Why were Martial Arts Invented

Millionaire

Why were Martial Arts Invented?

I mentioned this on other thread. came into my head between by 5 and 6th can of Bud last night. :-)

anyway I have my own idea (not prizes for guessing at this stage) so I will input later. so lets turn the question to the panel....


Why were Martial Arts Invented?

dlofnep

It depends on what you class as martial arts.. I think someone firstly developed some techniques which he felt would benefit him in combat - I think at later stages other people started to add religion into martial arts as a whole.. Meh, something to that effect.

memphis

I've never really thought about this. But my guess is that it was started as a mean of unarmed combat. A way of defence against large numbers when not armed, etc. Such as flying kick to knock a guy from his horse and the likes.

I know that some of the Korean MA's were believed to be a way of smashing through enemies armour and that with a single blow and all that.

Cabelo

The hint is in the name. A martial art is a way of turning the otherwise ridiculous morass of combat into a set art. Something refined and practiced. With that would come skill... surely?

Le Rack

most are arts of fighting and not just like street fighting where you pummel eachother. The like of Shao Lin is part of the Buddist monks religion and with serious martial artists its an actual way of life a discipline on oneself. My association was formed by Grandmaster Cho who learned TKD to protect himself from bullies at about teh age of 7/9 ish, with serious training he was black belt at thirteen and a few years later he was recruited to train the Korean special forces. TKD is a way of life to me, a hobby, soon to be a career, and something that I'm actually good at, unlike everything else I've tried in life.

TwoKingMick

Ah, but were martial arts invented?
Or were they in fact discovered?
Discuss.

Roper

Le Rack wrote:

most are arts of fighting and not just like street fighting where you pummel eachother.

Fighting is fighting no matter how much you want it to be something else. In my experience, much of the 'art' tends to go out the window once someone gets hopped on. Then it becomes 'pummelling'.

paddyc

they evolved from the battle fields, and took the shape they have today.

pma-ire

Millionaire wrote:

Why were Martial Arts Invented?

I mentioned this on other thread. came into my head between by 5 and 6th can of Bud last night. :-)

anyway I have my own idea (not prizes for guessing at this stage) so I will input later. so lets turn the question to the panel....


Why were Martial Arts Invented?

Fist they had to be for survival??

Then they evolved to the "ideal" in combat and moved from "Jitsu"(practice) to "Do"(art/way).

RedRaven

Millionaire wrote:

Why were Martial Arts Invented?

I mentioned this on other thread. came into my head between by 5 and 6th can of Bud last night. :-)

anyway I have my own idea (not prizes for guessing at this stage) so I will input later. so lets turn the question to the panel....


Why were Martial Arts Invented?

I think they are honed and refined instictive physical responses that eventually became art forms i.e. great apes fighting usually ends up with the winner on top beating the head and chest of his opponent kinda like a ground and pound you see in UFC today.

The natural resourses given to all animals are used to the best of their advantage i.e. horses kick and bite, Lions use tooth and nail, snakes use venom, spiders use web and venom..the list of weapons go on, but humans what do they have apart from four limbs...the answer lies in the mind, down through time we see that humans evolved to survive different climate,goegraphical hardships and predators but in order to over come those predators its our brains that sets us apart from the rest of the animal kingdom, we do not have the physical attributes that Lions have nor the power that bears have or even the venom of a snake but we have mimicked them...we use cutting tools like the teeth of a big cat..we use hammers like a blow from the kick from a horse..and we use poised darts to kill or take down prey just as snakes and spiders do with their fangs...In some forms of martial arts animals play a big part in the make up of the style i.e. Thai and Kung Fu all have moves that are mimicked from animals...so matial arts was born from the need to survive we copied what the animals did and used it to our advantage in times of war, socially etc. This eventually developed into what we now know today as Martial Arts

Roper

I agree with Red raven. But I'd also like to add that it's to get chicks, hot chicks who dig on a man who can kick another mans ass. Seriously, lions have to fight for the right to sire the cubs of the lionesses, surely it was the same for mankind in prehistoric times. Some club wielding pretender would wander near your cave sniffing out your harem. You'd go into full on alpha male mode and go neanderthal on him. The winner gets to have a nice warm cave and lie with the female(s). After that, bow to your mammoth skin flag hanging on the cave wall, do your club-swing-do kata to cool down, and you're done.

