Session Targets?

murfie

I have decided to give up on the STT and MTT (no totally), and play low level cash games at the start, hopefully working my way up. But whats good target to have for a table you sit down to? Double you money? I guess it depend on your original buy in. But what targets should set myself?

Ste05

You'll get lots of replies saying to "keep playing if the going is good" and the likes, but I pretty much started like this, what I like to do is, take about 20 minutes, get poker tracker scouting about 5 tables and logging the hands, and keep looking at the tables as you wait, pick one that seems to have a couple of fish with medium stacks, enough to take to make it worth while, go in with the maximum, get GT+ or PokerAce (which ever you prefer) fired up and play away, set a rough time limit for yourself, and a vague amount that you'll be happy taking away, I normally say 1.5 buy-ins but will leave with less if I think the table has become saturated, and stay longer if the going is really looking great,

What I like to do is, instead of "shearing" these fish (so they'll keep playing), I like to gut them, there are so many at the low levels they won't remember you next time even if you're lucky enough to see them again...

You need to pay attention to who are the solid players at the tables, you'll get to know them fairly quickly, and they'll get to know you quickly also and I find they will tend to stay away from you and I return the favour, obviously I won't fear them, but I'll be more wary of their moves,

But the major thing to do is to lock down a profit you're happy with, leave the table with a nice profit and start at a new table... One thing I like to do though is, if the first hand I play I lose it, I'll leave the table, you need to have an aura of a winning player so they'll be more likely to fold when you want them too...

padraig_f

I'm not sure it's a great idea to have a specific session target. If you're not getting the cards, breaking even can be a good result for a session and if you have some target in your head it may cause you to overplay hands trying to reach it. Hourly rate or your rate per 100 hands is the best thing to look at but it should be looked at over a much longer term than a single session.

I've been reading John Feeney's 'Inside the poker mind' recently and he has a good section on tilt and it's origins. One of the major ones he lists is people's preoccupation with winning. He says that while winning money is obviously the long term goal, if you're too preoccupied with it in the short term (such as over a single session) it can have quite negative effects on your play.

As for what's a good hourly rate at the various levels, I'm not too well up on this, maybe someone else can help you out there.

Hectorjelly

Targets are silly and will cost a winning player money. If the game is good and you are playing well then stay, otherwise leave.

Ste05

I think (at the lower levels anyway), if you're sitting there with a monster stack (2-4 times the buy in) the fish begin to become wary of you and avoid you after a while, and so when you reach a certain point (saturation - I call it - roughly 4 buy-in's and above) you have to leave the table because you're actually losing customers and therefore profit due to your stack...... that's what I've found anyway,

At the lower levels, the tables are chopping and changing so much, the only thing that remains constant for a long period are the same few decent players. Who aren't giving you their money, the "donators" are constantly coming and going, changing every 10 hands or so at times...

At the higher levels I absolutely agree with you, but down at the 25NL tables and the like, (as this question refers to and my answer relates), I don't think this really applies and in fact can cost you money to have a monster stack,

Just my opinion and what I've found recently after dropping back down a couple of levels to re-build my BR...

I wouldn't mind hearing thoughts on this theory am I losing money by doing this....

Ste05

Any thoughts on this???? obviously it doesn't happen too often where you get up to 4x the buy in, but this last week I've been on a huge up swing, not sure if it's the drop down in levels or variance but this has happened a few times lately, so any thoughts would be appreciated.....

Marq

Your target is to consistently make the correct decision, not to make a certain amount of money. If the correct decision is to stay in a game that is what you do. And vice versa. If you always stay in a game until you make x amount of money as Hector says you are costing yourself money.

this is for two reasons: 1) when you make that amount and stop and cost yourself the money you would have made had you stayed. when you have a large stack at a table you have been beating the game conditions are usually very good, and you tend to beat the game easier.

2)you cost yourself money chasing to your target, instead of getting out when you realise that game conditions are bad.

threebeards

Ste05 wrote:

get poker tracker scouting about 5 tables and logging the hands.....

Is poker tracker (or similar) essential for playing cash games in your or others opinion? I've never used it but I've seen it mentioned more than once here.

I'm not trying to hijack your thread Murfie

Ste05

threebeards wrote:

Is poker tracker (or similar) essential for playing cash games in your or others opinion? I've never used it but I've seen it mentioned more than once here.

I'm not trying to hijack your thread Murfie

Absolutely IMO, send me a PM and I'll show you a way to get it for free, nothing dodgy just a good bonus site....

EDIT:
A few people have asked for this, there's absolutely no prob if any one else wants to send me a PM...

murfie

Thanks guys this is good stuff, i must try out the tracker software so. Altough i am nothing compared to you guys but i have to start somewhere i guess!!

No problem threebeards, we are all on the same learning curve, any questions ansewered will help me as much as you.

So basicly if the goings good stick at the table, but if it turns get out fast!!

TacT

lately I've gotten into the habit of doubling up or near doubling up then leaving the table which is working out nicely. Quick example is when playing .50/1 on PPP -- sitting there waiting for my hand and get 88 utg. I limp in and get a raiser for $9 who says, "I have rockets." Two other guys call telling me they also possibly have rockets or small pair looking for a set. I call for odds, hit my set and take down a $280 pot which was rather nice. Up and leave, it's new table time! What more are you going to do? Start hoping you hit $500 before you leave? Nonsense, make your killing and move on I say.

The amount of times staying at a table with a fat stack has cost me money --say for example I was the guy witih rockets above -- I think this works out best, double up and get the hell out of there! You win more in the long term.

Also, the amount of times I've seen guys build up over $200 stacks at those stakes then get it all-in against the other big stack at the table only to get cleaned out is ridiculous -- two pairs vs straights, rockets vs sets -- it's just not worth it. I say you come to do what you came to do, make money then move on, no sense risking all that hard work, is there?

Hectorjelly

You dont win more in the long term by leaving, however bad players will lose less in the long run (and the shortterm) if they leave once they double up.

TacT

Of course you do, because you do not put what you have earnt in jeopardy and therefore save yourself a fortune from any suckout that may and will occur at some stage at any game.

More like sensible players who don't want to deal with massive swings I'd be more inclined to say.

Marq

silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly silly

Tackle

TacT wrote:

Of course you do, because you do not put what you have earnt in jeopardy and therefore save yourself a fortune from any suckout that may and will occur at some stage at any game.

More like sensible players who don't want to deal with massive swings I'd be more inclined to say.

It's alot easier to go from $200 to $300 than to go from $100 to $200. Leaving the table when you've doubled up is a huge mistake imo. And if you do end up all in against another big stack on the turn with the top pair vs. a flush draw, big thankful that he's got that big stack. Unless you have bankroll problems you shouldn't be leaving the table because you're worried about loosing it all.
I leave the table after a certain amount of time, not money, depending on certain conditions. I do have a target of $150 for the time played though, but it doesn't directly influence when I'll leave.