Physics and Astrophysics or Theoretical Physics

Kenshi

I don't know what to do. I'm doing the Leaving this year(sorry if this is in the wrong place). I am interested in doing physics and am wondering which to do. Both are in Trinity. I'm am mathematical and the heavy content of maths isn't a problem at all. If anything it is a bonus. however I'm also interest in the Astrophysics. Is this mathematical. Also what careers can come from Astrophysics?

nesf

It's a very broad question to be honest. Careers and jobs out fo physics are very dependent on how far you take your studies (to a BSc, a masters or to a PhD). Astrophysics is very interesting, the thing that was said to us in college was that it taught you an awful lot about dealing with large quantities of data and large databases and that these skills were quite useful in finding employment. Also mathematical training is something that can help you get work in my experience.

I'd keep in mind that it's you and not your degree that's hired by companies.

My advice is to think hard about what you'll enjoy doing for four years and to make your decision based on that. Although keeping a weather eye on what's useful in the workplace isn't a bad plan.

Son Goku

Kenshi wrote:

I don't know what to do. I'm doing the Leaving this year(sorry if this is in the wrong place). I am interested in doing physics and am wondering which to do. Both are in Trinity. I'm am mathematical and the heavy content of maths isn't a problem at all. If anything it is a bonus. however I'm also interest in the Astrophysics. Is this mathematical. Also what careers can come from Astrophysics?

How likely is it that you'll persue physics as a career?

elewton

I did TP in Trinity for a whle. It had a more than 50% drop out rate in first year (myself included). It's the maths course with a couple of extras. I hear UCD is better.

If you want, I can relay questions to my friends there. Or just ask me.

Personally, I'd go for the astrophysics.

David19

I'd say go for TP. There's more maths in TP. In first year you do 5/6 of the 1st year maths degree course, its quite tough. In second year you do about 4/6 of the 2nd year maths course. You do some astrophysics as part of the TP degree. If you find you don't like TP you could transfer to physics. According to the website you can transfer at any stage of your degree. I'd say the job opportunities would be better with TP as you'd have done a slightly broader course and you'd be stronger mathematically.

Of course if you have a deep interest interest in astrophysics and don't see yourself working outside of astrophysics then maybe that course is for you.

Kenshi

Son Goku wrote:

How likely is it that you'll persue physics as a career?

Strong. I'm going to do science of some sort. I've thought about mathematics aswell so thats the direction I'm headed in.

Son Goku

Kenshi wrote:

Strong. I'm going to do science of some sort. I've thought about mathematics as well so that’s the direction I'm headed in.

If you've thought about Mathematics as well then do Theoretical physics.

You can still do Astrophysics in Theoretical Physics.

In your degree you'll do a bit of Cosmology and General Relativity, so you'll be well equipped to go on to be a Theoretical Astrophysicist.

However if you just do Astrophysics you might be let down, as Astrophysics is very light on the Maths.

I was in your position as well.
Except I choose Astrophysics and found it solid boring.
I switched and I'm now doing Mathematical Physics* for my degree and it is unbelievably more interesting.

I can still do Astrophysics if I want, but I now have exposure to areas I never really considered, like Quantum Computing and Chaos.

Picking Astrophysics is too "Math-light" and specialist.
Where as Theoretical Physics is a solid grounding in a whole general field, which includes Astrophysics.

Since you say you considered Math, do Theoretical Physics.

*Mathematical Physics is pretty much Theoretical Physics.
There are a few differences but they don't show up in undergraduate level.

ApeXaviour

Son Goku wrote:

Picking Astrophysics is too "Math-light" and specialist.

Kenshi is referring to the Astrophysics option in Trinity. Are you specifically aware that in trinity, astrophysics is math-light? I'd tend to disagree. While TP may be more "math-heavy", to call the tcd physics or astrophysics degrees math-light is very misleading IMO. The same goes for specialist comment. In tcd (I cannot speak for the other colleges), less than a quarter of what the astrophysicists study could actually be classified as astrophysics. That's hardly specialist..


Kenshi,
the differences between the Physics degree and the Astrophysics degree in trinity is very little. You enter through the natural science course where you choose three subjects: Physics, Maths and one other (usually chemistry, a great help when it comes to the rakeload of solid-state physics in later years). In third year you'll specialise in either Physics or Astrophysics (or you can jump into advanced materials, chem etc. It's 3 years away, you may well have changed your mind by then, I know many who have).
Anyway going back to them being extremely similar. You can compare them here:
Third and Fourth year Physics:
http://www.tcd.ie/Physics/Courses/page321.php
http://www.tcd.ie/Physics/Courses/page322.php
Third and Fourth year AstroPhysics:
http://www.tcd.ie/Physics/Courses/page351.php
http://www.tcd.ie/Physics/Courses/page352.php

You see you still do electromag, statistical thermodynamics, electronics, thermal and electric properties of solids, QM, crystal structure etc etc.. Basically you'll be in over 80% of the physicists lectures. You're considered to be in the same class merely doing the odd different module. I don't think I could name out of my class who was doing astrophysics and who wasn't, even though I was good friends with them all.

