Do We Have any Come Back Here?

JuliusFranco

Hi

Moved in to a rented place about a month ago. It all started off hunky dory but then a 3 things have come up:

- There was an electric shower in the bathroom when we moved in. It broke down over the weekend. There is also a shower connected to the taps with no pressure and you need to heat it from the immersion. When I told the landlord about it he said "sure you can use the other one".

- There's a drain beside the back door into which the kitchen sink and dishwasher run into. It's blocked out side somewhere, flooding the area outside the back door. It's also beginning to smell bad now.

- Most of the windows were painted shut and there's a latch missing of one of the ones that do open. At first, the landlord said he'd open them all for us and fix the latch. When I rang him about it yesterday he said something like "it's an old house - you won't get the windows open - get over it". It's a but nasty not been able to open up a bathroom window and sitting room window (we all smoke!)

These 3 things are getting pretty annoying. Is it the landlords responsibility to rectify these problems? What can we do if he doesn't? Our lease agreement is the standard Dublin Solicitors Bar Association (DSBA) one.

Would really appreciate some advice!

Thanks
A

Beruthiel

I'd withhold the rent till he fixes the shower

Sleipnir

Windows painted shut is leathal in a fire, never mind the inconvenience of not being able to open one while showering.

Doesn't matter what's on the lease, you could say that the shower not working could point to a poor maintenance record ,which is a potential hazard, the windows are certainly a hazard.

The blocked drain would fall under health & safety so, again, it's a hazard really.

Is he a registered landlord? I would contact Threshold to see if they have any advice.

MorningStar

JuliusFranco wrote:

Hi

Moved in to a rented place about a month ago. It all started off hunky dory but then a 3 things have come up:

- There was an electric shower in the bathroom when we moved in. It broke down over the weekend. There is also a shower connected to the taps with no pressure and you need to heat it from the immersion. When I told the landlord about it he said "sure you can use the other one".

Unless it specifies in the lease an electirc shower he doesn't need to fix it unless it is actually dangerous. If you owned and lived in a house you wouldn't nesserily run out and fix it immediately. If you mean the weekend just gone you are over reacting

JuliusFranco wrote:

- There's a drain beside the back door into which the kitchen sink and dishwasher run into. It's blocked out side somewhere, flooding the area outside the back door. It's also beginning to smell bad now.

Have you even checked the drain outside? You probably have but I hada tennant friend going mental that the sink was over flowing. I ran up and there were tea bags in the plug hole and the tap was bit stiff to close because she opened it all the way. THe drain is most likely block by content from the sink.

JuliusFranco wrote:

- Most of the windows were painted shut and there's a latch missing of one of the ones that do open. At first, the landlord said he'd open them all for us and fix the latch. When I rang him about it yesterday he said something like "it's an old house - you won't get the windows open - get over it". It's a but nasty not been able to open up a bathroom window and sitting room window (we all smoke!)

The windows believe it or not do not need to open in an average rental house. Bedrooms do need ventilation by law but that does not mean the ability to open the window

JuliusFranco wrote:

These 3 things are getting pretty annoying. Is it the landlords responsibility to rectify these problems? What can we do if he doesn't? Our lease agreement is the standard Dublin Solicitors Bar Association (DSBA) one.

Would really appreciate some advice!

Thanks
A

I don't think your issues are really a big deal. You must of noticed the vague standard of the property before renting. You have a responsibility as a tenant to keep the place clean too which might be the reason the drain blocked.
Either way I doubt the landlord is thinking you are a prize tennant as you don't think he is a prize landlord. You maybe better moving at this rate. I am a landlord and I am looking at it from my point of view but legally I don't think you have anything to stand on.

JuliusFranco

thanks for the reply MorningStar
typical landlord response!
but good to hear it from your point of view.

MorningStar wrote:

Unless it specifies in the lease an electric shower he doesn't need to fix it unless it is actually dangerous. If you owned and lived in a house you wouldn't nesserily run out and fix it immediately. If you mean the weekend just gone you are over reacting.

will check the lease itinerary out. but when we looked at the house there was an shower working albeit an oldish one. after just over 3 weeks of living there, it's not working. i obviously don't mind if he can't fix it immediately, but it's the suggestion that he won't fix it at all that bothers me.

MorningStar wrote:

Have you even checked the drain outside? You probably have but I hada tennant friend going mental that the sink was over flowing. I ran up and there were tea bags in the plug hole and the tap was bit stiff to close because she opened it all the way. THe drain is most likely block by content from the sink. .

most likely after 3 weeks? considering that we use a compost maker for recycling degradable stuff? and we use a dishwasher? obviously we've checked the drain ourselves and tried unblocking it (rods, caustic soda etc). It's pretty obvious that it's more than friggin teabags!

MorningStar wrote:

The windows believe it or not do not need to open in an average rental house. Bedrooms do need ventilation by law but that does not mean the ability to open the window.

point taken. we should have checked this out when we looked at the house.

