Landlord trying to steal our deposit

monkey24 · 07-10-2005 11:02am #1

We just moved out of our house. It was left in perfect condition. In fact it was left cleaner than
when we got it. Apart from a burn on one of the bedroom carpets done by an iron, there is nothing wrong with it.
So talking to the estate agent today he starts babbling on about landlord not being happy with the place. He mentions things such has cracks in the ceiling, caused by a leak in the shower which we reported. I wont go into further details but it looks like he wants to keep our deposit to fix his house up.

What is the procedure if you want to take him to a small claims court. And what kind of evidence do i need.

cheers
monks

HelterSkelter · 07-10-2005 11:10am

From http://www.oasis.gov.ie/housing/renting_a_flat_or_house/landlords_rights_and_obligations.html?search=landlord+deposit

As a landlord you may withhold a deposit (or part of a deposit) only if

* the tenant has not given you proper notice when leaving.
* you have been left with outstanding bills (i.e., public utilities) or rent.
* the tenant has caused damage beyond normal wear and tear.

Check out the Private Residential Tenancies Board if you are having trouble:

http://www.oasis.gov.ie/housing/renting_a_flat_or_house/private_residential_tenancies_board.html?search=landlord+deposit

MorningStar · 07-10-2005 11:25am

The damage by the iron would not be considered normal wear an tear. Possibly €500-€1000 to replace carpet in an average size room.
How much is the deposit? Are they witholding the entire deposit?
Was the shower broken by normal wear and tear?
The small claims should be straight forward I think it is €6 to file. Been a while.
The big thing is are you sure all the things listed are normal wear and tear or could it be claimed you broke items?
Just other points of note, it was never your house and clean doesn't mean good condition.
I am not saying it is your fault or anything just looking at it from a another posible view.

monkey24 · 07-10-2005 11:43am

500-1000 for a carpet. Seriously you are getting screwed if you pay for that. I am not sure of the exact cost. But I have worked in painting/decorating before and I know its nothing near to that. I am going to get a quote now.
The house was left in perfect condition. I know clean is not the same as condition. But we left it in the same condition we got it bar the burn on the carpet, only cleaner.
Its a scam, they charge you for repairs to their house, which were in no way anything to do with the tenants. I lived in my last place for 2yrs and got charged 50euro cleaning fee. And this house was left in better shape than that.
I am a fair person but he is taking the piss with the list of items he wants to charge us for.

MorningStar wrote:

The damage by the iron would not be considered normal wear an tear. Possibly €500-€1000 to replace carpet in an average size room.
How much is the deposit? Are they witholding the entire deposit?
Was the shower broken by normal wear and tear?
The small claims should be straight forward I think it is €6 to file. Been a while.
The big thing is are you sure all the things listed are normal wear and tear or could it be claimed you broke items?
Just other points of note, it was never your house and clean doesn't mean good condition.
I am not saying it is your fault or anything just looking at it from a another posible view.

MorningStar · 07-10-2005 12:01pm

monkey24 wrote:

500-1000 for a carpet. Seriously you are getting screwed if you pay for that. I am not sure of the exact cost. But I have worked in painting/decorating before and I know its nothing near to that. I am going to get a quote now.
The house was left in perfect condition. I know clean is not the same as condition. But we left it in the same condition we got it bar the burn on the carpet, only cleaner.
Its a scam, they charge you for repairs to their house, which were in no way anything to do with the tenants. I lived in my last place for 2yrs and got charged 50euro cleaning fee. And this house was left in better shape than that.
I am a fair person but he is taking the piss with the list of items he wants to charge us for.

