The EU and consumers

Chipboard

I was in Majorca recently and the ability to use Euros is I admit quiet handy but it really brought home to me the fact that it is one of the few benefits of European Union. The Euro was supposed to level out prices across Europe by making them more comparable but it hasnt at all. Every major road out in Majorca has bill boards advertising new cars and one that stuck in my mind was the Seat Ibiza for around €9,000 (because that was the rental car I was driving). If I wanted to purchase a Seat Ibiza here it would cost €14,440 because the govt has taken away what would have been a great consumer benefit of european union (cheap cars) by slapping on vehicle registration tax to get around the EU's rules which forbids taxing the price of the car. It really is going against the spirit of the EU but it doesnt matter because its money in the govt's coffers. Half a bottle of wine with dinner out there was €3.50 buts its not much good being able to compare prices if the government ensures that its taxation policies prevent you from enjoying the cheaper price. Sure I could purchase wine out there and bring it home but its not practical. Bringing the cheap car home however would be practical so the govt stops me by imposing VRT.

Can anyone name an actual benefit of European Union (apart from all the grants and subsidies which have made us the inefficient lot we are today and are now being withdrawn).

Guy:Incognito

Chipboard wrote:

one that stuck in my mind was the Seat Ibiza for around €9,000

If you were living and working there you'd probably also only be earning this much PA.

Prices maybe higher here, but so are earnings. So unless everyone in the EA starts earning the same prices will be different, you cant have it both ways, high wages and low prices.

Chipboard

A key component of European Union was harmonisation - obviously this didn't work either.

Sarsfield

Chipboard wrote:

A key component of European Union was harmonisation - obviously this didn't work either.

As part of the deal, are you prepared to 'harmonize' your income with that of your Southern European counterpart?

Can anyone name an actual benefit of European Union (apart from all the grants and subsidies which have made us the inefficient lot we are today and are now being withdrawn).

Changing from being the equivalent of Albania, to one of the wealthiest countries on earth?
Freedom to go to Majorca on holidays with total ease?
An open, more enlightened and broad-minded society?
Do you remember life BEFORE we joined the EEC? OK, I don't either (I was 2 at the time). But my most accounts we were backward in every way.

And Irish productivity is extremely high, so I don't know where you get the idea we're so inefficient!

boa-constrictor

Sarsfield wrote:

As part of the deal, are you prepared to 'harmonize' your income with that of your Southern European counterpart?

It could mean that or it could mean their income rising - it doesn't matter - harmonisation was one of the key aims.

Sarsfield wrote:

Changing from being the equivalent of Albania, to one of the wealthiest countries on earth?

God, I always thought Charlie Haughey and Bertie Ahearn were responsible for that (I jest).

Sarsfield wrote:

Freedom to go to Majorca on holidays with total ease?

It isn't any easier than going to a country which is not a member.

Sarsfield wrote:

An open, more enlightened and broad-minded society?

Thats very much a matter of opinion.

Sarsfield wrote:

Do you remember life BEFORE we joined the EEC? OK, I don't either (I was 2 at the time). But my most accounts we were backward in every way.

My parents remember it well and they always said that even back when the govt were talking up the benefits of joining the EEC - it was all false promises.

Sarsfield wrote:

And Irish productivity is extremely high, so I don't know where you get the idea we're so inefficient!

We're one of the most expensive countries to employ a person in, and if you think that the Irish are productive you should see some of the eastern Europeans at work.

Guy:Incognito

boa-constrictor wrote:

It could mean that or it could mean their income rising - it doesn't matter - harmonisation was one of the key aim.

Surely you're not naive enough to think that if they ave to start paying people in Majorca/wherever the same as we get paid here, that prices will stay low in this country. Theres this thing they invented a few years back called economics, which details why the prices will rise.

Companies arent setting up in eastern europe because of the sceneryyou know, its because its cheap, so when it ceases to be cheap, they will either raise prices or piss off to another cheap country.

Chipboard

Stekelly wrote:

Surely you're not naive enough to think that if they ave to start paying people in Majorca/wherever the same as we get paid here, that prices will stay low in this country. Theres this thing they invented a few years back called economics, which details why the prices will rise.

Companies arent setting up in eastern europe because of the sceneryyou know, its because its cheap, so when it ceases to be cheap, they will either raise prices or piss off to another cheap country.

I think your missing the point. The car isn't cheaper in Majorca because labour is cheaper. I think you'll find its not assembled in Majorca (or indeed in Ireland). Its cheap because of the difference in taxation. I'm not going to resort to sarcasm to make my point.

Nevermind.

Guy:Incognito

Chipboard wrote:

I think your missing the point. The car isn't cheaper in Majorca because labour is cheaper. I think you'll find its not assembled in Majorca (or indeed in Ireland). Its cheap because of the difference in taxation. I'm not going to resort to sarcasm to make my point.

Nevermind.

How could they charge people in a country who earn 40% less ( dont know the figure so I made one up) the same price for the car? People simply wouldnt be able to afford to buy one, which is a bad thing for the government. If they were suddenly getting paid 40% more, you can bet your ass prices will rise to reflect what people can now afford to pay, it has nothing to do with where its made.

OfflerCrocGod

Chipboard wrote:

I think your missing the point. The car isn't cheaper in Majorca because labour is cheaper.