MorningStar wrote:

I don't think your issues are really a big deal. You must of noticed the vague standard of the property before renting. You have a responsibility as a tenant to keep the place clean too which might be the reason the drain blocked.

we keep the house spotless. i do not like the automatic assumption that we live like pigs!

apart from these 3 things i think the house is fantastic. i just hope they are just teething problems and once they're sorted then we won't ever have to bother him again.

we were in our previous home for 7 years and we only saw the landlord a couple a times a year. i have no desire to call him about every little thing but these niggly issues but ones that can be easily sorted.

we did not move into his house to fix it up his drains and shower.

as far as i am concerned he has two ways of dealing with this. he can be a gentleman or a cowboy. our last landlord was pretty much the former. the house was kept grand (we even helped him redecorate) and his rent was never a day late.
if this new fella chooses the latter he'd better hope that we have a legal recourse. he won't like our illegal one.

Victor

MorningStar wrote:

Unless it specifies in the lease an electirc shower he doesn't need to fix it unless it is actually dangerous. If you owned and lived in a house you wouldn't nesserily run out and fix it immediately. If you mean the weekend just gone you are over reacting

The property was rented on the basis of there being an electric shower. What next, are you going to remove the curtains, lamp shades and mirrors because they aren't specified either? Taking the bulbs from the lights?

The windows believe it or not do not need to open in an average rental house. Bedrooms do need ventilation by law but that does not mean the ability to open the window

Actually, I think you will find the Fire Officer thinks differently.

Either way I doubt the landlord is thinking you are a prize tennant as you don't think he is a prize landlord.

Wrong side of the bed?

MorningStar

Victor wrote:

The property was rented on the basis of there being an electric shower.

It is considered a luxury item therefore not an instant fix item was my point. I would fix it but I wouldn't rush if there was an alternative. There is no requirement to do so legally unless it is dangerous.

Victor wrote:

What next, are you going to remove the curtains, lamp shades and mirrors because they aren't specified either? Taking the bulbs from the lights?

Covered by the basic standards such as running water etc... AFAIK

Victor wrote:

Actually, I think you will find the Fire Officer thinks differently.
Wrong side of the bed?

No I know this for fact as I have property where the windows don't all open and have had it inspected. All windows don't need to open as I was told by the inspector as I asked! Ventilation in bedrooms is a lot more important.

JuliusFranco wrote:

if this new fella chooses the latter he'd better hope that we have a legal recourse. he won't like our illegal one.

It's nice to know that you have tried to be reasonable thus far and are clean. If you aren't happy with the service of your landlord move to suggest you will now do something illegal if he doesn't do what you say sounds like the actions of a scumbag. Would you smash up or steal from a shop if you didn't like their service? No difference! A service is provided don't like it bring your custom elsewhere.

Culchie

MorningStar wrote:

It is considered a luxury item therefore not an instant fix item was my point. I would fix it but I wouldn't rush if there was an alternative. There is no requirement to do so legally unless it is dangerous.

Covered by the basic standards such as running water etc... AFAIK

No I know this for fact as I have property where the windows don't all open and have had it inspected. All windows don't need to open as I was told by the inspector as I asked! Ventilation in bedrooms is a lot more important.

It's nice to know that you have tried to be reasonable thus far and are clean. If you aren't happy with the service of your landlord move to suggest you will now do something illegal if he doesn't do what you say sounds like the actions of a scumbag. Would you smash up or steal from a shop if you didn't like their service? No difference! A service is provided don't like it bring your custom elsewhere.

Wow !

Morning Star, I too am a Landlord and have been for 7 years, with 3 seperate couples/young families as tenants. Never had to look for tenants as word of mouth and referrals from previous tenants has always brought me new tenants when they moved on (all 3 times, the people were buiilding their own houses)

Never had one day of trouble, tenants never been late with rent.

The secret is if you treat tenants well, they will look after your property well.

Sounds like Julius Franco is a good tenant to me, sounds you are a 'shyster' landlord, always looking for the short corner.


Oh yea, and like an Electric Shower is a "luxury" !! :rolleyes:

MorningStar

Culchie wrote:

The secret is if you treat tenants well, they will look after your property well.

Sounds like Julius Franco is a good tenant to me, sounds you are a 'shyster' landlord, always looking for the short corner.


Oh yea, and like an Electric Shower is a "luxury" !! :rolleyes:

I own differnt types of property for different standards. I can assure you and instant electric shower is a luxury! Julius does sound like a nice tenant except he suggests illegal actions if he doesn't get it his way. Not a good sign, it may be bravado which he is welcome to defend.
Your 7 years does not mean you understand the market at all levels I have experinece with good and bad tennats if you only experienced the good then you remain lucky. With only 3 lettings! When you rent out more property more times I take your "experience". Your amazing "secret" doesn't hold true you just don't know that because you only rolled the dice 3 times. I gather from your name and description of the people you rent to you aren't dealing with similar tenants as me. You have been lucky nothing more and to attack somebody for stating the correct legal status and the other side of the coin is a bit pathetic imho.