There are differnt standards of furnishing a good carpet can cost the sum I said. I tend to use top quality carpet as it tends to be better value in the long run. You can spend €3 a yard or €1000 if you want. €500 is relatively expensive cost for a 12*12 room.
How much was the depsoit and how much are they wanting to keep?
I don't believe you that it is a scam in the same way I don't assume the landlord is right. A judge will do the same and if you speak like that to the judge they won't listen. Get your details straight and be very precise about what damage was done. I would suggest you get pictures of your alledged damage now before it is too late. There is no point getting angry about it or angry at people asking questions about it. All you have said is I left the place fine and he won't give the deposit back. All he will say is you damaged the place and he is keeping the deposit. He can produce proof (damage something take a picture) if need be but what can you do? You should have got the deposit after an inspection with you there. You left yourself open and the landlord didn't so. I think your case will not get very far either way. WHy should you be believed? Don't shoot the messanger

jhegarty · 07-10-2005 12:18pm

MorningStar wrote:

There are differnt standards of furnishing a good carpet can cost the sum I said. I tend to use top quality carpet as it tends to be better value in the long run. You can spend €3 a yard or €1000 if you want. €500 is relatively expensive cost for a 12*12 room.
How much was the depsoit and how much are they wanting to keep?
I don't believe you that it is a scam in the same way I don't assume the landlord is right. A judge will do the same and if you speak like that to the judge they won't listen. Get your details straight and be very precise about what damage was done. I would suggest you get pictures of your alledged damage now before it is too late. There is no point getting angry about it or angry at people asking questions about it. All you have said is I left the place fine and he won't give the deposit back. All he will say is you damaged the place and he is keeping the deposit. He can produce proof (damage something take a picture) if need be but what can you do? You should have got the deposit after an inspection with you there. You left yourself open and the landlord didn't so. I think your case will not get very far either way. WHy should you be believed? Don't shoot the messanger

if you can't carpet an average size room for €250 then you need to get help....

monkey24 · 07-10-2005 12:24pm

I am not angry at the landlord or you. I was asking for advice on where to take my case. In fact I think you are assuming you know a lot more than you actually do.
I already have experience in bringing a landlord through the small courts for a deposit when I was act Uni. On this occasion I won. I know my rights and I am pretty aware of when I am being scammed.
I already got a quote from Des Kelly for the bedroom. Its 8*9 foot. I was quoted between 115 - 200 for good quality carpet. That includes fitting. The carpet on the bedroom was old and well worn when we got there. Would it be right for the landlord to use our money to improve his house ?. Surely he would have to get the same quality of carpet that was there in the first place.

He is trying to charge us for structural damage to the house.

1. Cracks in the ceiling. We reported the shower was leaking to the Estate Agend and showed him where the water was dripping through. We told him he should get this looked at, as water was getting underneath the bath and coming down a hole beside a light in the living room.

2. He is charging us for a little hole in the wall. Again we told the estate agent about this. There was a little crack in the wall, a little chunck fell out. We did nothing to cause this. There are a lot of cracks throughout the house. This is structural damage to the house and the landlord, under law, must repair and maintain the structure of the property

In my first post I didnt provide much detail on what exactly was happening because I just wanted to know who I should take this case to. When I was at Uni, I lived in Northern Ireland so was not sure of the process down here.

The landlord will have to provide receipts for everything he charges us for. He will also have to give proof that he is not charging us for items that are not caused by normal wear and tear. He certainly won't get away with charging us for structural damage. As I say, in reality the only thing we have done, was burn a bedroom carpet with an iron by mistake. This I am more than willing to pay for. Should I pay for an old blind that has a few holes in the top caused by pulling it down each evening, is this not normal wear and tear. Should landlords not have to pay for the up keep of their own houses. Or should they assume they can rent a place out for 10yrs solid and never have to replace anything ?.

Anyway as I say, I am not here to moan and throw my toys out the pram. I wanted some advice on where to take my case and I got it. And thanks for you input.

