hi john brawn.

dlofnep

JohnBrawn wrote:

I look forward to taking part in the debates.

Well, you asked for it. I'll start things off. I'm sure alot of the other guys here would like to ask you come questions. I'd appreciate it if you were honest and to the point with your responses

John, alot of your courses seem to be very highly priced. I was wondering why you charge so much for your courses and do you personally believe people are getting their bang for their buck by going to one of your seminars?

memphis

I'm still waiting on John to answer this exact question which I put to him, at least twice! For some reason he appears to be avoiding the question.

WHY?????

RedRaven

memphis wrote:

I'm still waiting on John to answer this exact question which I put to him, at least twice! For some reason he appears to be avoiding the question.

WHY?????

I think Mr. Brawn (by the looks of his web site) is targeting the corporate sectors, this maybe the reason for the high price of his seminars.

I think paying a high price for courses of this nature is quite common among bored company executives who have nothing else to do with their money and it doesnt matter if its any good or if they dont learn anything from it, I suppose it makes for great conversation with the chaps down at the polo club, I say old boy do keep the Moet flowing, what what!!!:)

Millionaire

and them ol polo ponies do not come cheap either, shall we take the Lear Jet or just go in the bell ranger today darling?

Damo W

Hi Guys,

Maybe I'm missing the point but surely it doesn't matter what he's charging for his seminars, he can charge what he likes, either pay it to attend or go somewhere cheaper (or more expensive).

Professional instructors must make a living.

I couldn't afford to attend that seminar but some can, no problem.

By the way I'm not affiliated with John in any way but have met the man and attended a seminar of his many years ago through a different host/company.

There are more and more of these weekend and week day seminars (various instructors) in Ireland priced accordingly, whats the problem with them.

Cheers
Damien

dlofnep

I think it matters alot Damien. I don't think it's fair that someone should pay a high price for something if it's not worth it. I believe the public have a right to know what they are getting into. There is no harm in asking John why he thinks his course is worth it's face value. It's a perfectly simple question IMO and if he can't answer it then theres a problem.

Millionaire

thats the way I feel too Damo.

despite the mill nickname I could nto afford 1700 for a weekend course, and would not pay that if I could.

but there is plenty of people out there who can afford big fees.

Thats the thing, some people seem to get annoyed at professional teachers in MA, making a living. as I said before lok at the price of Personal training, as far as I am aware anywhere form 40 euro to 80 a hour or more sometimes.

I know one lady who has pays 50 euro twice a week for a personal trainer, and he more or less just keeps her motivated to keep moving on the thread mill and some light weights. no problem, shes very happy to pay, and enjoys it.

dlofnep

Millionaire wrote:

despite the mill nickname I could nto afford 1700 for a weekend course, and would not pay that if I could.

but there is plenty of people out there who can afford big fees.

Just because you may have alot of money, doesn't mean you should spend it unwisely.

Millionaire wrote:

Thats the thing, some people seem to get annoyed at professional teachers in MA, making a living. as I said before lok at the price of Personal training, as far as I am aware anywhere form 40 euro to 80 a hour or more sometimes.

Nobody is getting annoyed - We are curious as to why John feels his course is worth what he charges.

Roper

Well, if John wants to respond I'm sure he will, but I wouldn't feel compelled to if I were in his shoes. As it's a non-vital service he's providing in a non-regulated industry, he really doesn't have to answer to anyone. Least of all internet types.

That said, as we're all MAists here, it's not particularly like we're his customers, so I would also like to hear John's thoughts on his pricing, just for pig iron.

By the way, there are those who believe that MA should be free, that it is the teachers responsibility to pass it on to a new generation of students. There are also those who believe that classes should cover expense and no more. So bear in mind that to some people YOU could be the rip-off merchant!

Someone made an Eddie Hobbs type comment on the other thread. Basically the thrust was that John was providing a rip-off. Firstly, nobody here knows what John does, except Vasch Ro, who I hope will give us his thoughts. How can it be a rip off if you don't know what the product is? Elighten us John? Secondly, the competition is doing it cheaper than John, so that means he's not ripping off, he's just providing an expensive alternative.

