Continuation Bets

Ste05

Assume you nearly always make continuation bets on the flop between 1/2 pot to full pot, (mixing up the game) whether you hit or not, Cash Game.

Now assume that you miss the flop and this bet is called, should you fire another bet on the turn as a matter of course if you fail to improve again, just for your table image??

I know there's alot of varibales in play at the time, So take a hypothetical situation you raise 4x BB in MP, called by the button, who is an average player, no fish, and seems solid enough.

You have AKd
Flop is 7c, 3h, Qs,

Your 1/2 pot sized (usual bet that you'd make with QQ or this AK) continuation bet is called....

Turn is 9h

1)What should you do??

Lets say the same scenario develops with different opponents such as:
2) A Passive Calling station
3) An absolute fish who could have any two cards and will call all the way with A high
4) A good TAG player
5) A maniac

Does it even matter, should you check fold, taking this call as a show of strength, or bet so you're big hands will be called later??

This is a completely hypothetical situation so feel free to add any other relevant factors you should take into account.

padser

2) passive calling station - no bet. so many better places to bet against him.

3) fish - bet half the pot. Still a good chance AK is ahead and he will still call

after that im not sure.. but in general 2 out of 3 times he will have missed the flop as well and ak is still winning

hotspur

Bit of advice - if you only fire single barrels on missed boards you're gonna get massacred in any serious company - soon you'll have players bluff calling you on the flop with nothing so they can raise you out if you check the turn.

Ste05

It's this 1 out of 3 times that he will normally call though, unless he's planning on making a play, and with a below average player this will be obvious, hopefully.....

Ste05

hotspur wrote:

Bit of advice - if you only fire single barrels on missed boards you're gonna get massacred in any serious company - soon you'll have players bluff calling you on the flop with nothing so they can raise you out if you check the turn.

i.e. you advocate always firing twice hit or miss, regardless, of the flop, player, etc. etc.????

hotspur

Nope, I'm not dumb But when in doubt do you want to be passive or aggressive? Ooh ooh wait I know this one I read it in a book...

Ste05

OK, then maybe try actually giving an a constructive opinion instead of quoting clíche's :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

As with most poker answers the answer is it depends???

ntlbell

Ste05 wrote:

OK, then maybe try actually giving an a constructive opinion instead of quoting clíche's :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

As with most poker answers the answer is it depends???

Are you only asking about cash games?

What do you do in the situation Ste?

Ste05

Ye just cash games, I think there are too many other variables to take into account in a tournament...

I'd generally try to play the player in these spots, if I can put him on some kind of a draw I'll generally fire again, if a card falls that I think will be a scare card to him, I'll also normally fire again, if I think he'll fold.

However in spots like this above I'm not sure my play is optimal, basically because all I can really see him calling with is trips or a decent Q, to have called my Pre-Flop raise and my flop bet, so I think I'd have to check fold, but here's where my dilemna appears, if I check fold here, how will my made hands get paid later?? My thinking is to save this bet and wait for a lesser player to pay off my good hands.

RoundTower

Betting here is essentially a bluff. You certainly don't have to bluff every time you are put in this situation, only if you think it has a good chance of success. If you put your opponent on trips or top pair with a good kicker, it is very enterprising, and unprofitable to try and make him fold.

The money you lose from putting in all your money when you know you are behind and will be called is a lot more than you will gain from people calling you later. There are plenty of bad players who will do that anyway. If there are none of those players at your table, you are at the wrong table.

mewso

I think if its a bad player then betting the turn is more likely to be a bad move. Against a better player who understands pot odds and the continuation bet it will have more value. The bad player is more likely to have something here imo.

hotspur

What limits are you playing at Ste05?

willis

Anyone can fire 1 bullet, maybe even 2.its the ability to fire that 3rd bullet (at the right time against the right opponent) that separates the best from the rest

Ste05

hotspur wrote:

What limits are you playing at Ste05?

I play within my bankroll, which at the moment is reduced :mad: :mad: due to an enforced cashout.

hotspur

Cause the advice is obviously different according to the amounts involved, when another bullet is $20 who cares about firing or calling it, $200 is different. And stop playing within your bankroll, what kind of non-degenerate talk is that??? call yourself a poker player

Ste05

hotspur wrote:

Cause the advice is obviously different according to the amounts involved, when another bullet is $20 who cares about firing or calling it, $200 is different. And stop playing within your bankroll, what kind of non-degenerate talk is that??? call yourself a poker player

LOL - just giving the safe answer thought the question was a bit double edged,

Ste05

Although I've found following my own advice has proved quite good lately, I should really think more about the game as I play, and not just when it's not too busy in work :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Hectorjelly

Knowing when to fire 1 2 or 3 barrells is probably one of the most important advanced strategies for cash game play. I couldnt even begin to explain it all here, but here are some hints.

1) The most important factor is your opponent
2) The second most important factor is the previous history between you and your opponet
2) The third most important factor is the texture of the board.
3) The fourth factor is your cards

Assuming the hand is heads up, I will almost always bet the flop if I miss completely and my hand has no legitamate chance of winning a showdown. Ie 56o on a JQA board.

If Im in position, I will often check behind when I miss the flop, but am likely to win the hand anyway. Ie AK on a 456 board. If you get in the habit of this it will stop pots spiralling out of control.