Whats an acceptable cut for pub tourney organisers?

Coillte_Bhoy

Just wonder what ye think is an acceptable cut for organisers of pub tourneys? Vegas Nights for one seem to have a bad name for fleecing players in Dublin but it is a business venture for them.

I am not thinking of changing Electric Mouse tourneys or anyt6hing but just curious what other players think. The tourneys in The Electric Mouse will continue to have a 100% payout.

monkey pleasure

this is an issue thats really starting to bug my of late, i know of these guys setting one up in my local soon and their rake is 60%.
20% is going to charity and my issue doesnt lie here far from it, but 40% from an estimated prize pool of €1500 seems to be daylight robbery and their getting the venue for free of charge.
the worst thing about it is they will inevitably get the numbers most of which will be beginners who will be drunk to do math

Imposter

Coillte_Bhoy wrote:

Just wonder what ye think is an acceptable cut for organisers of pub tourneys?

An upper cut.

Lafortezza

Just a reg fee.
If organsiers are running a €100 freezeout for 100 people then it should cost €100 + whatever reg the organisers need to cover costs/pay wages/make the profit they want.
If they're running a rebuy tourney, then the rebuy(s) need to have a reg fee with them too. Like Pokerevents.ie's tournaments of late.

I don't like the idea of organisers saying "All entry fees go into the prizepool, management reserve the right to use 15% of prizepool to cover costs". It's just not transparent enough.

The general poker playing public aren't clever enough to see they're being ripped off, or else just don't care.

padser

Yeah i agree that there should always be a set reg fee. Played a lot in ucd poker soc last yr and it was an absoluted disgrace how much went to the organisers. i played about 12 weeks, had 4 pay out finishes including a second place (about 60 players most nights) but still ended up down as so much was taken from the prize poool.

poker players need to be more aware of it because especially in a tournmanent situation its so easy to be ripped off

roryc

UCD is well known for taking around 95.5% from the prizepool for emmm 'costs'. But Jesus, it's run so well its nearly worth it. Oh, just watch out for decks with five 5's in it....

Neviller

I played in Vegas Nights tournie last nite. 21 entrants @ €20 , there were 23 rebuys ( may have missed 1 or 2 ) and then 15 top ups @ €20 . 1st got 250 + 50 ticket , 2nd 150 + 25 , 3rd 50 + 25 , 4th reentry ( 20 ) I guestimated pool of 1080. It seems only 50% payed out

air_vent

Are you sure its vegas nights. I used to work for them he generally gave 70% out but I left the country so don know the present situatuion.

roryc

Even 70% is bad, surely? I mean, in a pot of 4K then he'd be taking 1,200. Bull****.

I think it should be costs + 10%

Dub13

The standard should be 10% to 15%.

DeVore

Dub13 wrote:

The standard should be 10% to 15%.

I would agree. Max.

DeV.

Waylander

To be honest I think it is up to the individual to make his own decision on whether he feels he is being ripped off or not. I certainly do not think it is fair to compare the rake a legitimate organiser takes to that of a casino in town, ie 10%. The casino makes money in other areas and can afford to take a hit on tournie play, as most players will go and play blackjack or cash games too. Like I say each individual player has to make a call, but in order to do this he needs to have all relevant information prior to the start of the tournie. This is difficult to do when the tournie is a rebuy but if the organiser stated a set percentage of the fund he would take, or a fixed amount he would take from the pool, you would be able to do some sums and decide on the value.

Ste05

lafortezza wrote:

The general poker playing public aren't clever enough to see they're being ripped off, or else just don't care.

I think this is what is exactly the case, IMO people don't really care, most of the people that go to these pub events are just wanting to play in a poker tournament like they see on telly nowadays. They don't expect to win it or to finish in the money, they would hope to but if they did it's just a bonus, they just want to have fun.

There might be a handful of people at these tournaments that actually care about the prize fund. Or even know about this kind of rip-off happening.
This is why this Boards proposed Association/Union will be so good for the sport as a whole, to protect the unsuspecting public from this kind of thing.

But while they can get away with it, they are going to .... it's certainly +EV for these guys.... :mad:

califano

Dub13 wrote:

The standard should be 10% to 15%.

i would agree with 12.5% i think they deserve it. i was at shortstacks drogheda game last nite and theres a lot of set up and organisation involved but more than that its the time the organisers put into it at unsocial hours. like i was leaving at about 1am and there was still at least 3 tables left so theyre finishing up everytime they host these nights at about 2.30-3am. wouldnt fancy it myself so i definately wouldnt begrudge 12.5%

Ste05

rounders123 wrote:

i definately wouldnt begrudge 12.5%

Neither would most people I'd say, I certaintly wouldn't either. Although a set reg. fee might be better for some, but having said that there's alot to be said for keeping the actual amount you have to pay in to the tournament low so more people can play and not be put off by the higher price. i.e. $25 - 50 as opposed to maybe $35 - 65.

In my last post I was really referring to situations when it's a 40 - 50% take.

Coillte_Bhoy

A mate of mine is involved with some crew down south (wont tell me thier name...yet) and they are running €20 entry, unlimted rebuys 15 for 1 hour and top up - both €15. They are charging a €5 reg fee on the entry just and taking 10% of reuys. Thought this wasn't too bad.

Neviller

Absolutely . maybe it was there were so few playing . But I played other nights and guestimated a prizepool of 2.5K and only 1400 paid out.Thats why i decided to count the rebuys & top ups

podge018

was at a vegasnights event myself last night. 35 entrants, not sure of rebuys and top-ups but 1st got €600, not sure about 2nd and 3rd, 4th got €100 and 5th got €60. 6,7,8,9 got vouchers for another vegasnight.

air_vent

I suppose what we are dealing with is mickey mouse outfits at the end of the day. If a casino messed you over would you go back??? Only a fool ,you go where you feel your treated right full stop.

If you think about the whole senario of playing poker in your local with a bunch of jokers and first timers what do you expect.

i would agree with 12.5% i think they deserve it. i was at shortstacks drogheda game last nite and theres a lot of set up and organisation involved but more than that its the time the organisers put into it at unsocial hours. like i was leaving at about 1am and there was still at least 3 tables left so theyre finishing up everytime they host these nights at about 2.30-3am. wouldnt fancy it myself so i definately wouldnt begrudge 12.5%

And the oul fellas who claim they know the game better than the officials when they are clearly wrong try listening to that all night !!!!

The lads doing the chips and the cards take all the abuse!!! NO FAIR!! I used to do this take all the grief thats not how you chip this.... so and so dont do chip races thats stupid .......you name it I've had it. At the end of the day we get paid 50 euro for the night.
When you confront these people and explain your still an idiot, so you give the heads number they just laugh at you.

I bet any money that at least one person here has had a go at the lads who do this but never go to the boss who will care cause I know I sure didnt.
Anyway bit off topic needed to be said!