RedRaven

Roper wrote:

I agree with Red raven. But I'd also like to add that it's to get chicks, hot chicks who dig on a man who can kick another mans ass. Seriously, lions have to fight for the right to sire the cubs of the lionesses, surely it was the same for mankind in prehistoric times. Some club wielding pretender would wander near your cave sniffing out your harem. You'd go into full on alpha male mode and go neanderthal on him. The winner gets to have a nice warm cave and lie with the female(s). After that, bow to your mammoth skin flag hanging on the cave wall, do your club-swing-do kata to cool down, and you're done.

Yes indeed Roper the sexual drive behind the violent side of Humans is a big factor ,again its all about survival. If you sire strong children then in turn youre Clan becomes stronger resulting in survival of the fit. But hell yeah its all about the hot chick...aketa aketa...hot 70s playboy chicks in skimpy fur bikinis....HHHHMMMM AAAGGGHHH...HOMER STYLE without the donuts!!!:):)

Roper

That's it, I'm getting my missus to get into her leopard print bikini tonight! Like Raquel Welsh in the 1 million years BC film.

Then I'm going to go out, pick a random male, and beat the crap out of him. Then arrive home bloodied with the thrill of battle still coursing through my veins, and claim my bounty!!
I'll post pictures tomorrow!

RedRaven

Roper wrote:

That's it, I'm getting my missus to get into her leopard print bikini tonight! Like Raquel Welsh in the 1 million years BC film.

Then I'm going to go out, pick a random male, and beat the crap out of him. Then arrive home bloodied with the thrill of battle still coursing through my veins, and claim my bounty!!
I'll post pictures tomorrow!

Just show me his head...and the photos of the missus in the hotness that is.....Leopard skin Mania!!!!

pearsquasher

I'll take Japanese Martial Arts seeing as i study one:

From ancient history -> 1700's

- 100's of years of wars between massive armies
- a society that had a strong learning tradtion and liked to systemise and log things
- a warrior caste system that promoted dicipline, honour and spiritual strength - developed from it being very dense agricutural society and bolstered by warriorship
- an isolated society without serious influence form outside
- a society that held senior/junior realtionships in high regard

So, even though similar battles would have happened in Europe, systemisation and evolution of fighting didn't happen on the same scale.
Actaully, ? Battles in Japan could reach 80,000 strong where in Europe they were maybe 10,000 max. The logistics to faciltate this requires the kind of dicipline evolved in Japan and i reckon is important in tracking martial arts history.

You get sophisticated battlefield arts that evolved as they got passed through the generations and incorporated new technologies along the way. Not all soliders would learn all levels of the art, but all levels would be passed down and kept alive.

Pre industrial peacetime - 1700's - 1900
No more major battles but still a large armed warrior population. Battlefield arts are largely un-needed now especially as modern warfare technology negates close quarters combat. For the now still sword-wearing but no longer battle-ready warrior there begins the enmergence of self-dicipline sword arts like kendo and iai-do as well as unarmoured and unarmed diciplines....we get the emergence of jujutsu for unarmoured fighting. Schools start to die out but the stronger ones are sustained through patronage and a deep sense of tradtion.

Early 20th century:

With modernisation comes a re-focus on maintaining tradtions but now sporting and self-dicpline ideas come into it as Japan tries to find its place in the new world. Karate, Kendo and Judo are heavily promoted in the education system. There are still lineage-based schools but the popularity of non-lineage ones like these overshadows them.


Post-WW2:
- martial arts banned by the US occupying force. When lifted, the West discovers the popular arts of karate, kendo and judo and they become international. The older, battlefield schools are seen as too militaristic and not explored much.

Late 20th century:
- massive international popluarity in sports arts like karate, juod and kendo. Other countries start exporting their arts too... Korea, Thailand, Phillipenes etc as the market opens up. The emergence of mass entertainment stimulates creation of tournaments such as pride and k1. The relationship to battlefied fighting is lost. With freedom and ease of information the worlds special forces are savvy with the older martial combat diciplines as well while the ordinary populaion indulge in combat sports and self-defence arts.

