Vehicle registration question

IDMUD

I have a small problem with vehicle registration here in Ireland.

I drive a foreign company car of which I am a citizen here in Ireland where I also work for another company. The car is used in all of europe. Given that I'm going to live here for a while and as such am not allowed to own and drive a foreign car here this presents som problems. Any one have an idea of how I should sort this out? The VRO will probably not help as they're going to think I'm in this for scamming the state which is not my intention, I just need to be able to drive the car in europe...

ds20prefecture

If you live here, you should register the car here. It'll make life easier. There is no reason why you cannot drive an irish registered car anywhere in Europe.

IDMUD

ds20prefecture wrote:

If you live here, you should register the car here. It'll make life easier. There is no reason why you cannot drive an irish registered car anywhere in Europe.

The company can not own and insure a foreign vehicle.

jayok

The company can not own and insure a foreign vehicle.

Ah, then you do not "own" the car. As such you do not have to register it here, it can remain registered in its "home" country and you are simply authorised to drive it. VRT only applies for your own car (i.e. in you personal name)

IDMUD

jayok wrote:

Ah, then you do not "own" the car. As such you do not have to register it here, it can remain registered in its "home" country and you are simply authorised to drive it. VRT only applies for your own car (i.e. in you personal name)

Sounds good, I'll run it by the oh-so-helpful VRO next week just to be sure, thanks.

junkyard

Not wishing to sound over confident here, but do I see a loophole here as regards driving a foreign registered car in Ireland?

IDMUD

junkyard wrote:

Not wishing to sound over confident here, but do I see a loophole here as regards driving a foreign registered car in Ireland?

Loophole or not, I don't see how Ireland has the right to deny companies the right to operate on its soil. The thing to remember is that I have the same nationality as the company in question and years of employment proof.

junkyard

I agree with you, but regarding ownership of the car, if this is the case there is nothing stopping me from going to England, buying a car, taxing it, insuring it, registering it to a company address in England and bringing it back home. Then I no longer have to worry about penalty points, speeding offences, high road tax and insurances. I'm not arguing with you about this but I do think that it would open the floodgates for everyone to do the same.

IDMUD

junkyard wrote:

I agree with you, but regarding ownership of the car, if this is the case there is nothing stopping me from going to England, buying a car, taxing it, insuring it, registering it to a company address in England and bringing it back home. Then I no longer have to worry about penalty points, speeding offences, high road tax and insurances. I'm not arguing with you about this but I do think that it would open the floodgates for everyone to do the same.

You'd have to have a company willing to foot the bill for the car and your employment (only employees are allowed to drive company cars). But yeah, it's the way the EU works, there's nothing Ireland can do to stop cross-border business.

junkyard

I own a company in Ireland so all I have to do is open a branch in the U.K.?

IDMUD

junkyard wrote:

I own a company in Ireland so all I have to do is open a branch in the U.K.?

This is all of course IF the vro will accept it without going to court first (like the vrt deal, the EU-court is currently putting a stop to that).

The way I believe it can work is that you have a foreign company owning a foreign car, all good and legal. You as a person, is employed by the company and are thereby legally allowed to drive the company car with valid insurance (insurance will only cover employed drivers). So far all good and not a doubt that it works.

Here's the tricky part, when the employee is a resident of another eu-country things might get tricky as the said countries goverment may try to stop its resident from driving the foreign company car. What I hope and believe are in right to, is to drive the foreign car since I:

A) Have a drivers license issued in that country
Have an address in the country where I live a few times per year.
C) Are an employee of the company owning the car

All of this should be sufficient reason for me to drive the car in ANY eu-country the company wish to operate in regardless of where I'm currently a resident.

Like I said, we'll see what the ******* at the vro says on monday.

junkyard

I hope it works out for you, I'd be very interested to see how you get on. Keep us posted! ....pardon the pun.

Victor

IDMUD wrote:

The car is used in all of europe.

I can see this as a get-out clause, but you being Irish-citizen, Irish-resident may be a problem.

Rodney Trotter

It is illegal for a resident of the Rep of Ireland to drive a foreign registered car. (This came up in another forum recently, it's becoming quite common for people to try to evade VRT tax.)

