Cash Game Scenarios ~ what would you do?

Iago

Being relatively new to cash games I find that I'm questioning my play a lot more than I normally do with STTs, not that I'm complacent around those games but I've played a lot more of those.

My current cash game stats are about 20 hours at .5/.10c and .10c/.20c and about 70 hours (5,500 hands) at .50/1 level. All the below scenarios are at that level. Please feel free to criticise any and all aspects of my play here as I'm sure I can learn a lot from the responses given.

1. Ah Qs UTG with a stack of $135, I raise to $4 and get two callers, mid position and the button. Flop comes down Ad 2c Jh. I bet $8, mid position folds and Button goes all-in for $64 in total. Call or fold?
No real information on the player, he's only been at the table for a few minutes.

2. On the BB with KK and it's folded around to the SB, we both have just over $110 he raises to $3, I re-raise to $10, he re-raises to $35. Call, raise or fold?
My notes state that he is generally very passive preflop, very aggresive post-flop. I've caught him trying to buy pots with nothing before and he seems to raise every time he sees a flop. On the flipside he wins a high % of hands when he does go to a showdown.

3. AA in mid-position, stack of $72 folded to me and I raise to $4, I get 3 callers. Flop comes down Ah 7h Qc. I'm first to act and I check, hoping to get someone to bet after me.

What is your play? If you're holding 77 instead of AA does that change your play dramatically?

4. QJ(h) with a stack of $156 in the BB it's raised to $4 by an early position raiser and the SB calls, you call and see a flop of Ks Th 7c. The initial raiser bets $10 and the SB pushes for $35, do you call, raise to isolate or fold?

5. On the button with 99 and a stack of $80, UTG min raises and it's folded around to me. This guy has been min-raising every hand preflop, I mean every hand. I raise to $6 and he calls. Flop comes down 8 5 3 rainbow, he immediately makes a bet of $15, I feel if I'm calling here then I should be pushing. I decide to push all-in and he calls, how would you have played this?

I'm interested to see how you would play these hands.

One other thing, if I find myself getting shortstacked at these tables, (i.e. if I drop to $40 or lower) I tend to rebuy back to the maximum, my thought being that if I get a good hand I want to make the most of it. Any thoughts on this strategy or whether I should be adopting a different approach.

BTW AA 18 times with a 88.5% win rate, KK 22 times with a 86.5% win rate...maybe online poker isn't rigged after all

NickyOD

1. Fold unless you know he's fool. Only hand you beat is a weaker Ace. He probably has a set or AJ/A2 even AK is possible.
2. Close your eyes and push.
3. It might sometimes but not on this flop. Bet your nuts here. There's a lot of hands you'll get action with. With 77 you should bet aswell especially with an Ace on the flop.
4. Fold.
5. 99 is usually not a preflop reraising hand in a cash game. I'd smooth call. Postflop its dificult, but it would have been easier if you'd kept the pot smaller. Then you could raise the flop with out commiting yourself to calling a push.

ianmc38

I think what NickyOd has said is about right. However scenario three i dont think I would jump straight in with trip aces. I think with a set of 7s there's a much better case for betting as you'll almost certainly get called by anyone holding an A or even better 2 pair. Betting trip aces on the flop when UTG could result in a fold around the table so you've earned nothing from a monster on the flop. However, that said depending on the tendency of the other players games, there would often be a case to bet in this situation...

Ste05

1. I'd fold here - AQ just isn't strong enough and you've shown strength the whole way and he's still not scared,

2. I think a call or to push in here would be fine, if he has AA so be it, :rolleyes:. Although he has shown serious strength here, I don't think the only hand he could have made this last re-raise with would be AA. A SB, against only the BB here would have a much wider hand range than just AA to make these plays, so an all-in might get all his money in now, or pick up a decent sized pot now, however I think a call would be an equally good play here, if he is as aggressive as stated post flop, you can nearly guarantee you'll get a big raise and you have position over him and assuming no A falls I'd call or get all my money in on this no A flop. I think what I'd do would depend on the actual situation.

3. I think I'd lead out with the AA here, just as I would with any continuation bet, the same as if I had raised with KK here....
For 77, I would have called pre-flop and depending on my opponents, I might lead out here or equally I could check around to an aggressive post flop player.

4. Fold.... No implied odds from the SB and not sure how attached the original raiser is to his hand, save my chips for a better spot,

5. Push is fine, IMHO, if he has a higher PP fair play to him, but with all these min-raises hard to put him on a big hand.


