When to stop?

Mark J

how do you know when to stop.

up $1200 (net) on VC recently and was on the "i`m unstoppable trip" and got caught in a big hand and had to win back my loss but ended up loosing it all.

deposited €70 in irisheyespoker last night (sh*tty site, don`t like it) up to €800 in about 3 hours and exact same thing....took a €250 hit
(or there abouts)
and tried to win it back but lost the lot.
i just can`t give it up.

my reasoning behind it is, the other week i was up to approx. $1000 on VC a few weeks ago, told the GF,
she said "stop while your ahead" but i didn`t....
and ended up cashing out €3000 (give or take a few quid!)

if your up a few quid, should you just stop? or if you think you can build on it continue?
any advice? i am gutted, TBH!

Lafortezza

You're unhappy about being up money?

Washout

the question is do you keep your still of play exactly the same? or do you win money playing tight and once your down do you turn to loose play?

and when you were up 800 does that mean you went down to 550? or went down to 0 and deposited more money.

You have to know when to walk out of a cash game once your up. If you are up like that and lose a big hand but are still upthen why not stake a % of your winnings into a couple of MTTS. that way your still playing but not losing the kind of money you do so quickly in cash games.

Culchie

Bankroll Management is your best friend in Poker.

NickyOD

Not sure what you mean by "stop". What I suspect you mean is you've been risking a large amount of your bankroll in order to take a big score. Well done, but yes STOP!

Now that you've got yourself a decent bankroll start using proper bankroll management and play with its limitations. The last thing you want to have to do now that you're on a roll is be forced to re-deposit when you start to run bad.

Tackle

That's serious cash, what stakes are you playing at Mark?

I stop after 6-8 hours, depending on how I'm going. If I'm hovering around my daily target of $150 after 6 hours I'll stop. If I'm doing better I'll keep playing but give myself a loss limit of $50. If things aren't going so well I'll stop after 6 hours.

Washout

Tackle wrote:

That's serious cash, what stakes are you playing at Mark?

I stop after 6-8 hours, depending on how I'm going. If I'm hovering around my daily target of $150 after 6 hours I'll stop. If I'm doing better I'll keep playing but give myself a loss limit of $50. If things aren't going so well I'll stop after 6 hours.

btw Tackle sorry for going off topic I was meant to ask you. Hows the whole playing pro(or semi pro) thing going for you.

willis

Mark u said u deposited €70 in irisheyespokier and got it up to €800 in 3hrs....wat level did u play ay?

Tackle

Washout wrote:

btw Tackle sorry for going off topic I was meant to ask you. Hows the whole playing pro(or semi pro) thing going for you.

It's going very well. Moved up to .50/1 last week and finished up $750. I'm on course for $1000 this week. I was bit lazy at .25/.50, making enough to get by but I'm treating it like a real job now. Getting a bit of stick off the gf about not having a 'real' job but I've spelt it out to her, that is just not going to happen.

Washout

Tackle wrote:

It's going very well. Moved up to .50/1 last week and finished up $750. I'm on course for $1000 this week. I was bit lazy at .25/.50, making enough to get by but I'm treating it like a real job now. Getting a bit of stick off the gf about not having a 'real' job but I've spelt it out to her, that is just not going to happen.

good man...i might join you in the ranks soon but cant give up the day job just yet

sorry for going off topic guys

Iago

Bankroll Management is the key to success, everybody has different amounts that they are comfortable with and that dictates how much they spend in a month.

I predominantly play STT's (although I've started to 2 table .50/1 at full tilt over the last week) and I keep $600 in the account for STT's (playing at the $25 and $30 levels) I don't top that up during the month. If I lose it then its gone until next month,
anything I win over that I withdraw at the end of the month to my account leaving the $600 behind.

I've changed this slightly for Full Tilt as I'm chasing the deposit bonus so as I said I'm 2 tabling the .50/1 game and playing some STT's while I'm online. I deposited $600 and its up to $935 after the weekend which isn't too bad but the key is that if I lose that money I don't top up this month. I won't be withdrawing until I clear the bonus conditions either as $600 is far too little to consistently play at .50/1 levels.

That's my management technique anyway, it's not big money but then it's only a hobby rather than a living for me.

[Jackass]

To maintain your winning playing style, after a few bad beats, or after a few good wins (we dont want you getting cocku ) take a break. Get some food, a drink or a smoke whatever, but at least 10 minutes. So you resume play with a fresh mind, and you can maintain your patience and concentration. (and emotions are calmer, so better judgment and descions)

Also give yourself a max chip. mark, such as 400. Whenever you reach this, bank 200 and resume with 200. Do this everytime you reach the 400 mark. keep playing untill you go bust, but never top it up.

If you manage to reach it 10 times before you go bust, you've just banked 2000. Enjoy your holidays.

padraig_f

Here are some good articles on the subject:
http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/proLessons.php?lesson=8
http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/?a_id=13360&m_id=67

Mark J

lafortezza wrote:

You're unhappy about being up money?

no 3K is well long gone, i wasn`t on about that.
that was a reference point to, if i stopped when my GF asked me to stop at 1K i wouldn`t have gone on to win the 3K!? dya get me now?
if i stopped, i would have still made an excellent profit from €100 deposit.

i was on about the other scenarios.

lots of good replies from others though, thanks.

