Dessie Farrell and Tommy Lyons

blackbelt

I read in the Evening Herald how Tommy Lyons encouraged the Dublin team to go out drinking 5 or 6 days before an important match.

If this is true,what kind of manager is Lyons?He never brought too much success to the teams he managed.

It was stated that a few years ago the Dublin team were going to privately meet up in the Burlington to discuss getting rid of him back then only for 5 or 6 players to chicken out at the last moment.

I never thought much of Lyons anyway.He had a bias towards players from kilmacud crokes and na fianna.and if this encouraging drink game is in fact true then its no surprise Dublin were all over the place in previous years.Its believed that he proposed drinking as for some sort of reverse psychology test.Some players did drink and some didn't.And according to Farrell,those who still drank were not dropped from the team.

The question i want to pose to members on this board is this.Do you believe Dessie Farrell or do you think its hyped up and blown out of proportion and does anybody think Lyons was a good manager?

i was always under the impression he was from Offaly but the herald says he is from mayo.

Culchie

Lyons was born in Mayo, but moved to Dublin as a kid.

I've always liked Dessie Farrell, and would not have had much time for Lyon's type of management and showmanship.

However, I don't think this stuff should be thrown out into the public domain. People's families are involved, and I wish Dessie hadn't chose to go public on his personal matters, and also that of the inner workings of the Dublin team. What happens in a dressing room/training pitch should stay there.

I can't see any 'upside' in any of this for anyone, except sell more copies of The Evening Herald.

Waylander

Well his book sales will shoot up so he will benefit in that. Personally, depending on how much they drank I would not have an issue with players drinking 6 days before a match, there is loads of time to recover there.

coolhandluke

Lyons was a serious tool.I remember after the westmeath championship game posting on the hill16 website when they had a discussion board that it,was if lyons had purposely gone out to lose that game.It was never posted obviously,but if this was the case i now think he was even more usless that i thought originally.

Lemlin

Originally posted by blackbelt
I read in the Evening Herald....

Once you said The Herald, I stopped reading the rest. The Herald has to be the worst paper going for printing pure crap. They attempt to sell papers with nothing more than made-up bull****.

Sure only a month ago there was uproar when they reported that Roy Keane and Brian Kerr had been bickering when they hadn't at all.

I also heard a story that two lads from p45.net made up a rumour, posted it round the net and it made the front page of The Herald.

Originally posted by Waylander
Well his book sales will shoot up so he will benefit in that. Personally, depending on how much they drank I would not have an issue with players drinking 6 days before a match, there is loads of time to recover there.

Have you ever played football? Even amateur teams would not drink before a game. When five Cavan players were caught drinking the weekend before a game this year, they were sent to Tyrone for a gruelling training camp and some of them were kicked off the panel. Several supporters did not go to the Antrim replayed game in protest.

Its well known that drinking undoes all the good work of training and affects player's fitness. If players went for a training session the day after drinking, the session would just be a waste as they would be doing nothing more than sweating the drink out of their system.

They may only be amateurs but I think alot of supporters will be angry with the Dublin team if this turns out to be true. I wouldn't like the thought of paying to watch players who weren't giving their all.

Waylander

Dont presume to lecture me Lemlin. Yes I have played and still play football. As I said DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH they drink I do not have a problem with players having a drink 6 days before a match. This is my opinion and I do not need to justify it to the likes of you. I would have a problem if they were going out skulling 20 pints, but if they were going out and having 3 or 4 pints I would have no problem. Who are you to tell an amateur sportsman he is not entitled to have the odd pint?

Lemlin

Dont presume to lecture me Lemlin. Yes I have played and still play football. As I said DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH they drink I do not have a problem with players having a drink 6 days before a match. This is my opinion and I do not need to justify it to the likes of you. I would have a problem if they were going out skulling 20 pints, but if they were going out and having 3 or 4 pints I would have no problem. Who are you to tell an amateur sportsman he is not entitled to have the odd pint?

Yes, I would tell an amateur sportsman that they can't go out and have even 3-4 pints before a game. I wouldn't have 3-4 pints even two weekends before a game, especially an important one. That's why teams have drink bans.

I wouldn't mind a pint perhaps after the game to unwind, but a week before an important match? That's an entirely different story. Tyrone and Armagh have raised the game to a whole new level, players need to be in peak physical condition now.

Waylander

Well if I was that amateur sportsman I would have a few choice words for you. 3-4 pints one week before a game will do no harm come the game.

Lemlin

3-4 pints one week before a game will do no harm come the game.

That my be your opinion but sports science says different. Its also all about having the right attitude in the run up to a game.

kaimera

/me peeks head in door to scope out teh ruckus.

blackbelt

I think its ok for a player to have 1-2 pints ONLY 5/6 days away from a match and no more.

I feel its unnecessary and stupid for a manager to encourage it though.You know yourself.one pint leads to three and three pints leads to six.It should definitely not be encouraged by a manager.If i got caught drinking the night before training or 3-4 days before a match,It would be frowned upon.We are doing intense winter training and have been lectured about drinking,when we drink,our diet etc.

These days I analyse everything before I eat it.Things like sugar content,fat,carbohydrates,gluten,starch content.

