Poker Cheats - online

Neviller

Anyone here of a site offering the ability to see other players hold cards. If this is true then it raises serious questions about the security of online poker

EL_Loco

yes it would, if it were true.
got a link?
did you give it a try?

Davey Devil

I've got it and I still lose.

Stupid rigged poker.

Blitzkrieger

I saw a site (almost typed ****e - must be Freudian) advertising that too. On the index page there was a big disclaimer saying there's no actual cheating involved and it's just a book that teaches you how to play poker so well you can 'see' your opponents cards. There's always one..........

Healio

This guy sells the information (apparently)

CoD

it works by having to put some sort of trojan or program on the othr peoples computers, then you need to know the ip address and you can gain access to their pc and see their screen, ie. their cards.

ntlbell

So you need to know 8 players who play on 9 handed table, know all their ip address's hope their all online at the same time then convince them all to run an exe to open the back door, connect to 8 of their machines flick through these 8 screens and play your own cards

right.......

if you put that much time into your poker you wouldn't need to cheat.

Ste05

Have a look at this

I'm not sure if you need to log in to see this page but, this guy has a real bee in his bonnet about exposing Poker Cheats

azzeretti

The very idea of this madens me. But technically this is very difficult to do. The client/server nature of poker clients would mean you would need to comprise either the server (very difficult) or ALL the clients connected to your table (to many variable here too). I be interested to know if Site Admins (PPP Pit-boss?) can see tables hands in real time or can they only view table logs after.
Anyway, i would prefer to dump $50 on a STT than give a tosser selling this kinda software it!!

Ste05

Davey Devil wrote:

I've got it and I still lose.

Stupid rigged poker.

Great Post

NickyOD

Davey Devil wrote:

I've got it and I still lose.

Stupid rigged poker.

You do know a run beats a blue don't you?

Vikings

azzeretti wrote:

I be interested to know if Site Admins (PPP Pit-boss?) can see tables hands in real time or can they only view table logs after.

Im pretty sure admins can see the cards as they are dealt as one of my mates works for an online gambling company and thats what im led to beleive.

Ste05

IncredibleBulk wrote:

Im pretty sure admins can see the cards as they are dealt as one of my mates works for an online gambling company and thats what im led to beleive.

I'd be very suprised if they can!!!!! That would make the system hackable surely????
Although PokerNight Live on PokerZone can,,, so possibly?????

Nalced_irl

Poker admins cant see any cards until after the hand has completed for obvious reasons. And as for these people trying to sell cheats ect. think about it, you buy it from them, it turns out to be a complete joke....whats your next move? bring them to court? I dont think so. They make money from naieve people who convince themselves that this thing will work and when they find out it doesnt they have no comeback so its easy money for them. All poker sites have strict security against this kind of thing so it is unhackable from that end. On the players' side, i cant honestly imagine somebody hacking into 7 or 8 computers without being noticed. Besides, think logically about it, if you had something that could make you this much, would you sell it for £1.99??

Imposter

On a related note do any of the online sites publish information on the security features built into their software? Or the procedures and protocols they follow when security issues arise?

The reason I ask is that most players don't seem to know what features exist or not on sites. It's also similar to the collusion thread in that it seems that all the sites seem to rely on security based on secret information (we know stuff because we have x, y and z but we can't tell you what x, y and z are or how they work) which is not exactly the best way to give players confidence that your system/site/procedures are actually secure.

Ste05

I read somewhere, that PokerStars are one of the only sites that have the integrity of their software checked by experts. Apparently they got in the crowd that hacked into Party Poker when Party first started. And apparently Stars software was unhackable... Can't remember where I read this, it was some time ago, but I think that was the situation at the time, I'm sure with the way on-line Poker has grown though that they all have these checks in place now. But I agree with Imposter that there should be a little more transparancy here, not so as to give hackers, etc. more information, but just to put the players at ease.

ntlbell

Ste05 wrote:

. Apparently they got in the crowd that hacked into Party Poker when Party first started. And apparently Stars software was unhackable...

[font=&quot]Without getting to pedantic, anyone making the claim their software/service is "unhackable" is making a big mistake.

Any server that sits on an internet connection is hackable, the only one that isn't is one that's turned off and locked in a safe.

What can't be exploited today may very well be venerable tomorrow.

I would say with the nature of the client server infrastructure, the most likely point for hackers wouldn't be to cheat at poker, but to get the vast amount of credit card/debit card details that sit on server's belonging to these companies, which will never ever be "unhackable"[/font]

Kelly101

http://cgi.ebay.ie/ONLINE-POKER-PROFITS-SEE-OTHER-PLAYERS-TEXAS-HOLDEM_W0QQitemZ5618083479QQcategoryZ47103QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

they sell this stuff on ebay for 3 euro

Ste05

ntlbell wrote:

[font=&quot]Without getting to pedantic, anyone making the claim their software/service is "unhackable" is making a big mistake.