Doc Farrell

glad to see everybody's winning.
that must be where all my money's going.....

when to stop?
set urself realizable targets and loss limits. that is up to you to decide.

considering the limits i play at if i win a fiver an hour i'm doing very well.
pays for the mtts that i always lose in....

shoutman

sorry if this is slightly off topic
I only play for fun, the odd 5 dollar mtt and 5 dollar no limit tourneys on pokerstars, whenever im running low on funds i always play ten dollar headsup, 8 times out of ten id be winning them, would you semi pro/pro never try playing these for a bit? i must say id find it awful tedious playing limit hold em for 7 hours straight or would you mix up the games you play.

regards

RasTa

Football is the way to go. 138 up for the first 2 months of the season.... i can feed my family now!
*note sarcasm*
I normally allways win when i bet on footy but the bigest bet i have made this season has being 14.42. Its the same with poker, only a hobby and credit to have on the cc when i buy a few dvd's every month.
I think you should stop when you loose 1200 in one sitting and you consider poker "part time" sounds like your addicited. If its your full time money maker then play away!!

Mark J

yea, 1200 in one sitting for an initial €100 deposit.

it is a hobbie/addiction!

Mark J

willis wrote:

Mark u said u deposited €70 in irisheyespokier and got it up to €800 in 3hrs....wat level did u play ay?

start at 1/2, went to 270.
then 3/6 up to 800.
then...well......lost it!

Mark J

Washout wrote:

the question is do you keep your still of play exactly the same? or do you win money playing tight and once your down do you turn to loose play?

got it in one. players are humans. get em thinking. if you play correctly, no-one should be able to put you on anything.

as losing the 800, as i said i took a hit, tried to take it back.
the losing hand was a badbeat,
(sorry, forgot can`t mention them 2 words here!)
em....the other fella went all in looking for one card and hit 1 out of 2 cards out of 47.

anyway, i should cash out half my winnings as i go along and play with the rest as i`ll still be up? seems logical but i`m a greedy c*nt!
when i`m on a roll i do make a lot of money but sometimes i do lose a lot of my winnings, i say winnings cos my initial deposit has never exceeded€175.

Mark J

sorry misread your post/quote.

play tight to build my stack and loosen up with the more money i have,
gives me more options and players automatically have me pigeon-holed as tight.

Mark J

DubGuy wrote:

To maintain your winning playing style, after a few bad beats, or after a few good wins (we dont want you getting cocku ) take a break. Get some food, a drink or a smoke whatever, but at least 10 minutes. So you resume play with a fresh mind, and you can maintain your patience and concentration. (and emotions are calmer, so better judgment and descions)

Also give yourself a max chip. mark, such as 400. Whenever you reach this, bank 200 and resume with 200. Do this everytime you reach the 400 mark. keep playing untill you go bust, but never top it up.

If you manage to reach it 10 times before you go bust, you've just banked 2000. Enjoy your holidays.

good advice. thanks.

but my thinking is with the more money on the table the more i can win in that sitting - greedines i suppose.

but i`ll give your theory a try and i`ll report back.

thanks for a logical response.

Mark J

Tackle wrote:

That's serious cash, what stakes are you playing at Mark?

start at 1/2 build it to over 200 then move to 3/6.(or higher depending on what i`ve won!)

Mark J

shoutman wrote:

would you semi pro/pro never try playing these for a bit?
i must say id find it awful tedious playing limit hold em for 7 hours straight or would you mix up the games you play.

regards

never play limit, as you said - awfully tedious. NL all the way.

not a pro or semi. a hobbiest with an addictive personality, i`d put it.

just sitting at home at my screen same as another million people!

bohsman

Mark J wrote:

start at 1/2, went to 270.
then 3/6 up to 800.
then...well......lost it!

Thats crazy, you shouldnt play 1/2 till you have at least 2k 3/6...6k

If youre playing for fun stick to small games like .25/.50 or whatever till you build up a proper br

Mark J

bohsman wrote:

Thats crazy, you shouldnt play 1/2 till you have at least 2k 3/6...6k

If youre playing for fun stick to small games like .25/.50 or whatever till you build up a proper br

are you for real? just checked my back pocket and my 6K is in my other jeans.

look, i know all the "how many BBs you "should" have before entering a table but i seem for the majority of the time (so far) not to be doing too bad.

tx n e way.

christ, if i`d €6,000 i`d go to the WPT/WSOP!!!

Doc Farrell

chief, thats good advice and if ur as serious as some of the players here u will read what they have to say about money management.

u may well succeed without money management advice but considering how much info is out there, there is nothing to lose from taking it on board.

gl, d.

btw, can i borrow the 6 gs in ur back pocket!