It doesn't matter what your citizenship is or where your licence is from.

IDMUD

Rodney Trotter wrote:

It is illegal for a resident of the Rep of Ireland to drive a foreign registered car. (This came up in another forum recently, it's becoming quite common for people to try to evade VRT tax.)

It doesn't matter what your citizenship is or where your licence is from.

I can see why you wouldn't be allowed to drive a privatly registered car. This being a comercial vehicle used to perform my job should over-ride that law, if not, it's just matter of getting the eu-courts attention. A country going against european trade laws is frowned upon.

jayok

Rodney Trotter wrote:

It is illegal for a resident of the Rep of Ireland to drive a foreign registered car. (This came up in another forum recently, it's becoming quite common for people to try to evade VRT tax.)

It doesn't matter what your citizenship is or where your licence is from.

Well you need to extend this statement a little further to be completely true:

It is illegal for a resident of the Rep of Ireland to drive a foreign registered car if such foreign car is owned by them or another resident of the Rep of Ireland. If you do not OWN the car then you cannot be held liable for its registration.

Obviously there's room here for people to use this as a means for evading tax, however, in IDMUD's situation this is not the case. To keep things above boards you may need to get special permission from the Revenue Commissioners regarding this case. An officer will review the case and assign you an exemption number (provided everything is correctly stated). This is a very unique situation and crosses a number of legal areas. e.g. the definition of residency and the 90 day rule.

Actually with a little more thought, I don't think you will get the VRT rules changed but I think the issue may be addressed under the non-residency rules.

Rodney Trotter

jayok wrote:

Well you need to extend this statement a little further to be completely true:

It is illegal for a resident of the Rep of Ireland to drive a foreign registered car if such foreign car is owned by them or another resident of the Rep of Ireland. If you do not OWN the car then you cannot be held liable for its registration.

...............................

Nope. It is illegal for a resident of the Republic to drive a foreign registered car, absolutely. Otherwise all the employees of UK companies, domiciled here could drive co.cars with UK plates. There is no exemption and as you can see, on revenue website, any foreign car must have VRT paid within 24/48 hours.

What's this crap about you cannot be held liable for the registration if you don't own the car? If the car is foreign you cannot drive it. Simple.

In the OP case, he cannot live in Ireland and drive a foreign registered car.

If caught you will have your car impounded.


No point moaning about EU-trade laws. Cars are not included in free-trade and tax harmonisation laws. There is a derrogation to cover them.

Pay up, or lose your wheels, lad.

ambro25

Rodney Trotter wrote:

Otherwise all the employees of UK companies, domiciled here could drive co.cars with UK plates.

Not if they own the car (i.e. the co. pays for maintenance & petrol, but *optionally* gives them €€€ to buy the car and register in their own name)

Yes if the company which employs them owns the car (the V5 has the co. name as owner)

...is the point that has been made in the thread so far.

Rodney Trotter wrote:

No point moaning about EU-trade laws. Cars are not included in free-trade and tax harmonisation laws. There is a derrogation to cover them.

Source (please )?

prospect

What about Irish Truckers who drive for British hauliers?
Many of them drive English reg trucks daily across Ireland and the UK?

Rodney Trotter

ambro25 wrote:

Not if they own the car (i.e. the co. pays for maintenance & petrol, but *optionally* gives them €€€ to buy the car and register in their own name)

Yes if the company which employs them owns the car (the V5 has the co. name as owner)

...is the point that has been made in the thread so far.



Source (please )?

How many times does someone have to be told for a message to get through.

If you are "RESIDENT" in Rep of Ireland, i.e. you live for more thant 183 days in a year, it is ILLEGAL to drive a foreign registered car. This means, N.Ireland, England, Scotland, Wales, France, Germany etc, even Latvia Lituania Poland etc.
(w.r.t. enforcement, it's up to the officers of the Customs and Excise, not the Gardai. It's fairly obvious they are not doing a good job.)


If your employer is in the UK, they cannot supply you with a UK registered car. (I know this for a fact.)