It could be something to do with their Random Number Generator and the ability to predict the cards, or something like that, as I say I read it sometime ago, and as I'm not a computer "whiz kid" I couldn't stand over anything here, but just from my recollection of the article. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

ntlbell

Ste05 wrote:

It could be something to do with their Random Number Generator and the ability to predict the cards, or something like that, as I say I read it sometime ago, and as I'm not a computer "whiz kid" I couldn't stand over anything here, but just from my recollection of the article. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Ah no, I'm not doubting you read it or saying you're wrong, not just for PPP i mean anyone (any online company) making that claim can get themselves into trouble.

Ste05

Ye I wasn't being defensive, I understood what you meant, I just think I might have given the wrong impression with my original post and wanted to correct it, in case there was any confusion about PokerStars making claims that they didn't, I think they are one of the most trustworthy sites, and just didn't want to give off the wrong impression.

PPP-Pit Boss

azzeretti wrote:

The very idea of this madens me. But technically this is very difficult to do. The client/server nature of poker clients would mean you would need to comprise either the server (very difficult) or ALL the clients connected to your table (to many variable here too). I be interested to know if Site Admins (PPP Pit-boss?) can see tables hands in real time or can they only view table logs after.
Anyway, i would prefer to dump $50 on a STT than give a tosser selling this kinda software it!!

We cannot see hands in real-time only as historical logs. We do view historical logs of all players hands but it would be our rule NEVER to send or to discuss play with other players (as I demonstrated last week much to the disdain of some :0)).

kpnuts

I have this programme... I bought the initial one a couple of years ago, it was called Super See ... but then Super See II came out last year with extra features...

I am winning tens of thousands per day now, I can see everyone's cards, EVERY SINGLE HAND anyone plays against me online

KP :cool:

corblimey

I have this programme too and not only can I see everybody else's cards but it also seems to be installed on my tv, 'cos everytime I watch the WPT on Challenge, I can see all the hands there too. Scary! How do I uninstall it?

Fatboydim

I am selling a hundred percent effective insect killer. It consists of two wooden blocks... A and B. Place insect you want to kill on block A and press down hard with block B.

only €4.99

Zab

I think a lot of people overreact when they are thinking about security on poker sites. However, I also think you can take this too lightly.

For instance, trojans were mentioned on this thread. Ever given your email address to somebody you play with online regularly? I have. Even ignoring being specifically targeted, some of the more successful internet worms have infected millions of machines at their peak. There is no reason why somebody couldn't use a similar device to see hole cards being played on an infected machine. Unlikely, I agree, and my point here isn't that you should remove all poker software from your machine, just that people do need to consider the security of their personal computer, make sure that software is updated, virus software in place, what software they run, etc.

The other side of the equation is the poker software and server itself. Unfortunately, a certain amount of trust is required here. Most of the larger poker sites are making enough money in rake not to want to damage themselves by being caught undermining their clients. However, even if we assume that the company is honest, most software is vulnerable in some way. The PRNG was mentioned earlier, and I did read an article a few years ago about a poker site being exploited in this manner (I'll try to dig up a link in a second). In reality randomness is no longer a worry, as long as you trust the people who implemented and authenticated it not to have screwed you over. It's a well thought out section of computer science. There are also method of giving a computer a truly random number, although I don't know if any sites use this.

Of course, there is a server somewhere that knows your hole cards. If somebody could control that server, I can only assume that they could also know your hole cards. I haven't seen much information about how poker sites guard themselves beyond brochure type information. They seem to be taking the security through obscurity approach, which is a shame. Of course, I'm sure that they do actively guard themselves. I would prefer if they all shared more information on this side of things, but I guess we just have to trust them, and given that I play poker online, I seems that I decided somewhere along the way that I do indeed trust them.

I suppose the last part is the information traveling between the sever and your computer. Obviously this is encrypted, and again encryption is a question of computer science and mathematics. Even if somebody could gather all the encrypted data being transferred to clients, it would have to be unencrypted pretty quickly to be of use in an ongoing hand of poker. The encryption used by the poker sites can't be broken that quickly with current technology. This will change, but so will the encryption.

I'd say that the weakest part of online poker security is the username and password, and the second weakest is other software running on the client machine. Both of these are in the client's hands, so it's up to you to make sure they're secure to the best of your ability. Given the amount of spyware I've seen on various machine, most people don't seem this think about this at all.

Anyway, I didn't intend to write this much, and the above is just what came to me at the time. I'm sure there are lots of holes in it.


Don't know if this is the same article I read, but it's the same flaw.
http://www.cigital.com/news/index.php?pg=art&artid=20

Mark J

Neviller wrote:

Anyone here of a site offering the ability to see other players hold cards. If this is true then it raises serious questions about the security of online poker

yea, i bought it. up 25k in a day!!! it`s brill!

mewso

Zab wrote:

just that people do need to consider the security of their personal computer, make sure that software is updated, virus software in place, what software they run, etc.

Not to turn this in to a tecchy thread but make sure you have a firewall if you are concerned. Virus software is imo not as important (when is the last time you ran some mysterious attachment to your email), use free virus software.