Ste05

Basically the long below in a nut shell

Q. When to stop???
A. Don't stop, but take a profit out of your winnings, bring it up a set figure, take out another (lesser) set figure, keep building your BR but also taking out a profit, move up as your BR and skill level allows and have fun.....

Mark J wrote:

as losing the 800, as i said i took a hit, tried to take it back.
the losing hand was a badbeat,
(sorry, forgot can`t mention them 2 words here!)
em....the other fella went all in looking for one card and hit 1 out of 2 cards out of 47.

This is the exact reason you need Bankroll management, :cool:
These beats happen every day, but you don't want it to empty out your account. You are now left with the horrible feeling that you have, why didn't I stop?? :mad: I can't believe all that money is gone!! :mad: , etc. etc. etc. :mad: :mad:

Even if you don't want to exercise proper bankroll management, at the very least you should not play for your whole bankroll. Even if you must, at least leave half your roll off the table and so when the next BB (or mistake) happens you won't be left with quite the same feeling.
Although I get the impression you'd just take the other half and immediately try and win it back, (a sure fire way to lose) naaaaaa

Mark J wrote:

start at 1/2 build it to over 200 then move to 3/6.(or higher depending on what i`ve won!)

This is exactly the wrong thing to do,
Firstly, 200 should be your starting point at the 1/2 level, not your goal!!!
And take Bohsman's advice regards to the money you need to play at these levels. It's spot on and the minimum normally recommended as a BR, not the maximum.

If you get very very lucky, (as you seem to have above) and move up in levels, unless you continue to get lucky ..... all you are is shark bait for the guys at these tables, they grind out small edges against the regulars at the level and when someone like you comes along, that has just had a good win, or with alot of money to burn, they just take them apart. It's what makes poker profitable for these guys. Many regular 1/2 players would get ripped apart by 3/6 players.

If the smaller levels don't excite you anymore, try some decent sized STT's or MTT's.
But having said all that, this has obviously has worked for you in the past with this $3k cashout and all, so?????

Happy Camper

The saying "quit while you're ahead" sounds like good advice, but it ain't.

First of all, before you ask yourself, "when should I stop?", you should ask yourself, "am I a winning player?"

If you're a winning player, then you shouldn't quit, just because you're ahead. If you're ahead, then more than likely, conditions are favourable, i.e. you're playing well or at a very good table. You should play on, since you're likely to be getting the best of it.

Well, that still doesn't answer the question, when should you stop? Setting a cash limit is dangerous. Cash limits lead you to play less when you have the best of it, but more when you don't.

But, if you're a winning player, you get paid by the hour. With this in mind, setting a time limit becomes the obvious answer. Thus, you quit after a 4 hour session (say), regardless of whether you're up or down (although it can't hurt to put in a little extra over time, if there's a big sucker at the table ).

If you're not a winning player, and you ask, when should I stop? Well, that all depends on how much you can afford to lose :cool:

argolis

It's a hobby for me at the moment, but I'd have to agree with Happy Camper and similar posts. The first time I read this sort of advice it was written by Mike Caro. Basically the theory is that if you're at the sort of table where you're consistently winning why stop? That's exactly the situation you're always looking for in the first place. The dominant image I'm sure also helps.

The reverse is harder to gauge - when to quit when you're losing, i.e. are you on tilt or making good calls but losing all the same, etc. At a certain point or limit you have to be able to take a break from it to clear your head and be sure you're not tilting, etc. Haven't managed to do this on occasion but after reading that advice I'm getting better and I think it shows a little in my own playing as I'm more regularly coming out with net gains from cash games and limiting losses by thinking about how I'm playing.

My 1+1c

Also, great tips on BR from everyone else! cheers

Culchie

I've posted these before, but there's alot of new posters here since.... so have read of these two very good threads.

You'll enjoy looking at the pictures if nothing else.


http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9214


http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4971

Mark J

cashing out half anything i win seems the most logical step, i must say.

suppose it was down to pure greed! and my sheer invincibility!

can`t wait to be bait for more sharks that call an all-in on a 2 outer!!!

might go get some blood and pour it out all over the irish sea.

i know the references to "standard" BRs to whatever stakes
but I am consistently up money weekly for the last 4 months, lucky bastard that I am!
i`ve never read a sklansky poker book or super systems, so i think i`ve an edge on all the players who are playing the same from reading the same books.


it`s lucky that cards and psychological ploys/trickery don`t come into poker and that it seems to be all luck cos i`d be f*cked otherwise!!!
my rabbits foot is doing wonders for me!

advice taken on board as to cashing out half my winnings and then playing on in future, seems most logical step and hopefully i won`t get that feeling i got in my gut!(the one you described earlier)

thanks for the replies.

Mark J

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9214

read it before, very good post.

Poker is a horrible short term game, you can be ontop of the world one day and drowning in the depths of the river valley the next. It's a game of swings. You WILL lose at some point, it's a statistical certainty. It is the undefinable "luck" that people are so quick to blame.

Hectorjelly

It sounds like you are running well, unfortunately it wont last forever!. Id give you some advice but it might involve reading a book.