Pre and Post Flop Play in Cash Games

Iago

As I've mentioned already I'm new to cash games and I'm trying to find my way, so I'll probably make a lot more of these posts looking to harvest information from the more experienced players here.

At the moment my 50c/$1 stats are...unimpressive to say the least, my only consolation is that at only 6K hands the sample size is too small to be statistically relevant but big enough to make me analyse what way I'm playing the game...

VPIP : 22%
PFR: 6.5%
WSD: 49%
BB/100: 2.5% (up until last night it was around 6%, but a series of bad hands that led directly to this post greatly reduced it)

So with all this in mind I wanted to discuss my thoughts around pre-post flop play and hopefully have the error of my ways pointed out to me so that I can work on the right way to do things.

I think that generally speaking uniform play is good, i.e. if I decide I'm raising then I raise the same amount when I have AA as I do when I have 72o. Normally this raise will be to $3-$4-$5. This changes with position and previous action but when these factors are the same I make the same raise, and yet for reasons best known to someone else the players I'm playing against always seem to fold when I have AA or KK (unless of course they're holding AA!) and call when I'm making a move with a marginal hand. This happens far too often to be coincidence and I'm not raising enough for it to be because they are sick of my bullying!

Post-Flop I follow this up with a uniform bet regardless of how strong or weak my hand may be at that point (there are always exceptions to this of course, but I'm talking in general terms here) this bet is big enough to cause people to think before calling but small enough that I can get away from the hand if I feel I'm behind. Ultimately though I'm not making as much money as I should be making (see the BB/100 figure above...it's a lot lower than I would have expected) and I feel I'm making a lot of bad mistakes that are preventing me from getting paid off when I hit a flop hard.

How would you play the following hands, after making a preflop raise such as the one above and getting 1-2 callers with the following scenarios

1. You've an overpair to the flop, with 2 to a straight and flush draw available
2. You've hit top set on a nothing board
3. You've filled a boat on the flop
4. You've two overcards to the flop
5. You've hit an underpair to one or two cards on the flop
6. You've raised with JJ/QQ/KK and a Q/K/A has landed on the flop and there's a bet into you

Do you make different raises preflop depending on the strength of your hand alone, or do you change it around on the basis of who you're playing against (the KK hand I posted a while ago is the perfect example of a read on a player that affected my pre-flop play in a positive way)

I know a lot of this depends on your read of players and notes that you've taken but as I'm playing on a new site I have limited notes at present on players and when I'm 3-4 tabling I sometimes find it hard to get concrete reads on players at the table. I rely on going through pokertracker afterwards and updating notes for the most part.

I'm all ears for your instructions...

jimbling

Iago wrote:

I sometimes find it hard to get concrete reads on players at the table. I rely on going through pokertracker afterwards and updating notes for the most part.

I'm all ears for your instructions...

have you tried either using GameTime or PokerAceHud. These will display your porkertracker information right on the window, and they're both free. They don't give you everything, but it helps when multi-tabling. My preference is PokerAceHud


don't have time to go into the hand situation... and in all likelyhood, any advice from me will just make matters worse... just can't seem to do anything right of late :mad:

aidankk

it seems to me that 4 tabling, means abc poker, there is no time to identify the muppets on each table..

A lot of these players on ppp...

Might be more fun, to play maybe 2 tables, and wait for the inevitable all in merchants..


Also it seem on .5 1 nl , on ppp 5e is the only raise that gets head up..., anything else is 4 callers...

i normally raise 5 pre flop and continue with 10 post flop, if heads up... 4 out of 5 no caller....

Tackle

For raised pots:

1. I'm ready to lay this down if it's a high coordinated flop, 8109 for example, especially if there's more than one caller. You're not going to win much here, but you could loose your stack. If it's a low one I'll stick in an almost pot sized bet and see what happens, I'll probably be ready to give it up on the turn if a flush/straight card comes or there's more than one caller.