Shortstacked: I rebuy (once) if the table is good and I think there are at 3/4 fish/Loose players who have stacks that I think I can get. If I get to a situation where I have to re-buy again I leave unless the table is just prime for the taking, I just don't like to have the image of a loser and I want people to fold to my bets normally but if you're seen to have lost a few big pots, people will be more inclined to call.....just what I've noticed

Lafortezza

1. Fold

2. Push

3. Bet half the pot hoping to get raised.

4. fold

5. I'd push here but wouldn't be hapy about it.,

Lplate

1. Easy fold - he's representing 2 pair or a set.

2. Push - if you're behind so be it.

3. I'd make a decent bet here (about 75% pot) because there's a flush draw on board and a big chance of some sort of str8 draw after the turn. If someone flat calls the bet and the turn is blank I'd try to take it down before the river.

4. Easy fold - no odds to chase.

5. Difficult decision. As you say calling isn't good here so it depends on your read of the other player at the time. Based on the info you've given a push is ok but it's squeaky bum time if he calls.

Iago

in case anyone else wants to give their opinions, I'll leave the outcomes in spoilers.

1. I called, he turned over Ac3c and hit runner runner clubs for the flush. Horrendous bad beat, but afterwards I reflected that I really shouldn't have called him here unless I knew he was liable to bluff at it, so I kind of beat myself here. Ironically I don't think he felt he was bluffing...one for the notes.

2. I pushed...he had AA and spiked an A on the flop. If I had flat called I might have got away with some chips. I still think the push is the only move here, even though I felt he had to have AA to make the move from there. How often will you be wrong when you think that though?

3. Everyone checked and when the turn came blank I bet $6 to try and get some action, nobody was interested though. I wonder if there was a flush draw out there would they have called a bet on the flop? I'm not sure

4. I folded this, but felt I should have called, I would have hit my straight on the river, but I think the fold is the right move. K's and T's won it. I really wanted to call though, I get this compulsion when I see an open ended straight or a flush draw it's very costly, although T9s is my most profitable hand (mainly due to the house hand I posted earlier)

5. He was holding AKs and my 99 held up. If he hadn't been min-raising every hand I would have flat called preflop, but at the time I thought a raise was the right move. It worked out for me but I'm not convinced it was the right play.

PokerTony

Iago wrote:

One other thing, if I find myself getting shortstacked at these tables, (i.e. if I drop to $40 or lower) I tend to rebuy back to the maximum, my thought being that if I get a good hand I want to make the most of it. Any thoughts on this strategy or whether I should be adopting a different approach.

If you're playing $100 NL I would rebuy way before you drop to $40 say when you hit the $85-80 mark. I make a point of rebuying when I only drop 10% of my stack. If you're a good player it's pointless playing with a less than a nearly full stack.

Tyr

1. this is 0.5/1 almost 90% of the players or even more are fishes. as far as i know u can be up against J2 at the best u loking at a splitpot so would fold, but still noone at 05/1 can let go of an A I MEAN ANY A , even A/2 A/3 and so on.

2.Fold. its hard to let go of KK but still same here. at the best he got KK to (if its not a bluff) never seen anyone in a cashgame reraise a big reraise whitout AA (almost never).

3.U have to bet it so u dont give a free heart. It can cost you alot and its 4way action so someone probebly have the flushdraw. would make atleast 8 dollarbet. And bet the pot on the turn if its blank.

4.how big stack has the mainraiser? u got 3 way action whit and open + backdor flush. I would call. the mainraiser may have AK and if u hit he is potcomit and u get him all in. The low stacked who pushed probebly have K10 or KQ.

5.ALL IN! nothing else you can do exept fold.


Why is everyone saying push whit KK ? what can the otherguy have ? if its not a complet idiot whit QQ he cant have anything else then AA or possible KK to. AKs its out of the question. Noone moves all in whit AKs in cashgames and especily NOT against someone who raised a raiser to 10xBB!! . would say fold every time. mayby 1/10 you are ahead.

And another thing. He dident move all in. He made a 25 dollar raise. He wants you to call or move all in. Would throw it away in 1 sec not even think about it.

Hectorjelly

Hand 1 At 50 1 on vc against an unknown I would call and expect to be ahead a good proportion of the time

Hand 2 I think the advice so far has been bad. There is an alternative between folding and pushing

Hand 3 You should bet here, if noone has anything then they will fold on the turn anyway, but betting means its easier to stack someone with a medium hand. Checking is too suspicous and it what most morons do when they flop top set; be different.

