.

Maybe the Kilkenny city board is doing fine now, but for ages it was dead. It was dead because Kilkenny people didn't demand it, and it was only put there initially to piss off Waterford people.

I swear, when I read this sort of nonsense about forum justification and how we're supposed to figure out what forums to create or deny based on some criteria that appears to be something to do with the national interest or the common good it really makes me wonder what exactly people think we're trying to achieve here.

mike65

I think I better archive this thread for possible future reference.

Mike.

WhiteWashMan

i think some towns suffer from an inferiority complex...

or maybe its that dublin media at it again!
bloody jakeens!

merlante

ecksor wrote:

You're still complaining about this? You had one a short time later. What exactly do you think you're owed here?

I'm not complaining about anything. I was describing the circumstances under which the Waterford City and Kilkenny City boards were created, as a response to a question from a poster.

ecksor wrote:

Leaving aside the argument, which has been done to death, about what is and what isn't a city as each side picks the definition that suits them, what exactly is unfortunate about that?

There is no argument, the 5 cities (in the republic) are Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford. This is Irish law.

It's unfortunately because, in my opinion, it is misleading to create city boards for towns that aren't cities. You can call this pedantic if you want, but if you had county boards, you'd have all 32 counties, wouldn't you? You wouldn't leave out Roscommon, for example, and you wouldn't include historic counties, such as Co. Desmond. You'd have the 32 counties, no more, no less. I would expect the same for the Irish cities.

It's not my site, so you can run it whatever way you like, this is just what seems sensible to me.

ecksor wrote:

I did it to wind people up who were posting snipey parochial bull**** in the form of county rivalry. Guess what! It worked!!

And very mature it was of you too.

ecksor wrote:

If you want me to be really cynical and small minded then this forum will disappear the next time I see this retarded bickering about how "my city status is better than your city status".

Shut it down then. I'd prefer to find out what sort of site this is now, rather than go to the bother of contributing to it further, and then have the same small mindedness apply down the road.

ecksor wrote:

I swear, when I read this sort of nonsense about forum justification and how we're supposed to figure out what forums to create or deny based on some criteria that appears to be something to do with the national interest or the common good it really makes me wonder what exactly people think we're trying to achieve here.

This is really very simply. Someone on boards.ie got up one day and decided to set up city boards. They created a board for every city, except Waterford. Waterford people pointed out the omission. Waterford people were laughed at and abused. Eventually, after a thousand arguments, the board was created.

But I have to say, Ecksor, your behaviour on that occasion left much to be desired. We were only looking for the same as everyone else. I thought once the omission had been pointed out, that would be that.

ecksor

merlante wrote:

I'm not complaining about anything. I was describing the circumstances under which the Waterford City and Kilkenny City boards were created, as a response to a question from a poster.

You just referred to it as something "unfortunate", which looks like an expression of dissatisfaction, and therefore a complaint, to me.

There is no argument, the 5 cities (in the republic) are Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford. This is Irish law.

As I said, each side using the definition that suits them. I don't believe the legislature has much to say about how we go about naming our forums. I can also tell you that a forum about Kilkenny City could never be called anything else.

It's unfortunately because, in my opinion, it is misleading to create city boards for towns that aren't cities.

And on and on and on and on and on ... This argument is pointless here. Your point of view is well known and will not be taken on board.

You can call this pedantic if you want, but if you had county boards, you'd have all 32 counties, wouldn't you?

That's not pedantic, it's just pure speculation. We'd have whatever counties we wanted!!

And very mature it was of you too.

None of this moaning on the South East forums over the last year has reflected well on anyone's maturity so forgive me if I fail to feel embarrassment at your comment. I thought it was funny at the time. I laughed at the outcome. I expected some counter sniping but I certainly didn't expect to run into this sort of righteous indignation.

Shut it down then. I'd prefer to find out what sort of site this is now, rather than go to the bother of contributing to it further, and then have the same small mindedness apply down the road.

You just don't get it, do you? Use the forum, contribute to the forum, stop complaining about other forums, and everyone is all right! It just makes me sick when people aren't happy with having a forum for discussion that they wanted but feel the need to begrudge the existence of other forums. That sort of attitude can **** right off.