MorningStar wrote:

There are differnt standards of furnishing a good carpet can cost the sum I said. I tend to use top quality carpet as it tends to be better value in the long run. You can spend €3 a yard or €1000 if you want. €500 is relatively expensive cost for a 12*12 room.
How much was the depsoit and how much are they wanting to keep?
I don't believe you that it is a scam in the same way I don't assume the landlord is right. A judge will do the same and if you speak like that to the judge they won't listen. Get your details straight and be very precise about what damage was done. I would suggest you get pictures of your alledged damage now before it is too late. There is no point getting angry about it or angry at people asking questions about it. All you have said is I left the place fine and he won't give the deposit back. All he will say is you damaged the place and he is keeping the deposit. He can produce proof (damage something take a picture) if need be but what can you do? You should have got the deposit after an inspection with you there. You left yourself open and the landlord didn't so. I think your case will not get very far either way. WHy should you be believed? Don't shoot the messanger

MorningStar · 07-10-2005 1:03pm

How much is the deposit?
How much is he charging?
That is cheap carpet I wouldn't put in my places.
The landlord can produce evidence or make it. A recipt is very easy to get. I have been in court a few times over this issue and have never lost. Wear an tear are easy to tell the differnce. You left yourself open, the estate agent most likely never informed the landlord so it was most likely all news to him. You left yourself open to this. If the landlord is scaming you he will easily cover himself. He most likely believes you caused damage rather than actively waiting to steal a deposit. It just wouldn't be worth it.

jhegarty · 07-10-2005 7:53pm

MorningStar wrote:

How much is the deposit?
How much is he charging?
That is cheap carpet I wouldn't put in my places.
The landlord can produce evidence or make it. A recipt is very easy to get. I have been in court a few times over this issue and have never lost. Wear an tear are easy to tell the differnce. You left yourself open, the estate agent most likely never informed the landlord so it was most likely all news to him. You left yourself open to this. If the landlord is scaming you he will easily cover himself. He most likely believes you caused damage rather than actively waiting to steal a deposit. It just wouldn't be worth it.

have you ever once posted backing a tenant ?

if the estate agent didn't tell the landlord , then the landlord has an issue with the estage agent, not the tenant...

and do you really fit carperts at over €60 s/q meter in houses you rent out ?

the_syco · 08-10-2005 1:40am

jhegarty wrote:

have you ever once posted backing a tenant ?

You may want a yes-man, but MorningStar is replying like a landlord. If he agreed with the OP, and the OP went to court without getting advice from a landlords POV, the OP would be f*cked.

jhegarty wrote:

if the estate agent didn't tell the landlord , then the landlord has an issue with the estage agent, not the tenant...

That may be true, but do you think the EA is going to put his hand up and get charged, or let the tenant take the brunt of it? I'm not asking what the EA should morally do, I'm asking what would the EA do to save their own ass?

jhegarty wrote:

and do you really fit carperts at over €60 s/q meter in houses you rent out ?

There's good carpet, and there's carpet that will last. If half the tenants deposit was spent on the carpet... well, we don't know how much it is, as the OP hasn't said how much the OP paid deposit.

monkey24 wrote:

The landlord will have to provide receipts for everything he charges us for.

It has happened in the past where the landlords "friend" has charged a bit more, on the reciept, for a certain item to be done. Don't feel cosy just because he has to show you a reciept. The right person could put down on the reciept that a bit of plaster filler in the wall cost €250 or so, when in fact it may have only cost him €15 to buy the filler and done it himself.

=-=

Oh, and I found it slightly funny that you pointed all the stuff out to the landlord thats wrong with the house, and then they used it against you. The only way you could have covered your ass against this, is to have walked around with the landlord before you moved in, and pointed out whats wrong. I did that to one landlord, and they fixed it, no charge (it was a crack in a wall). If I didn't say anthing, untill a month or so later, I'd have been charged, for "you didn't notify the landlord before you started living there", thus there's no proof that you didn't cause it.

=-=

Good luck, but as MorningStar said, you've left yourself a bit open.

Gerry_J · 09-10-2005 10:46pm

The next rental you go to you should do a Tenants Snag List and present it to the Agent / Landlord the day after moving in, and mutually agreed that it should be attached to the lease and that you are not responsible for any issues or problems contained their in.

Then when it comes to inspection or move out time that is a list of issues in the tenants words to cover what the property was like when they moved in. I find this a great too to avoid conflict with tenants as they draw up the report and agree to be responsible for any thing not contained in it.

