National No Net day ?

yellum

Wasn't there something like this before ? Would this be practical to implement ? Would it make any difference ? It would need to be done by most SME's too to make some sort of impact.

dahamsta

Wasn't there something like this before ?

Was there?

Would this be practical to implement ?

Don't see why not. You'd need media attention, but IrelandOffline has a bit more pull in that area these days.

Would it make any difference ?

Hmmm... The cynic in me is saying no, but it would depend on the support you get. If you got a lot of support, and lots of media attention, and traffic dropped off considerably, it might make them sit up and take notice, particularly if we threatened to repeat it until they started tackling it. It's a lot of ifs, and I don't think it would really bother the ISP's much, but it could potentially embarrass the government with negative publicity, particularly with an election looming.

It would need to be done by most SME's too to make some sort of impact.

The problem with SME's is that many of them use the Internet for day to day operations. In my case, I could just take a day off, but for many that wouldn't be possible. Of course, if we could convince a number of them to take their sites offline with a message saying "we can't run our business today because we're protesting", that would be a coup d'etat...

adam

corkie

If their ever is chance of organising a no net day/weekend!

Why not make it a complete 'No using the phone day!'
(except in emergencies)

I can just imagine the reaction from the Loss in revenue for the telco's on that day! :rolleyes:

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jaarius

i would be up for that. you could start contacting companies asking them to stop using their comms for a day and if they refuse then have a web site up that these companies are anti consumer...

name and shame (whata band waggon)


j

The Sweeper

Guys, not to be unsupportive, but you're not going to convince a sufficient number of companies to give up their internet support for a day for this to be constructive.

There are a whole pile of companies out there who aren't going to accept the loss that a full day's downtime will make.

Ever heard your office manager person on to eircom or someone if your internet/email is down? Usually the complaint involves a line like 'we are a blahdy blah company, and this downtime will cost us xyz amount, this service is disgraceful etc.'

A 'National No Net' day is a great idea, but we'll have to come at it differently.

(And useless as I am, I have no earth shattering suggestions as to how we can do it. I'll keep thinking.)

dahamsta

I see your point minesajackdaniels, but I think if you give enough notice (a month say) and a logical, reasoned explanation (no problem there), it's quite possible you'd get more support than you'd normally expect. Especially from SME's that use the net quite a lot, since they are the ones we're campaiging for and will get most support from. We don't really care about big business that much remember, they can afford leased lines.

I'd do it anyway, and I reckon I could convince nearly all of my customers to do it too. Better, I could take all of their sites offline in about a minute or so and replace them with a protest page...

adam

Mountjoy Mugger

Originally posted by dahamsta
Better, I could take all of their sites offline in about a minute or so and replace them with a protest page...

adam

I'd only go down this path if my clients were agreeable to it...

That said, I remember a few (two or three) when a number of these campaigns kicked off in Europe - Germany springs to mind. The vast majority of users who took part were individuals. A mass education campaign started the ball rolling with sites such as the Register giving info on the effort.

If IOFFL were to organise an awareness campaign about such a proposed venture and get the media roped in, the telcos of this fine land might just realise that so long as they operate with such total apathy the customer might just bite back now and again.

Just my tuppence worth.

MM

dahamsta

I'd only go down this path if my clients were agreeable to it...

I hope it's obvious that that's what I meant!

adam

ando

I work for an IT networking company supporting small and medium sized companies. No offence, but I Personally think that there is no chance for this to happen wide scale. The companies just realy on the internet and email to much for this 'no net day' to happen...

dragonkin

I personally don't think that you are going to get companies to give up a whole day of internet it just isn't feasible and not enough ppl would be willing to do it.

A much better option in my opinion is to take out a full page ad in The Irish Times or another national newspaper; denouncing Eircom like Ryanair did and ask lots of SMEs/individuals to make a donation towards this. I personally think they are more likely to pay a small sum towards an add than shut down all internet communications for a day and I also think it will make more of an impact as there is nothing like bad publicity to make a company sit up and take notice.