Hand 4 you just have a st8 draw, so fold. If you had a flush draw as well you should just call. Raising all in is good if you dont like money

Hand 5 I play the same sometimes

Lafortezza

Tyr wrote:

1. this is 0.5/1 almost 90% of the players or even more are fishes. as far as i know u can be up against J2 at the best u loking at a splitpot so would fold, but still noone at 05/1 can let go of an A I MEAN ANY A , even A/2 A/3 and so on.

Tyr wrote:

AKs its out of the question. Noone moves all in whit AKs in cashgames and especily NOT against someone who raised a raiser to 10xBB!!

90% are fishes, nobody moves all-in with AKs?

Washout

I agree with hectorjellys comments

but i am really finding myself questioning the size of the raises at .05/.10 and .10/.20 levels...altough the amount of Fish at those levels are huge so it doesnt surprise me. although i dont ever recally coming across a game at those levels with those kind of stack sizes.

Iago

the games were all at the 50c/$1 level, not the micro limits. I was just mentioning them as that was the only previous experience I had before the last couple of weeks.

I was playing at a 50c/$1 table last night and found myself being the shortstack with $165, there were 3 players who had in excess of $500 at the table, every hand was raised preflop and it was difficult to make a move, unfortunately I didn't really find any hands, although I did get paid off when my Q9s in the BB found a flop of A 9 9, turn Q and a guy pushed for $100 with JTs...

There was one hand where a raise was made to $15 preflop and called by one guy. Flop came down 8 7 2 rainbow. Initial raiser bets $20, caller raises to $50, initial raiser goes all-in for $200 and gets called. Their hands

Initial Raiser: Ako
Caller: K7s

madness!

Iago

Hectorjelly wrote:

Hand 1 At 50 1 on vc against an unknown I would call and expect to be ahead a good proportion of the time

Well that was my thinking as well, afterwards I felt that maybe this is a situation where even though you know you're probably ahead you should still fold. Although I don't like that particular strategy myself

Hectorjelly wrote:

Hand 2 I think the advice so far has been bad. There is an alternative between folding and pushing

Would you flat call and fold if there is an A on the flop? Can you expand on what you mean?

Hectorjelly wrote:

Hand 3 You should bet here, if noone has anything then they will fold on the turn anyway, but betting means its easier to stack someone with a medium hand. Checking is too suspicous and it what most morons do when they flop top set; be different.

You're right of course, but I don't feel that I'm getting paid off enough when I have AA or KK, either pre or post flop everybody is folding. I'd been playing quite aggressively, betting out when I hit a hand and I was hoping that my previous play would lead them to believe that maybe I had missed it. Didn't work though

Hectorjelly wrote:

Hand 4 you just have a st8 draw, so fold. If you had a flush draw as well you should just call. Raising all in is good if you dont like money

Very true and it's exactly the kind of move I shake my head at someone else making...but it's so pretty though....

Hectorjelly wrote:

Hand 5 I play the same sometimes

So I'm not a total loss then

Imposter

Iago wrote:

There was one hand where a raise was made to $15 preflop and called by one guy. Flop came down 8 7 2 rainbow. Initial raiser bets $20, caller raises to $50, initial raiser goes all-in for $200 and gets called. Their hands

Initial Raiser: Ako
Caller: K7s

madness!

With a very large stack you can sometimes (as in do it occasionally to counteract a very aggressive player) afford to call with marginal hands. In saying that though I wouldn't call K7s a marginal hand.

Tyr

lafortezza wrote:

90% are fishes, nobody moves all-in with AKs?

Was tierd when i wrot it. Noone is gonna raise a 10xBB reraser whit AKs I meant. If its not a lowstack whit 30 chips or so.

hotspur

1) At microlimits I would respect an all in reraise from a player with a good stack more than higher up. At .50/1 if a player with a 70% stack prior to hand goes all in with a reraise on a 3 suited flop you're almost certainly a dead man. Fold.
2) Quit poker if you're not gonna push all in with KK preflop in a blind battle
3) 3 callers is too many to be screwing around with that flop, yes you have top set but it only takes 1 card but crack you and it could be any heart, K, J, 10. With 77 you might bet less to induce the reraise so you can jam it again.
4) Fold and curse the K for not being a heart
5) Reraising preflop with position is fine against this guy, as is reraising his postflop bet, but why to an all in? Surely a raise to say $35 or $40 will take the pot if you're ahead, any extra is just a little tip for him for being ahead.

Btw how does one read the spoiler blacked out sentenced?