Actually yes it is. For the vast majority of businesses the biggest expense is labour. People are expensive. The cheaper they are the cheaper your goods can sell for.

MorningStar

It all depends on what you think harmonisation means!

I like the fact our government and laws are answerable to another court. THe government has to act correctly and match up to it's european peers. Don't forget the US would not be allowed join the EU. Turkey no longer use capital punishment.
The prime purpose of the ECC was to prevent war and encourage fair trade to stop the first major point.

The poverty in Ireland was not imagined or was it in Spain or Italy.

The problem is there are 4 different models for the EU that are still not sorted out. People in Ireland seem to want a socialist economy where everything is cheap. It's impossible to have cheap items and pay everyone a fair wage while taking care of those in need. People don't want this they are all looking out for themselves and think they did it on their own and think people can just get by by working hard.
The OP original point is basically the EU did nothing for us and we pay too much. I remember when all my friends older brothers/sisters left the country because there was no money or jobs. Now there is money and jobs and people are complaining that their fancy car is expensive yet they can afford it. :rolleyes:

Chipboard

OfflerCrocGod wrote:

Actually yes it is. For the vast majority of businesses the biggest expense is labour. People are expensive. The cheaper they are the cheaper your goods can sell for.

I have no doubt that you believe that statement but in this case you are wrong. I'm not referring to a manufacturing business or a business that is labour intensive - if I was you would be correct. The car I'm talking about is not made in Majorca or Ireland. The business therefore is importation. The only difference in cost is due to the VRT and possibly minor differences in shipping. The amount of labour required to import a car (one unit) would be so small for a garage importing thousands of cars a year that it wouldn't affect the price. If you dont believe me ask a garage owner who imports cars. I know a garage in the midlands who used to import thousands of new cars and sell them on to other countries. Up until the law was changed a couple of years ago they had 19 car tranporters on the road taking cars in thru Dublin port and transporting them to their depot in the midlands where they would sit until they were sold on to other countries and they were still making a profit. If it was profitable for them to do this then I dont think it is labour that is pushing up the price of cars.

Guy:Incognito

Chipboard wrote:

I have no doubt that you believe that statement but in this case you are wrong. I'm not referring to a manufacturing business or a business that is labour intensive - if I was you would be correct. The car I'm talking about is not made in Majorca or Ireland. The business therefore is importation. The only difference in cost is due to the VRT and possibly minor differences in shipping. The amount of labour required to import a car (one unit) would be so small for a garage importing thousands of cars a year that it wouldn't affect the price. If you dont believe me ask a garage owner who imports cars. I know a garage in the midlands who used to import thousands of new cars and sell them on to other countries. Up until the law was changed a couple of years ago they had 19 car tranporters on the road taking cars in thru Dublin port and transporting them to their depot in the midlands where they would sit until they were sold on to other countries and they were still making a profit. If it was profitable for them to do this then I dont think it is labour that is pushing up the price of cars.

I feel I have to repeat myself becaus eyou ignored my point. People in Majorca earn a lot less than here, therefore if the cars cost the same as here they wouldnt sell any. Low wages = low prices. High wages = high prices, its all relative. The percentages of your income you are spending on things is probably much the same as what the spanish in majorca are paying for theirs.

OfflerCrocGod

Chipboard wrote:

If it was profitable for them to do this then I dont think it is labour that is pushing up the price of cars.

As Stekelly has already said the lower your wages the less you can afford when it comes to imported goods. So a person in a poorer country doesn't have the purchasing power of a person in a rich country when it comes to an imported good, the EU was never meant to solve this "problem". It was meant to help engender cross border trade which it does very well; this increase in trade increases the wealth of the people in the country making imported goods more affordable and home produced and/or processed goods more expensive. Then there is also the fact that our social services are different and may therefore require more/less taxation which blurs the price differences. Anyway read this, it should help you see how much of a difference labour makes.

GERMANY remains the most expensive country in the European Union for employers, with average employment costs topping £35,000 — despite more than two years of labour market reforms.

At just under £4,610 per employee the Slovak Republic has the lowest remuneration costs in the EU,

You want the EU to "fix" that? That's not an EU problem it's a country by country problem. Do you want to have prices as low as Poland, simple everyone simply takes paycuts to €8000 and then everything will just get cheaper!

MorningStar

I think it has to be mentioned that cars in the UK are also more expensive than main land Europe. VRT is part of it but not all of it. The actual shipping cost of a car is highish but the administration of such logistics is also expensive.

Ann Elk

Can anyone name a benefit of the EU ???????? You're friggin kidding me right?

Employee protection legislation - stopping workers from being abused

Working time directive - making sure you don't geta attended by a medical student on the back end of an 80 hr shift

Giving us a draft human rights bill

Forcing the government to provide drinkable water to the country

Forcing the government to update our inhumane and dickensian prison and mental health systems which have been condemned by the UN and Amnesty

Giving us a forum to appeal against unfair judicial proceedures in our home country

Ensuring that food is labelled so we know what we're putting in our bodies.

Banning angel dust

Fining our government for destroying our heritage so we don't have to live in a slag heap

Enacting pollution legislation so we don't all choke

Is that enough for you Chipboard? I'd rather that then a Seat Ibiza - it's not all about money you know.