You will find most Insurance companies will not offer extended, long-term, cover on a UK car in Ireland, usually limiting it to 30 days cover to alow you make the necessary import measures.


What reference do you want? Look through the necessary revenue website sections or Givt Publications. If you don't want to believe, then fair enough.

ambro25

Rodney Trotter wrote:

What reference do you want?

Something to sustain this:

Rodney Trotter wrote:

If your employer is in the UK, they cannot supply you with a UK registered car. (I know this for a fact.)

...specifically.

Rodney Trotter wrote:

You will find most Insurance companies will not offer extended, long-term, cover on a UK car in Ireland, usually limiting it to 30 days cover to alow you make the necessary import measures.

...and I "know for a fact" that this is not factual, having had UK ins on a UK plate in IE for well over than period, actually 6 months (the term under which you either import or go back under IE registration-specific statutes), renewable

Not looking for an argument, Rodney, as I'm very interested in the facts pertaining to this thead as well... Just after exactitude of information, is all.

IDMUD

Like someone else said, what about truckers, they drive a foreign car in their state of residence. And bringing up insurance just shows how little you know, of course companies have international insurance.

Alun

OK, just suppose this was legal for a moment (which IIRC it isn't). What would prevent everyone in Ireland popping over to <insert cheap motoring country of your choice>, making friends with a local who would then buy, insure, and tax a car for you and then (for a small fee!) "lend" it to you to take back to Ireland and drive to your heart's content? Doesn't sound plausible, does it?

I also don't see what difference it would make whether it was a private individual or a company that was doing it, the principal still stands.

I've been in a similar situation, working for a Dutch company in Germany, where I couldn't drive my Dutch registered company car in Germany and the company had to lease cars from a German lease company instead.

Rodney Trotter

IDMUD wrote:

Like someone else said, what about truckers, they drive a foreign car in their state of residence. And bringing up insurance just shows how little you know, of course companies have international insurance.

Truckers driving foreign cars? What are you on about? It is illegal for an Irish resident to drive a foreign car, end of story.

Insurance? Check what I said, please. Most Ins Co.s, not all, have a clause on foreign registered cars. Being in Ireland, I specifically referred to Irish Insurance companies. Bring up what a UK Insurance co does is not relevant to this topic and a temporary importation is also changing the subject.

Search the Revenue site. http://www.revenue.ie/publications/leaflets/infolef7_o.htm

Here's one section. Is it clear?.

VEHICLE REGISTRATION TAX

Foreign Registered Vehicles , Temporary Exemptions - VRT 2

1. Introduction

This leaflet outlines the circumstances in which a foreign registered motor vehicle may be brought into the Republic of Ireland (the State) on a temporary basis.

The circumstances in which a foreign registered vehicle may be brought into the State vary depending on whether the vehicle is intended for private or commercial use.



PRIVATE USE

2. What Conditions Apply
Any imported vehicle which is owned by or registered in the name of a non-resident person is not required to be registered in Ireland subject to the following conditions :

* The vehicle must have been acquired with all the appropriate taxes paid and these must not have been exempted or refunded in any way. The standard registration plates in use in the domestic market of a country are normally accepted as evidence of this.
* The vehicle may not in any circumstances be driven by a State resident.
* The vehicle may not be disposed of or hired out in the State or lent to a State resident.
* The period of time that the vehicle is in the State does not exceed 12 months.
* The 12 months time limit will not apply where a person is on a task of definite duration in the State.

3. What is meant by "State resident" and "non-resident" ?

A "State resident" is a person whose normal residence is in the Republic of Ireland and a "non-resident" is anyone whose normal residence is outside this State. "Normal residence" means the place where a person usually lives (for at least 185 days each year) because of personal or occupational ties.

If a person's occupational ties are in a different country from his/her personal ties, then the country of personal ties is taken as the normal residence provided the person returns there regularly.

A person who is normally resident in the State but who lives outside the State primarily for the purpose of attending a school or university is regarded as a State resident.