No issues of Small Claims or PTRB but a straight forward and simple approach. Also it stops the tenant saying it was like that when we came, so avoiding the doubt as I will have my pre rental inspection and the tenants snag list to work off when doing the inspection or move out.

Regards
Gerald D Jacob

MorningStar · 10-10-2005 7:24am

jhegarty wrote:

have you ever once posted backing a tenant ?

Yes lots of times. I generally try to balance out bias views or show how people don't play fair.

jhegarty wrote:

if the estate agent didn't tell the landlord , then the landlord has an issue with the estage agent, not the tenant...

and do you really fit carperts at over €60 s/q meter in houses you rent out ?

It could be the landlord/EA realationship but the tennat suffers. THe tenanat will end up playing piggy in the middle if they don't try and get to talk to the landlord.
Get a a carpet put in via an EA and costs go up and there is also the disposal of it. It just like €1000 hammer.

monkey24 · 10-10-2005 11:02am

the_syco wrote:

You may want a yes-man, but MorningStar is replying like a landlord. If he agreed with the OP, and the OP went to court without getting advice from a landlords POV, the OP would be f*cked.

That may be true, but do you think the EA is going to put his hand up and get charged, or let the tenant take the brunt of it? I'm not asking what the EA should morally do, I'm asking what would the EA do to save their own ass?

There's good carpet, and there's carpet that will last. If half the tenants deposit was spent on the carpet... well, we don't know how much it is, as the OP hasn't said how much the OP paid deposit.

It has happened in the past where the landlords "friend" has charged a bit more, on the reciept, for a certain item to be done. Don't feel cosy just because he has to show you a reciept. The right person could put down on the reciept that a bit of plaster filler in the wall cost €250 or so, when in fact it may have only cost him €15 to buy the filler and done it himself.

=-=

Oh, and I found it slightly funny that you pointed all the stuff out to the landlord thats wrong with the house, and then they used it against you. The only way you could have covered your ass against this, is to have walked around with the landlord before you moved in, and pointed out whats wrong. I did that to one landlord, and they fixed it, no charge (it was a crack in a wall). If I didn't say anthing, untill a month or so later, I'd have been charged, for "you didn't notify the landlord before you started living there", thus there's no proof that you didn't cause it.

=-=

Good luck, but as MorningStar said, you've left yourself a bit open.

Yet again thanks for the advice. But you like MorningStar try to give the impression you know a lot more than you probably do.

"It has happened in the past where the landlords "friend" has charged a bit more, on the reciept, for a certain item to be done. Don't feel cosy just because he has to show you a reciept. The right person could put down on the reciept that a bit of plaster filler in the wall cost €250 or so, when in fact it may have only cost him €15 to buy the filler and done it himself."

Honestly if anyone is caught out by the landlord doing the above I would be very suprised. Only someone with no sense of their rights would let a landlord pay over the top for work on their house with their own money (deposit).

Anyhow, I am not going to give feedback on all your comments. I do appreciate the feedback but I think yourself and MorningStar did not really have any concept of what advice they were giving. In the end up, I got detailed quotes for work needed and read up on what as a tenanat I was responsible for. I rang the up the estate agent, gave him an amount I wanted back and exactly why i wanted that amount back. Within 15mins he had rang the landlord and I was 10euro short of my amount. I got back an extra 300 euro. So as I said at the very top, I knew he was chancing his arm and I knew how to deal with it. I orginally just wanted to know who I needed to take a claim to, so I could read up on my rights etc.

Thanks for the advice and opinions.

MorningStar · 10-10-2005 11:39am

monkey24 wrote:

Yet again thanks for the advice. But you like MorningStar try to give the impression you know a lot more than you probably do.

A landlord for years with family in the business all my life. Compared to your knowledge and experience mentioned I don't think you sound like you know the reality of such things.

monkey24 wrote:

In the end up, I got detailed quotes for work needed...I rang the up the estate agent, gave him an amount I wanted back and exactly why i wanted that amount back

From this I gather you had never left the place which is what I was basing my advise on. It changes the whole thing if you had not moved out yet. Which when mentioned you should have said. I should have realised as you didn't answer any questions put to you , your intention was not to get advise but to vent or show how you are smart. :rolleyes:
You were being given adivse on a different situation becasue you didn't explain what was going on.

monkey24 · 10-10-2005 1:08pm

MorningStar wrote:

A landlord for years with family in the business all my life. Compared to your knowledge and experience mentioned I don't think you sound like you know the reality of such things.