Hectorjelly

in the KK hand you have both quite clearly defined your hands, you both have AA KK QQ maybe AK. If you go all in he will fold everything bar AA and KK, he will fold QQ. So your bet will only get called if your beaten, hence its a losing play.

Zab

1. Been a while since I've played .50/1 but I'd need some sort of read to call this. The two largest groups that I remember doing this either always had two pair or better or always had a very weak hand. It pays to know who is who. The ones that do this with air/near air rarely do it with made hands (obviously this is a generalisation).

2. It's tough to fold KK preflop, but by your description of SB he is only making this play with aces. If you push you'll fold QQ/AK unless you're generally hyper-aggressive preflop. As I'm not in the hand I say fold, but I often don't in this situation (and usually end up vs AA).

3. Bet. The only good reason I can see to check here is if one of the callers is likely to take a stab at the pot with air. Are you planning to check-raise? Are you hoping that somebody will make a second best hand on the turn? The only turn that you really want to see is a queen. Other turned hands are likely to beat you. I think way too many people check here against non-tricky competition.

4. This is generally a fold unless the initial raiser will be knocked into passive mode by the action. These players are great and surprisingly common. For instance, there are a lot of players who will flat-call here and flat-call a $20 bet on a blank turn. I hate raising.

5. I like this, but I like it better if you're not bluffing (by this I mean that he is likely to call with hands that you beat). Against other oppostion it's better to let them do the betting. I'm assuming you think you're ahead.

I never let my stack drop below 90% unless I'm changing strategy (which means I never let my stack drop below 90%). There is nothing worse than ending up short-stacked on the wrong hand because of action during the prior hand. Okay, there may be some things that are worse.

Iago

Hectorjelly wrote:

in the KK hand you have both quite clearly defined your hands, you both have AA KK QQ maybe AK. If you go all in he will fold everything bar AA and KK, he will fold QQ. So your bet will only get called if your beaten, hence its a losing play.

So is your advice to flat call here and then fold to a bet if an A comes out on the flop? What if a Q lands on the flop and he makes a pot sized or slightly over pot sized bet?

Had a similar hand last night, two limpers and I raised to $5 with KK from button-1.

The SB re-raises to $10, and the guy who limped UTG goes all-in for $55. The SB only has $25 left, and I've about $110 left. I called and the SB called, 99 & QQ respectively and the KK held up!! I was convinced that one of them was going to turn over AA but not this time.

Taking their hands out of consideration, should I have folded here?

hotspur

Folding KK in a cash game just based on the size of the amount bet is absolutely insane. Maybe if you're grinding it out like a Knish and you won't get to eat / pay yuor rent if you lose (in which case you're playing too high anyway or shouldn't be playing NL cash). Personally I have folded KK once ever preflop in a cash game to a guy who I knew to be the tightest imaginable and he had the bullets. I really find it difficult to imagine someone being a successful cash player if they would fold KK preflop cause someone went all in. The odds of *that* guy specifically having AA are 220-1, what kind of edge are you looking for?

Iago

Granted, folding KK is not something that I've ever considered until recently, for all the reasons you mention above. However the 220-1 is a bit of a misnomer, based on betting patterns and confidence shown you have to reduce the possible holding down to a few hands AA, KK, QQ, Ak and if he's really bad AQ or AJ (really really bad) so out of those options what hand would you put him on if you've raised to 15*BB and he has not only called but pushed all-in?

I see Hectors point on this completely, I still don't think I could fold or flat call here, but the rationale behind it the premise of either of those strategies is sound. It's not that the player goes all-in, it's previous betting patterns and the conviction behind the bet made.

In the second example, you have two players who are both willing to commit their entire stacks preflop, it made me think before calling. You have to assume that at least one of them is holding AK or AA, the QQ I can understand but the 2nd caller with 99 completely shocked me. Folding there would not have been the worst move in the world before the hands were revealed imho.

Mark J

haven`t read the results...
agree with all nicky says except for 5.

PUSH.

NickyOD wrote:

1. Fold unless you know he's fool. Only hand you beat is a weaker Ace. He probably has a set or AJ/A2 even AK is possible.
2. Close your eyes and push.
3. It might sometimes but not on this flop. Bet your nuts here. There's a lot of hands you'll get action with. With 77 you should bet aswell especially with an Ace on the flop.
4. Fold.
5. 99 is usually not a preflop reraising hand in a cash game. I'd smooth call. Postflop its dificult, but it would have been easier if you'd kept the pot smaller. Then you could raise the flop with out commiting yourself to calling a push.