My idea on the future of the evolution:
- because of information age, the arts will stay alive. Entertainment factors will probably keep the sports arts around. Increasing terrorism and reduction of world resources leading to increasingly marginalised society will probably keep the need for real combat arts alive too. Tradtional yet evolving martial arts, ones that have kept up with the times since they were used in the hieght of the warring periods, will probably continue to flourish as their inherent adaptive nature has always allowed them to do. These, for me, are the only martial arts to study - anything else is just an "evolutionarily dead-end".

paddyc

great apes fighting usually ends up with the winner on top beating the head and chest of his opponent kinda like a ground and pound you see in UFC today.

.... so many slags... so little time...

Roper

Interesting stuff perasquasher, I'd pretty much agree with your prediction too...



But right now I can't concentrate, I'm too busy thinking about my home. Are there other males circling around now? Casting their eyes on my warm house, looking at my son as a potential threat? Looking at my wife? Smelling my scent on the place? Dangit I gotta go home and protect what I've got. If my boss gets in the way, I'll go through him pro-magna style too. Damn I love the feeling of impending combat! Those pretenders will not lie with my woman tonight! :mad:
If I can stop my hands from shaking afterwards Red Raven I'll post photos tomorrow, there's no chance of getting them before...

Clive

All about the sex.

Cabelo

I most certainly am not young man...

Smee is proud to come from a martial art with utterly confused but purely predictable lineage

Roper

myanmar wrote:

Isn't it true that all girls that do Martial arts or play rugby are .....well....ehhh....are mad for it?

Well my wife is a hottie in the....... oh dammit I meant to say that my wife is a martial artist and........ actually no, never mind.

Looks like it's divorce again for me...

Cabelo

Oh Roper, will he ever learn?

*cue theme music*

roo1981

Most likely invented to crack heads i believe...check out 2001: A Space Odyssey...the bit where the apes figure out how to use the bones comes to mind...once the apes figured out how to use objects to their advangage they would have been forced to change their concept of fighting (which, no doubt would have previously involved a lot of biting, tree breaking etc...) to solve disputes, after a few generations, thered no doubt have been a few apes who would be masters at cracking others open with sticks and stones...and as with all skills, it would probably have been passed down to a few chosen others (group heirachy would have developed hunters, warriors, list goes on)...eventually developing different styles/skillsets etc based on the same idea...forming the concept of MA...

Once the concept is there, it develops. So you can get a general idea of how the MA became regionalized into different styles to suit purpose, ie fighting in paddyfields in China/Japan would have been different to fighting in a bog in Ireland, advanced weaponry enters the fray,and so on and so on it just grows...

Im rambling, to make a long story short, blame the monkeys!

On another note, does anyone have any idea what is the oldest known set style of MA is? For instance, the ancient Greeks/Romans would have had wrestling, this would have been my bet...but i may be wrong...

Dyr

check out 2001: A Space Odyssey...the bit where the apes figure out how to use the bones comes to mind...once the apes figured out how to use objects to their advangage they would have been forced to change their concept of fighting (which, no doubt would have previously involved a lot of biting, tree breaking etc...) to solve disputes, after a few generations, thered no doubt have been a few apes who would be masters at cracking others open with sticks and stones...

like this?

http://dogbrothersvideo.com/power.wmv
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roo1981

Ha ha priceless Bam...my thoughts exactly!

kenpo_dave

I didnt read all the posts so this might have been said, but ill say it again
Roper the "art" only goes out the window if u dont do the complete training for ur style - physical and mental. If u do the complete training then u will be able to use the style properly. fighting is not just pommeling someone - thats bad fighting. Ive never had and problems using kenpo. Just needed to remain focused.

Cabelo

That's a very different debate and one we've seen, by the number of Kenpoista who showed up for the meet, swing away from the artistic side. A long time ago I'd have said you're right but coming from a very artistic MA myself I'd have to disagree. The simple effectiveness of directness negates a lot of the "art" of some MAs. Does that make them less of a Martial Art? I think not, as long as they help a person learn to fight more effectively, they are a perfect MA.