Edit:
And with regard to jobs. Most of the physics-based jobs outside academia are lab-based. So while getting a job with TP would be of little hassle too I'd imagine, if you wanted to stay within physics, something a little more experimental might be to your taste.
However in saying that, to get a job in physics you generally need a PhD anyway and once you have a degree in anything even remotely to do with physics you can chop and change to whatever PhD you want (or can get). i.e. someone with an astrophysics degree could do a TP based PhD, as could someone with a TP degree do a materials based PhD. Sure I have a physics lecturer who's primary degree is in chemistry!!! What I'm trying to say is your final degree mark is more important than your degree course as it doesn't really matter so much once you get to postgrad anyway..

Oh and I don't mean to scare you, but don't stay away from Physics/Astrophysics because you may percieve it to be "easy" (as seems to be the impression given by some here). While I will concede TP may be a little harder, Phys/astro are no walk in the park, especially when compared to pretty much every other subject in the college bar TP. In trin, third year phys/astro has an average failure rate of 50% (highest in the college for that year afaik) and as there is no resits one either has to drop out (with an ordinary degree if you got a III) or repeat the year.

I had the same problem as you Kenshi. I think I had a similar thead to this a while back too. Since first year, all I was thinking about doing was Theoretical Physics, Physics and Astrophics, or Mathematical Science.
What did I end up choosing? General science in UCD. Here's why:

In my Science course, I'm doing every module in the TP course, in the exact same amount, plus more. There is no difference, in terms of modules. The reason I chose to do Science was because I was in your situation, and when the time came, when I was suppose to choose my CAO choices, I was still undecided. So I chose the course that allows me to have another year to decide what I want to do. Because of this whole Horizons thing in UCD, what I am basically doing is Theoretical Physics, plus Computer Science, but there is many you can choose: Astrophysics & French, Maths and Physics etc. Practically anything you want (depending on entry requirements & timetable availability). Currently with my choices I can still do degrees in Astrophysics, Applied & Computational Maths, Computer Science, Experimental Physics, Mathematics, Mathematical Physics, and Statistics, or Joint Honours in 2 of most of the above.

So, what I'm saying is if you decide what you want to do, that's fine. But if you're still even the slightest unsure, if you're still doubtful, or if you just want a basic idea of the 3 courses you mentioned, then my advice would be the Science course.

sephirosis

what aristotle said is sound advice. in fact, i did the exact same thing. i thought about TP, but now in ucd im doing EXACTLY the same classes, but i have many more options ahead than if i had done TP. dont disregard gen science just because a TP degree sounds better!

(on a side note, aristotle we really should know each other by now)

sephirosis

sephirosis wrote:

(on a side note, aristotle we really should know each other by now)

LoL I know! We may do, you never know. I know a lot of people in Programming and my maths classes. But I'm afraid to ask them, "Hey, are you a member of boards?" in case they give the "Wtf are you talking about?" look. If you've made friends with any tall guy, then it might be me, although I do know one or two other people in these classes that are as tall as me. :rolleyes:

David19

People doing general science in Trinity definitely don't do the same subjects as TPs. They may do the same physics subjects but they do none of the maths subjects. If you want to keep your options open do TP. You can transfer from TP to physics at any stage, you can't go the other way.

David19

David19 wrote:

People doing general science in Trinity definitely don't do the same subjects as TPs.

This is true. I should have made it clearer that I was talking about UCD. My bad.

base2

There arent really many physics base careers out there unlike chemistry. Unless you are interested in academic research.

Son Goku

Kenshi is referring to the Astrophysics option in Trinity. Are you specifically aware that in trinity, astrophysics is math-light? I'd tend to disagree. While TP may be more "math-heavy", to call the tcd physics or astrophysics degrees math-light is very misleading IMO. The same goes for specialist comment. In tcd (I cannot speak for the other colleges), less than a quarter of what the astrophysicists study could actually be classified as astrophysics. That's hardly specialist..

I'm saying it will probably be Math-light from the point of view of somebody who has considered Math.
And as for specialist, even if you do 80% of the same material, I've seen people turned away from Theoretical Astrophysics masters because they did Astrophysics.
Basically because they were considered not to have the required Mathematical background.

I'm arguing from the point of view of somebody with a heavy enough mathematical slant that they considered Mathematics.

Oh and I don't mean to scare you, but don't stay away from Physics/Astrophysics because you may percieve it to be "easy"

It's not easy, but it mightn't be satisfying to somebody who enjoys Math.

As such my advice would be to do Theoretical Physics, because it leaves your options open the widest if you want to do Physics as a career and really enjoy Maths.