This is really very simply. Someone on boards.ie got up one day and decided to set up city boards. They created a board for every city, except Waterford. Waterford people pointed out the omission. Waterford people were laughed at and abused. Eventually, after a thousand arguments, the board was created.

You left out "Set my people free" again.

But I have to say, Ecksor, your behaviour on that occasion left much to be desired.

And your point is? What does the ombudsman have to say I wonder.

merlante

My comments about the cities of Ireland are based on fact, I'm not engaging in parochialism in any way.

The only person that is getting worked up on this thread is Ecksor. I was just giving people a history lesson.

Bards

merlante wrote:

My comments about the cities of Ireland are based on fact, I'm not engaging in parochialism in any way.

The only person that is getting worked up on this thread is Ecksor. I was just giving people a history lesson.

I agree with Merlante

ecksor

Two contextless statements that show no interest in actually continuing this, so I'll summarise as follows.

I, like many others, don't care one bit about the annoyance that Waterford people seem to express that their elite status as a city isn't incessantly recognised and is cheapened by the eliteness of the club itself not being recognised. If you feel the need to debate or argue these points when they arise, then fine, it's a ridiculous difference of viewpoints / opinions as far as I'm concerned until the Kilkenny forum itself gets spammed with it periodically (behaviour which seems to have died down of late), but then that's what boards is for. However, you can't rationally expect to be taken seriously when you complain that boards had slighted the Waterford users by not providing a Waterford forum and then argue that the same insult should be committed against the Kilkenny users just to satisfy your own sense of order, which is generally what your arguments seem to boil down to.

Cabaal

So we all use wikipedia right?
And we all believe the stuff we read in it right and is pretty much fact, right?
and the media uses it too to confirm stuff when writing stories right?

Wikipedia says Kilkenny is a city
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilkenny

I would also like to point out that at the end of the Waterford, Dublin, Limerick and Kilkenny pages it says:

Cities in Ireland
Republic of Ireland: Dublin | Cork | Limerick | Galway | Waterford | Kilkenny
Northern Ireland: Belfast | Derry | Armagh | Newry | Lisburn

now stop your winching about kilkenny not being a city!

ishmael whale

I think the problem is the Wikipedia says it’s a city, while at the same time pretty much acknowledging that its not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilkenny
Kilkenny ….. is also the only city in the republic that is not a county borough and so its administration is a "borough council", rather than "city council" as with the other cities. Kilkenny is also the only city in the republic that has neither an institute of technology nor university although National University of Ireland, Maynooth maintains an outreach center in the city.

From what I can gather, Clonmel, Sligo, Drogheda and Wexford are also Borough Councils. The claim that Kilkenny is the only ‘city’ deemed a Borough seems to be an example of gravity defying delusion. If we accept that we’ve followed Alice into Wonderland, and words can mean whatever we want them to mean, I wonder if we’ll expect the Claremorris City board anytime soon?

The simple fact remains that the only reason its on the menu bar is because of local rivalries. Is this particularly important? No, not it and of itself. But the fact that a thread has been sustained on the topic shows that its illustrative of a problem. That problem is the inability of many Irish people to commit to a wider identity that their own parish. Kilkenny simply doesn’t have the same scale or potential as Waterford, but the South East as a region is the poorer because of an unwillingness to acknowledge that fact. This parochialism has practical effects – opposition to the extension of the Waterford City boundry being a timely and relevant example.

mike65

The simple fact remains that the only reason its on the menu bar is because of local rivalries. Is this particularly important? No, not it and of itself. But the fact that a thread has been sustained on the topic shows that its illustrative of a problem. That problem is the inability of many Irish people to commit to a wider identity that their own parish. Kilkenny simply doesn’t have the same scale or potential as Waterford, but the South East as a region is the poorer because of an unwillingness to acknowledge that fact. This parochialism has practical effects – opposition to the extension of the Waterford City boundry being a timely and relevant example.

I think that sums things up nicely.

Thread Closed!

Mike.

Cabaal

nope, thread is still open