From this I gather you had never left the place which is what I was basing my advise on. It changes the whole thing if you had not moved out yet. Which when mentioned you should have said. I should have realised as you didn't answer any questions put to you , your intention was not to get advise but to vent or show how you are smart. :rolleyes:
You were being given adivse on a different situation becasue you didn't explain what was going on.

Ha a landlord, well that accounts for the info and opinions given by you. I don't think anyone would find your advice very helpful to be honest. The point you made regarding the carpet was pretty much, one of the strangest things I have read on this topic. If you are a landlord then I am sure you do not spend 500 - 1000 euros on any sort of carpet in any property you rent out.

The problem here is, you decided I wanted advice on the situation when in fact I cleary stated in my first post, I was looking for info on where to take my case

"I wont go into further details but it looks like he wants to keep our deposit to fix his house up.

What is the procedure if you want to take him to a small claims court. And what kind of evidence do i need."

Not once did I ask, can I please have some advice on what I did wrong or right. In fact I didn't want to go into further details to avoid people like yourself, who's level of advice is to point out peoples failings and say tough luck. If you compare your post to that of Gerry_J you can see the difference in giving actual advice and trying to be smug.

Also you have made more assumptions. I have moved out of the house. I orginally only got a small part of the deposit back. I was unhappy about this. And through the actions I took, I got what I felt was owed.

And just to sum up. I was not once venting or trying to show how smart I was, I was asking where i could take the case and with what evidence. You deemed it neccessery to start giving your opinions on the situation even though i purposely didn't go into detail to avoid such posts.

Again thanks for your advice.

MorningStar · 10-10-2005 2:11pm

monkey24 wrote:

If you are a landlord then I am sure you do not spend 500 - 1000 euros on any sort of carpet in any property you rent out.

Well you would be wrong. I don't rent rooms as small as the one you mentioned. Most of my tennants stay years becasue I keep them to standard you may not be accustomed to.

monkey24 wrote:

Not once did I ask, can I please have some advice on what I did wrong or right.

Also you have made more assumptions. I have moved out of the house. I orginally only got a small part of the deposit back. I was unhappy about this. And through the actions I took, I got what I felt was owed.

Very odd with your details. I asked more than once about the deposit on the sitution. I always said if you can get info on the damage you would be in a strong situation and I still don't see how or why they would give you access to get accurate quotes.
Your assumption was the whole thing was a scam.

monkey24 wrote:

And just to sum up. I was not once venting or trying to show how smart I was, I was asking where i could take the case and with what evidence. You deemed it neccessery to start giving your opinions on the situation even though i purposely didn't go into detail to avoid such posts.

Again thanks for your advice.

You intentionally insulted people who offered you advise and more than implied we were idiots. The reason why you got opinion was becasue you were talking mostly opinion yourself, starting with the title and costant referance to scams.
Don't thank me if you aren't going to be respecful or think I don't know what I am talking about. If you want advise in the future bear in mind lack of details mean you don't get accurate responses.

the_syco · 11-10-2005 12:33am

monkey24 wrote:

The problem here is, you decided I wanted advice on the situation when in fact I cleary stated in my first post, I was looking for info on where to take my case

So... you were looking for info, but not info from people who know what they're on about...

monkey24 · 11-10-2005 11:27am

the_syco wrote:

So... you were looking for info, but not info from people who know what they're on about...

Where is your info ? You didn't mention anything about the PRTB or evidence needed. You just gave a lot of opinions that proved quite inaccurate.

MorningStar, I didn't give extra details because I didn't want opinions, I wanted info to the first two points. Oh yeah, I didnt need access to the house to get the quotes.

Landlord trying to steal our deposit

Comments