Damo W

dlofnep wrote:

I think it matters alot Damien. I don't think it's fair that someone should pay a high price for something if it's not worth it. I believe the public have a right to know what they are getting into. There is no harm in asking John why he thinks his course is worth it's face value. It's a perfectly simple question IMO and if he can't answer it then theres a problem.

dlofnep, cheers and thanks for the reply, I don't believe we are the people who should decide if something is worth it or not, we each have our own set of values forged through our own experiences, and can not superimpose these on anyone else.

I don't think 'the public' are going to listen to you or me (possibly you but certainly not me ) and I don't think that we will influence anyone with 1700 disposable to attend or not attend this seminar.

dlofnep wrote:

There is no harm in asking John why he thinks his course is worth it's face value. It's a perfectly simple question IMO and if he can't answer it then theres a problem.

No harm in the world, and I will eagerly await his answer too, if he says 'because I've spent 20 years searching for knowledge travelling abroad and now its my time to recoup the money I've spent gathering this info.' would everyone be happy with that..???

Well he's getting some PR out of us anyway, I wonder if (probably) increases in visits to his site could be assigned to discussions like this...hmmmm

On a different note and probably a more important discussion, does anyone else feel we all as instructors undercharge for out time and years of effort in attaining our skills......

dlofnep

Damo W wrote:

dlofnep, cheers and thanks for the reply,

Np Damo

Damo W wrote:

I don't believe we are the people who should decide if something is worth it or not, we each have our own set of values forged through our own experiences, and can not superimpose these on anyone else.

Oh, I'm not deciding on what's worth what.. I'm asking John on why he feels what he teaches is worth it's cost. We are all entitled to our own opinions on the matter but I won't voice mine. I don't think I even need to as I'm sure it's shared with many others.

Damo W wrote:

I don't think 'the public' are going to listen to you or me (possibly you but certainly not me ) and I don't think that we will influence anyone with 1700 disposable to attend or not attend this seminar.

Of course they are not going to. This is a friendly question to John for our own benefit, nobody else.

Damo W wrote:

No harm in the world, and I will eagerly await his answer too, if he says 'because I've spent 20 years searching for knowledge travelling abroad and now its my time to recoup the money I've spent gathering this info.' would everyone be happy with that..???

It's not about being happy tbh, it's about getting an honest answer. Someone can train for 20 years but it doesn't neccessarily reflect what they have to offer. Let's say I study some inaffective martial art for 20 years.. It doesn't mean I'm a great martial artist, it could very well mean I've 20 years of bad habits. I'm not saying this applys to John however but it is an example.

As these boards are for discussion, I see no harm is questioning John.

memphis

i just want to know why John is asks for such a high price for his course. Is there something wrong with being curious about such a high asking price for a 3 day course? The problem I have with John is that he appears to be avoiding the question.

I am not kocking John personally, nor am I knocking his training or MA skills. I don't know the guy so can't judge. I'm merely trying to establish why he feels in need to ask persons to pay 1700 for 3 days work.

Damo W

dlofnep wrote:

As these boards are for discussion, I see no harm is questioning John.

dlofnep, there is no harm in asking... and I llok forward to his response too.

but possibly its a simple answer... 'because he can'....

Cheers
Damo

dlofnep

True Damo, but I don't think that will be his answer

Roper

dlofnep wrote:

True Damo, but I don't think that will be his answer

I don't think we'll get an answer. Not one we're looking for anyway.



"I don't care what you write about me, just spell my name right"- P.T. Barnum.

Millionaire

I think that (not refering to John) but in general teaching martial arts (or anything else for that matter) that if you really genuinely want to help people , and they are enjoying it, and you teach it well, then its win win for everyone , yes its good to make a living from it.

You are passing on a valube life skills, say self defence, or helping someone loose weight and feell good through a martial arts lesson etc. then sure you can ask for a fee.

for example, women go in to the hair stylist ever so often and spend what 50 -70 100 euro getting colour or something into hair for a night out etc. ok that make her feel good that her hair looks great. or a councellor charges 70 to 100 euro for up to an hour.

so what about the MA Teacher, can he or she not charge similar for a few hours work???


just trying to throw some comparisons into the argument, from other trades etc.

dlofnep

Roper wrote:

I don't think we'll get an answer. Not one we're looking for anyway.

All we can do is ask.. If he chooses to avoid the question then that's his prerogative.