2. You have to check it or stick in a small bet, although that makes it painfully obvious to the good players. You'll just blow them off too easily unless with a big bet unless they have a decent pp or have been unlucky enough to flop two pair/smaller set. This is nearly the only time I let them play catch up (other than when I'm mixing it up).

3. It's unlikely you'll win much on this hand, although be wary of loosing your stack if an overcard comes and someone puts in a very big reraise after a big bet from you. Just call here, a higher house has destacked me a few times. Anyway, let them catch up here again, hopefully someone will make a decent hand and you can take a bit off them.

4. If I just have two overcards to a flop, I'll only call if the bet is very small in relation to the pot.

5. Almost pot sized bet if there's less than two callers(generally) and only one overcard. If there's more than two callers and there's two overcards/coordinated board I'll check it down.

6. If it's a moderate/small bet, I'll stick in a fairly big reraise. If I'm called they can have it if they bet on the turn. If they don't bet, it's a tough one, have they got the goods or are they drawing? You don't want to be be betting while you're almost drawing dead, so usually I'll just check it down, although checking the turn leaves you wide open to be bluffed on the river, cheaper in the long term though.

I'm in the middle of two games as I'm writing this so it might be a bit rough, just off the top of the head really.

Tackle

Iago wrote:

I think that generally speaking uniform play is good, i.e. if I decide I'm raising then I raise the same amount when I have AA as I do when I have 72o. Normally this raise will be to $3-$4-$5.

I generally raise the same all the time, but I'll alter it now and again to keep them guessing. Also it's no harm to raise with s h i te (not total s h i t e though) now and again to let them know that just because there's no high cards on the board doesn't mean you've missed your flop.

Post-Flop I follow this up with a uniform bet regardless of how strong or weak my hand may be at that point (there are always exceptions to this of course, but I'm talking in general terms here) this bet is big enough to cause people to think before calling but small enough that I can get away from the hand if I feel I'm behind.

How strong is this bet? I like to take the pot down there with a serious bet whether I hit or not and not worry about getting away from it later. If I'm called and I've nothing/don't improve I can get away from it easily enough with just one flop (and sometimes turn) bet. You don't want to be betting too weak and end up calling a big bet on the river.

I will mix it up though and not bet the flop every time I've raised prelop (even if I've hit).

Do you make different raises preflop depending on the strength of your hand alone, or do you change it around on the basis of who you're playing against (the KK hand I posted a while ago is the perfect example of a read on a player that affected my pre-flop play in a positive way)

I don't base raising amounts on the strength of hands. I raise based on what I what result I want, ie. get all the limpers to fold limping, get a caller on the button, stir it up. Generally though I'll raise the same amount every time.

I know a lot of this depends on your read of players and notes that you've taken but as I'm playing on a new site I have limited notes at present on players and when I'm 3-4 tabling I sometimes find it hard to get concrete reads on players at the table. I rely on going through pokertracker afterwards and updating notes for the most part.

Cut back to to two tables if you're not making a profit or feel you're under alot of pressure and not able to follow the action. There's still good money to be made on two tables. I'd say 80% of the time I'll only play two tables. Especially if two are going well and one isn't, I'll close the poor one.

Ste05

Great Thread Iago, has anyone else noticed that when they write a long message/reply it either doesn't go through or Internet Explorer crashes!!!!! So annoying, I spent about 20 minutes writing a reply then lost it!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

I might have another crack later, too pissed off now!!!!

Here are my unbacked up answers
There's reasons behind all these, but basically done for image, value, etc. etc. and all depend on opponent and number of callers, etc. etc.

1. Pot sized bet
2. 1/2 pot
3. check
4. check
5. 1/2 pot
6. Fold depending on player

Let the flames begin

EDIT: Forgot to mention that as with most people my basic premise is to always continuation bet the same amount to make reading me harder (between 1/2 - full pot sized) except in certain circumstances, such as above