That is for a CAR, not a commercial vehicle. A Car is not deemed a COMMERCIAL vehicle in any circumstance.
For COMMERCIAL VEHICLES, i.e. Vans and TRUCKS, i.e. non Category-A vehicles (CARS)

11. Can a state resident drive a foreign registered vehicle for business use?

Yes, but in the following circumstances only:-

* A State resident who is employed by the non-resident owner of a commercial foreign registered vehicle other than a Category A vehicle or a motorcycle is eligible to drive that vehicle for business use on behalf of the owner.
* A State resident who is an employee of a car-hire firm established outside the State is allowed to drive a vehicle for the purpose of returning it to the firm after the vehicle was left in the State on expiry of a hire contract.
* In other circumstances where authorised in writing by the Revenue Commissioners.

And this is my final contribution on the subject. Drive whatever car you want, my friend, and be prepared for the consequences. I'm sure your employer would love you to have THEIR car impounded.

prospect

Alun wrote:

OK, just suppose this was legal for a moment (which IIRC it isn't). What would prevent everyone in Ireland popping over to <insert cheap motoring country of your choice>, making friends with a local who would then buy, insure, and tax a car for you and then (for a small fee!) "lend" it to you to take back to Ireland and drive to your heart's content? Doesn't sound plausible, does it?

Off the top of my head;
You'd be paying for the car (although the paperwork wouldn't say so), so you could easily get screwed if your 'friend' reported it stolen.
Also, if you claim it is a company car, you'd have to pay BIK on top of the purchase cost, so it would probably work out more expensive in the long run.

MercMad

See the facts boys........taken from the Revenue site

11. Can a state resident drive a foreign registered vehicle for business use?

Yes, but in the following circumstances only:-

A State resident who is employed by the non-resident owner of a commercial foreign registered vehicle other than a Category A vehicle or a motorcycle is eligible to drive that vehicle for business use on behalf of the owner.
A State resident who is an employee of a car-hire firm established outside the State is allowed to drive a vehicle for the purpose of returning it to the firm after the vehicle was left in the State on expiry of a hire contract.
In other circumstances where authorised in writing by the Revenue Commissioners.

ambro25

A State resident who is employed by the non-resident owner of a commercial foreign registered vehicle other than a Category A vehicle or a motorcycle is eligible to drive that vehicle for business use on behalf of the owner

Aah, see - that wasn't so hard now, was it?

That's all I was asking, no need to be galloping at 30,000 feet

EDIT - next question, what is/isn't a Cat.A vehicle? Is there a list accessible somewhere?

EDIT #02 - a crewcab is not a Cat A, it's a Cat B. So, therefore, Animal (or equivalent) on UK or FR or L plates driven by me in IE and provided by my UK or FR or L company by which I am employed is OK, presumably?

Alun

11. Can a state resident drive a foreign registered vehicle for business use?

Yes, but in the following circumstances only:-

A State resident who is employed by the non-resident owner of a commercial foreign registered vehicle other than a Category A vehicle or a motorcycle is eligible to drive that vehicle for business use on behalf of the owner.
A State resident who is an employee of a car-hire firm established outside the State is allowed to drive a vehicle for the purpose of returning it to the firm after the vehicle was left in the State on expiry of a hire contract.
In other circumstances where authorised in writing by the Revenue Commissioners.

It quite clearly states that we're talking about commercial vehicles here, and purely for business use only.

Alun

ambro25 wrote:

EDIT - next question, what is/isn't a Cat.A vehicle? Is there a list accessible somewhere?

It's on my driving licence ... Category A is a motorbike.

IDMUD

The thing to remeber is that the vehicle is registered as a "light truck" that means no back seat and as such only allowed one passenger. What class of vehicle would that be in irish terms?

ambro25

Alun wrote:

It's on my driving licence ... Category A is a motorbike.

No, the VRT manual defines a Cat A vehicle as pretty much any car/SUV/van, or a bike. Cat A on an IE license might not equate to the tax meaning of 'Cat A vehicle', check the VRT manual (pdf, follow Rodney's link to the RC info site)

Crewcab not classed as 'A', but 'B' (along with motor home)

@IDMUD - download & check the manual, I think it might still be classed an 'A' (but check, I could be wrong)