Omaha Hi/Lo

Marq

*** NO COMMENTARY FROM HOLD'EM PLAYERS PLEASE***
Does anybody else on this forum play Omaha Hi/Lo? Limit or Pot-Limit.

Over the past two weeks I have pretty much been playing the Limit variety of this game exclusively, from 2/4 up to 10/20, though mainly playing 5/10 or 3/6. I've been playing on Pokerstars and Full tilt though will be moving to Empire as soon as my rakeback account with them is set up.

Admittedly I have logged a very small sample size so far, but part of my query hinges on that. I have played around 2000 hands, the last 1000 of which I logged on Pokertracker.
My Stats are:
Voluntarily Put $ in the Pot: 33.19 % (higher at 5/10 than at the lower levels)
Won $ when saw flop: 44.68%
Big Bets per 100 hands: 11.56 (again higher at 5/10)
Went to Showdown: 48%
Won $ at Showdown: 55.74%
Preflop raise: 11.3%
Won Hi: 16.94% Won Lo: 5.98% Scooped: 14.29%
Aggression Factor %'s: PF 0.43 F 3.0 T 2.82 R 2.48 Total 1.5%
Folded SB to steal: 50%
Folded BB to steal: "NEVER!"
Attempts to steal blinds: 43.48%

Thus far I have had one (yes, one) losing session. i lost .17 BB/100, so I was ahead of the rake anyway.
My best session I was earning 22.17BB/100 at 5/10.
Pokertracker tells me that I'm getting in 67 hands an hour, and earning 7.82 BB/hour, though I'm not sure how accurate this is as it seems to have my Multi-table ratio somewhat aresways.

On top of the cash game hours, I have played the 22:30 GMT $20+2 Omaha Hi/Lo Limit Freezeout tournament 3 times on Pokerstars. I made the money in all three, and made the final table of two of them.


My questions for anyone who has spent any serious time playing Omaha Hi/Lo are these:

1) What are these figures like compared to the average player, or compared to other figures you have seen? I haven't played enough against any single opponent yet for pokertracker to give me truly accurate stats on another winning player.

2)Am I seeing the river too much? I think i might be involved in too many showdowns, though some seem unavoidable.

3)I think that my 11+ Big Bets per 100 hands is pretty big. Considering the limits that I'm playing, I've made quite a bit of cash so far at this game. Does anyone think that this is sustainable? I have found the variance to be extremely low, but would you reckon that this return is abnormally large? I've often heard that a decent ROI% for Hold'em is 2-3BB/hour, mine is 3 times that figure. In other words, what are my chances of keeping up this sort of return in the long run?

this is by far the most pertinent question for me at the moment, as I've only logged a 1000 hands.

4) There seems to be less variance in O8 than in Hold'em. Considering that, what would you reckon would be the bankroll requirements for moving up levels?

5)What are the recommended adjustments for tournament play? I raise a lot more before the flop than I do in ring games, particularly when the antes get bigger. For a game that usually has multi-way pots, what changes in strategy should be made for hands that are now usually 2-3 handed? do high only hands go up in value?

6) What is PL O8 like? I've only played Limit. any advice on the differences between the two? I'm sure they're worlds apart.

7) Apart from the sites I've mentioned, does anyone know of Poker Sites that seem to always have a medium stakes (2/4 - 10/20), 9 or 10-handed game going? Game selection is practically non-existant on the sites where I am playing at the moment. sometimes even the games themselves are non-existant.

If anyone has any insights into this game, or any advice on it, I would very much appreciate it.

BTW, I know that the sample size is small, so anyone that mentions it is going on the ignore list.

Needless to say (if only!), If you know nothing about Omaha Hi/Lo you shouldn't post a reply. Comments on ROI% and Bankroll are probably universal, so I won't be too annoyed should someone with a limit hold'em background have any advice. I'm hoping Nicky might be able to advise me in this regard.

Also, for those that are interested, I've recently quit my job as a dealer to return to college for my final year (or two!). Over the coming months I hope to support myself entirely through playing poker. I most likely won't be telling people how I'm doing, but if you see me dealing in the Fitz again you'll know I've failed. It's quite daunting. I'm scared

Hectorjelly

Ive played quite a bit of hi low, I dont know enough to judge poker tracker stats, but I know that hi lo has a much lower varience than holdem or omaha hi assuming you are playing bad players. For bad players they can never overcome the fact that they are often drawing to split the pot, and they make other such cruical mistakes of which there is no similar mistake in hold em.

The reason that more good players dont play hi lo is because (as you mentioned) there is no game selection, and as you get higher the games get very tough.

It sounds like you are running pretty well, so I wouldnt be surprised if the ROI came down a bit. Im not sure what a standard BB per hour is in hi lo, but if you dont get the answers your looking for here I can ask some of my friends who play hi lo solely for a living.