Its disgraceful for a manager like Lyons to encourage it,reverse psychology or not.

walshb

I guess it would definitely explain the huge amount of Wides Dublin kicks in every match.........

walshb

Ad for those who think 3-4 pints is OK, days before a match. They are obviously not true sports peoPle and probably always finish runner up. Drink and competitive sport just don't mix. Even darts players and snooker players do not drink now as every little edge is needed to be successfull.....You just have to look at Irelands woeful performance against France a few weeks ago to realise this...wasn't Robbie Keane and a few more out until the early hrs drinking, with the most important match in Ireland;s recent history only days away...and Kerr didn't see the problem....what a SHAM

Lemlin

Ad for those who think 3-4 pints is OK, days before a match. They are obviously not true sports peoPle and probably always finish runner up. Drink and competitive sport just don't mix.

Couldn't agree more. Even the poorest of junior teams, operate with drink bans the week before a Championship game.

mchurl

just to say i played gaa at a reasonable level and we were told by our dieticians and sports science people that it will effect your performance if you drink even three to four weeks before a game. :cool:

hawker

If i was a manager of a football/hurling team, I would impose a two week drinking ban prior to all championship games. To be fair I think most players would have no problem with that anyway.

blackbelt wrote:

If this is true,what kind of manager is Lyons?He never brought too much success to the teams he managed.

For the record I think Lyons managed Offaly to win Leinster in 1997. I also think he was the manager of Kilmacud Crokes who won the 1995 (?) All Ireland Club title.

Personally I think he's an ignorant man and never did any good for Dublin football.

The Rooster

Lyons was born in Mayo but I believe spent most of his life in Dublin.

He managed Kilmacud Crokes to win the All Ireland club title in 1995 - obviously an impressive achievement, maybe moreso given that not one of that team was deemed good enough by Pat O'Neill to warrant a strating place in Dublin's run to winning the All Ireland that year.

Lyons took over Offaly when they were a Division 4 side. He won a Leinster, and I think a National League title with them (they certainly got to the final). Apparently he was one of the first to bring in special diets for players. He was the first to put a team on the famous (or it was then) Neutron Diet.

While he may have had a bias towards Kilmacud players, he certainly had not bias towards Na Fianna players. It was the opposite if anything, and part of the reason why Dessie didnt like him. Rightly or wrongly it was perceived that he had a bias against Northside players.

He obivously started very well as Dublin manager, bringing the team to an All Ireland semi-final, beaten by the ultimate winners by the width of a post. After that I felt he became obsessed with his own media profile. In my mind he was more interested in his own glory rather than Dublin's. He took virtually no part in taking the Dublin U21s to All Ireland finals in 2002 and 2003, yet took over both teams completely for the final and made out that it was he who should get the credit. Brian Talty walked out in protest over 2002, and this probably cost Dublin the victory, as Lyons not knowing the players hadnt a clue what changes to make when things started to go wrong. In 03 it was Jim Gavin and Declan Darcy who looked after the team, and it is they rather than Lyons who should get the credit for the victory.

I'd never read the Herald and snippets of books are usually misleading. I'd believe what Dessie said, but I dont think I'll really know what that was until I buy and read the book.

Even darts players and snooker players do not drink now as every little edge is needed to be successfull.

I happen to be quite the fountain of knowledge when it comes to darts :rolleyes:
I often move in those circles.
To say darts players don't drink anymore is wrong. They just dont drink on TV. Obviously I cant give an exact figure, but I'm certain the majority (i.e. over 50%) of professional players have a drink before playing competition. The common consensus is that 3 to 4 pints is the optimum amout of drink to take before a game. Enough to relax you and calm your nerves, but not enough to make you blurry-eyed or lose count!
(I'm not saying this has any relevance to GAA men drinking!)

Culchie

The Rooster wrote:

I happen to be quite the fountain of knowledge when it comes to darts :rolleyes:
I often move in those circles.

Tell us more, used to move in those circles myself, including being on the winning team in the Dublin league (Farrells of New Street) ... before I got married (sigh) ... when herself felt I was 'training' too hard

I have an intimate knowledge of the Dublin pub scene, not necessarily some of the most luxurious hostelries around town !

walshb

The Rooster wrote:

Lyons was born in Mayo but I believe spent most of his life in Dublin.


I happen to be quite the fountain of knowledge when it comes to darts :rolleyes:
I often move in those circles.
To say darts players don't drink anymore is wrong. They just dont drink on TV. Obviously I cant give an exact figure, but I'm certain the majority (i.e. over 50%) of professional players have a drink before playing competition. The common consensus is that 3 to 4 pints is the optimum amout of drink to take before a game. Enough to relax you and calm your nerves, but not enough to make you blurry-eyed or lose count!
(I'm not saying this has any relevance to GAA men drinking!)

Maybe they do drink a bit, but due to the money now involved in sports like snooker and darts, the players cannot afford to drink as they need every little bit of an advantage and a guy who has 4-5 pints in him just before a frame of snooker or game of darts isn't giving himself any advantage over his opponent who has zero alcohol in the system

Waylander

Darts and snooker players stopped drinking during tournaments for the same reason they stopped smoking during tournaments, they were told to for the image of the "sports". These were not fitness or dietry requirements to improve their game.

Lemlin

I'd imagine its a bit harder to play darts with ten pints in ya