This would also give Ireland Offline much needed publicity.

Does anyone know how much this sort of thing would cost?

Gladiator

id support a no net day, but a no phone day would be pointless as it probably wouldnt be obayied.

i like this idea because its something all 1000 members can take part in, not matter were they are, something like 40% of all phonecalls are internet.

ive allways said that to get this to work we need to hit there pockets, if it works out well, then we could organize a monthly no internet day. if every single member did it that could be as much as 10,000 a month over 12 months is 120,000. i think eircom would be asking to meet us if we started to cost them that much.

and of curse the more press we got the better.

strat

Originally posted by yellum
Would this be practical to implement ? Would it make any difference ?

the irony is that u wood use the internet to implement this and commuicate between all involved

dahamsta

Originally posted by dragonkin
Does anyone know how much this sort of thing would cost?

A fortune.

http://www.ireland.com/mediainfo/print/printrates.htm

adam

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Originally posted by yellum
Wasn't there something like this before ? Would this be practical to implement ? Would it make any difference ? It would need to be done by most SME's too to make some sort of impact.

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick here Yellum.

There is indeed a national NO NET Day in the USA. Its actually Thanksgiving Day.

But....
Its purpose is to prompt very heavy users & other ppl who spend their lives online, to spend more time w/ their family etc. away from their pc's etc. The idea is to go cold turkey from anything PC related-ie-the internet- for 24 hrs

If on the other hand you're suggesting there be a boycott of the telecommunications infrastructure on a given day??
Nice idea but the cost implication is huge & given the dependancy we all have on the telephone lines etc., the reaction from the Telco's would be neglible because they know we'll all be wired up the next day:(

dahamsta

90% of them could live without their websites for a day though, which is the point I was trying to get across (admittedly, quite badly ).

adam

yellum

Originally posted by 80project.com


I think you've got the wrong end of the stick here Yellum.

I don't think I did, it was my naming of it that might have been wrong. It was that thing in Germany I was talking about that Mountjoy mentioned.

Right, maybe not using the net by smes won't work. Taking down our websites and client websites might work though after securing permission. Or change the frontpages to black as was done by some campaign before .

Does anyone know how campaigns like this in other countrys worked out ? Might be a good idea to talk to experienced people in situations like our own.

kamobe

I think if this is put forward to said companies in the correct manor it will work. For instance, someone earlier mentioned about each company would loose x amount of money a day if they dont use the net.

How many "x's" would they save over ten years if they had flat rate broadband access?

Although it is indeed a large sacriface to ask for, if this could be done it certainly would hit home and most definately make Eircom sit up and listen. Especially is this were to become a regular occasion.

Hopefully of course such drastic action won't be necessary, and eircom will suprise us all be listening to the regulator, and most importantly, to their customers.

Delphi91

Originally posted by dragonkin

Does anyone know how much this sort of thing would cost?

Well, I remember a few years ago when a certain Irish singer took out a full page ad in the Irish Times to publish a poem of hers and at the time, it was reputed to have cost £13,000!!! And that was a good few years back - I'm sure it's gone up lots since then.

Sounds like you'd need a hell of a lot of donations and fundraising to fund that!

Mike

dahamsta

yellum: I don't think black websites is or was ever a good idea, it doesn't say anything. If I was going to do it, I would ask people to replace their website with a single page representing IrelandOffline and its goals, and linking to the IrelandOffline website. One logo and some text, that's it. That would be the suggested method - if they were unwilling to do that, they could of course protest in their own way.

kamobe: Very good point, very well made. I should point out before I go into my rant however that I do see other people's points - many, many companies just cannot or will not shut down their comms for the day. But that doesn't mean that a small proportion couldn't have a dramatic affect.