Pot limit is a totally different game. The biggest advantage you have in limit over bad players is probably your preflop hand selection, but in Pot limit you can isolate opponents and use all the other tricks that you learnt from hold em to make a profit.

The general tips that I give people just starting are never play a hand with a 9 in it. Its the worst of all cards being useless for low and not great for high (you might make an exception for (AA29ds), and dont overplay A2 rag rag. Position is very important in pot limit when deciding what hands to play. Im sure youve picked all that up already. Good luck!

Marq

I've found that position is more important in deciding which hands to raise with, but I think that the playable hands tend to remain playable in any position.

thanks for the reply, if you do have any friends who are playing this game for a living I'd love to know what they think of the stats and questions here.

If my ROI% halved I think I'd still be pleased now that I'm playing 5/10 90% of the time. 40 or 50 dollars an hour is still a good deal more than I was earning in a real job.

Lafortezza

Is the Omaha Hi/Lo you're playing the same game as PLO/8, they have a dedicated forum for PLO/8 on 2+2.

Marq

No it's limit. the forum on 2+2 is mainly pot-limit oriented. still some good discussion on limit, but not enough.

Royal Flush

Marq, hello and welcome to the wonderfull world of Limit Hi Lo!!

I am HJ's m8, he asked me to look at this thread and offer you some advice, sadly i am about to shoot out for dinner, however i will post something later tonight or more likely tomorrow.

I am glad to see you have taken to the game well and am glad you are doing well, i firmly believe this is the game where the best players have the biggest edge to the worst players, as HJ stated.

Anyway happy hunting untill tomorrow!!

Marq

cheers mate, I look forward to it.

Royal Flush

Right here we go....lol

I will quickly answer your particular questions.

1+3 Yes it is a little high, but its quite resonable that when you really get a feel for the game you can maintain 3-5 bb's/hr online, obviously if you multitable then this can become quite significant.

2 Lots of hands go to showdown in Limit as it is, and this is made even worse with the Split side of the game, naturally this means that a lot of hands go down to a showdown. However you should be winning a higer % of these.

4 your right, the variance is MUCH MUCH lower. I still however keep to this guideline for all Limit games. 300x the big bet, you cant go wrong with this, of course like i say in O/8 you can get away with less but i would try to keep to this if you can.

5 my tournament experience is fairly shallow, i dont believe that limit makes for good tournaments, however i have had some success in these on stars, Hi hands go up massively in value as the runners ina pot decrease (like in PL) so late stage of tournaments you will be pushing these hands that normally you might fold in a cash game.

6 PLO/8 is a very diffrent game, agan i have had resonable success, but i dont really feel like i am in a position to give advice.

7 Empire/Party have much better game selection i see you are planning on moving to empire. On a side note you wont be able to get rakeback on there as Party are removing the reporting system in an attempt to stop an affilaite war created through rakeback.

It is possible to get rakeback through Corals on the same network, as they are the only ones with a seperate cage on the network. However on Corals you are not able to access the Party/Empire tournaments.

Another plus is the use of debit cards which makes life easier, but if you use neteller it doesnt make much diffrence.


As for the game itself, it seems that you are doing fine, but i always offer the same words to players asking about the game.

O/8 is a game where you win by others mistakes, not your own brilliance, all you need to do is exploit these mistakes. Basically you will win at O/8 by just being tight, stick to A2xx A3sxx AKJT etc, stay away as HJ says from hands like TT99, they are worthless.

Post flop its like all forms of omaha, draw to the nuts. Unlike PLO8 quite often u will have the odds to chase the low on its own!! (multiway pots) or the low with just backdoor draws. Many times you will get in those situations where you have a freeroll and unlike PL yolu will get multiple calls. You will also often get a chance to cap the flop against some fish who thinks that flopping a nut str8 is like it is in holdem. The amount of times i have been called a fish for capping with A288 on a 87J flop against T9 is unreal. Maximise these big flops.

As you get better you will get more experienced on knowing when you can draw to the non-nuts. These usually come in those Hu/3 way pots where you know they both have the hi and you have a 2nd nut low draw, or vice versa. These also become profitable pots, but these are harder to play, and you will make mistakes.


To answer the general theme of your questions, yes the stats are a little to good, they will fall back a bit, but you can retain a high level. My best tip is play multi tables to relieve boredom, it is a pass-fest! I tend to play 4 at a time, anything less and my hourly rate goes DOWN per table because of lack of discipline!

I aint felling to great today (nothing to do with last night of course!! ) If i have forgotten anything or you have any more questions then please feel free and i will try to get a reply up later.

GOOD LUCK!

Marq

Royal Flush, thank you very much for the advice. It's very helpful.

Royal Flush

Marq wrote:

Royal Flush, thank you very much for the advice. It's very helpful.

Np always happy to help.

Another good tip is play HJ headsup, its like printing money!