Delphi91: It's actually still about that, or at least not much more. ("Much" being relative.) Still far too much for an organisation like IrelandOffline though, at least right now.

<RANT>

I still believe that if we do follow through on this, we should not restrict ourselves to just websites. I'm just speaking on behalf of my own company now, but based on the aforementioned timely notice and clear justification (propoganda) that would need to be supplied by IrelandOffline, I for one would have no problem with taking down ALL of our websites; turning on my autoresponders; and turning on my answering machine for the entire day (the latter two would also have messages explaining why). I would also encourage my clients and associates to do the same.

Wait now before you jump in and repeat what's already been said in three or four other posts. Let me address the two main issues:

1. Many firms would just not be able to take part.

This is undoubtedly true, but remember one of the points Martin made at the seminar that was actually picked up on quite heavily by the popular media - many of the IrelandOffline supporters are running small development shops with one, two or three staff. You get ten of them, you'll attract attention to the organisation. Get fifty and you'll attract the attention of the local media. Get a hundred and you'll attract the national media. Get any more than that and you'll knock the IrelandOffline website over. And that's on top of the people who can afford to take their website down but not the rest of their communications infrastructure.

And there's also a slight advantage that I'm amazed nobody's mentioned yet, and could be mentioned to prospective participants - imagine how much work you could get done by cutting the customer out of the loop for one day? Think about all those days that the phone didn't stop ringing and you just wished for one day of quiet so you could get all your coding done in peace, with no interruptions. It'd be a bloody godsend for many.

1. The telco's/ISP's couldn't give a damn, they'll know you'll be back tommorrow.

Again, true as day, at least the second part. But you can be sure that if the protest is successful, their marketing departments will be screaming blue murder, because the least they can afford now is more negative publicity. They're only just starting to realise that we're not going away, we're not Just Another Action Group they can discount. Any more bad publicity and we genuinely do have a good chance of drawing the attention of the regular punter who hasn't heard of us yet - be they small businesspeople or consumers - to the money they're paying for comms. And if there's a group we really need, it's the regular punter.

What I'm trying to say here is aim high. If you aim low, with just webpages, you will have an affect, I won't deny that. But if you aim high and try and get people - some people - to shut down their communications for just one day, you'll make them - the media and the government primarily, but also the OLO's and maybe even Eircom - really sit up and take notice. They won't have any excuses any more, they'll have nothing to hide behind, and most importantly they'll have to do something.

</RANT>

adam

yellum

Adam/ Dahmasta lead us to the promised land ! Seriously good points. You are right, aiming high is the right idea. A quiet day of coding is good or a day in the fresh air.

Alright maybe a redirect on the day to an IrelandOffline page explaining what the heck is happening would be better than the black page.

Even if only people had homepages and not business websites over 1000 websites shutting down for the day would gain a lot of publicity.

dahamsta

Good point. Hey Bard, just out of interest, how 'bout asking someone up the ladder how many boards.ie users have homepages?

SELECT count(*) FROM user WHERE homepage!='http://' AND homepage!='';

adam

kamobe

This is the type of action that will spread accross colleges very quickly. A nice simple effective way to spread the word throughout the industry

dahamsta

Hup.

hint hint

adam

disConnected

Originally posted by dahamsta


.....1. Many firms would just not be able to take part......

[/B]

Just left this standing for you to recognize which post I am replying to:

Adam, I think you had another excellent idea.
The only thing I am missing here is the involvement of the consumers (meaning the people who do not have a business).

What if we actually make a kind of a 'long weekend' of net-access boycott out of this:
Maybe the companies start on a Friday with their boycott. Followed by the consumers on Saturday and Sunday. The firms could actually ask their customers not to use the Internet for the following weekend (will we junkies survive that??? ).
I assume a drastic drop of internet traffic will not let the suppliers of the services untouched.

I am looking forward to hear a date now (what about the November Bank Holiday weekend? - that leaves 6 weeks to organize the show)...