Culchie

MorningStar wrote:

I own differnt types of property for different standards. I can assure you and instant electric shower is a luxury! Julius does sound like a nice tenant except he suggests illegal actions if he doesn't get it his way. Not a good sign, it may be bravado which he is welcome to defend.
Your 7 years does not mean you understand the market at all levels I have experinece with good and bad tennats if you only experienced the good then you remain lucky. With only 3 lettings! When you rent out more property more times I take your "experience". Your amazing "secret" doesn't hold true you just don't know that because you only rolled the dice 3 times. I gather from your name and description of the people you rent to you aren't dealing with similar tenants as me. You have been lucky nothing more and to attack somebody for stating the correct legal status and the other side of the coin is a bit pathetic imho.

Attack ?

lol, you are sensitive as well.

Maybe I vet my tenants better than you in the first place?

Regardless .... If an electric shower is a luxury, we're on different wavelengths completely anyway. If an electric shower is not working then it's either a cold shower or a broken shower. Fixing it "When I get a chance" or whatever terminology you used is bound to get your tenants rubbed up the wrong way.

I didn't just magically become a landlord either, I did rent the odd house or two myself as well believe it or not, and always had a healthy rapport with my landlords.

They seemed to have a far better attitude to tenants than you have though.

s_gr

MorningStar wrote:

Unless it specifies in the lease an electirc shower he doesn't need to fix it unless it is actually dangerous. If you owned and lived in a house you wouldn't nesserily run out and fix it immediately. If you mean the weekend just gone you are over reacting

Have you even checked the drain outside? You probably have but I hada tennant friend going mental that the sink was over flowing. I ran up and there were tea bags in the plug hole and the tap was bit stiff to close because she opened it all the way. THe drain is most likely block by content from the sink.

The windows believe it or not do not need to open in an average rental house. Bedrooms do need ventilation by law but that does not mean the ability to open the window


I don't think your issues are really a big deal. You must of noticed the vague standard of the property before renting. You have a responsibility as a tenant to keep the place clean too which might be the reason the drain blocked.
Either way I doubt the landlord is thinking you are a prize tennant as you don't think he is a prize landlord. You maybe better moving at this rate. I am a landlord and I am looking at it from my point of view but legally I don't think you have anything to stand on.

Well its guys like you who give landlords a bad name!!!!

mathie

MorningStar wrote:

You have a responsibility as a tenant to keep the place clean too which might be the reason the drain blocked.

Out of curiosity does a tenant have to keep a rented accomodation clean?
M

ambro25

mathie wrote:

Out of curiosity does a tenant have to keep a rented accomodation clean?
M

Depends on two things, really:

(i) what the lease stipulates (which can stretch to such things as cleaning exterior of house incl. front/back garden maintenance, having windows washed so many times a years, this/that/the other...)

(ii) whether the tenant likes to live in a clean environment (duh! -one, this)

the_syco

The eletcric show being a luxury: yes and no. If its an addition to a bath (which already has two taps), it may be seen as a luxury, as the basic bath is already there. But, if its the only shower unit there (standalone, no bath), I don't see it as a luxury. In the past, I've been in a few places. In most of those places, an electric shower is not a luxury, as without it, there would be nothing.

A non-working shower may mean only cold water dripping out of it, or it may mean no water at all. It could also mean that a wire inside may have melted its casing, and then can be pretty dangerous.

OP: if the shower is the only one there (and there is no bath), then you need it to clean yourself. If, however, there's a bath there, you may have to make do.

Oh, and I'm not a landlord, this is just my experience from living as a tenant in a few places.

JuliusFranco

now MorningStar, say you bought a car with a radio / cd player.
Say you went around the following day to pick it up and found that the cd player stoped working. Would you be happy to just use the tape deck instead? An not bother the garrage cos it's a luxuary?

MorningStar wrote:

! Julius does sound like a nice tenant except he suggests illegal actions if he doesn't get it his way. Not a good sign, it may be bravado which he is welcome to defend.

mainly bravado but if he makes life difficult for us, we can make it difficult for him. not paying rent seems to be the only thing cowboys understand.
if he respects us, we'll respect him. happy tennents will take pride of their home and look after it and visa versa.

BC

MorningStar wrote:

Unless it specifies in the lease an electirc shower he doesn't need to fix it unless it is actually dangerous.

Not true according to Threshold. "The landlord is obliged to carry out repairs except where damage beyond normal wear and tear has been caused by the tenant. "

Although as there is the availability of another shower I agree that the landlord should be given a reasonable amount of time to fix it (days not weeks).

MorningStar

JuliusFranco wrote:

now MorningStar, say you bought a car with a radio / cd player.
Say you went around the following day to pick it up the following day and found that the cd player stoped working. Would you be happy to just use the tape deck instead? An not bother the garrage cos it's a luxuary?

You haven't bought a car radio you have rented a property and the service level of landlord is part of that. Renting is a service not a purcahse, not happy with the service don't go to that person for the service. Really simple.

JuliusFranco wrote:

mainly bravado but if he makes life difficult for us, we can make it difficult for him. not paying rent seems to be the only thing cowboys understand.
if he respects us, we'll respect him. happy tennents will take pride of their home and look after it and visa versa.

He is not making life difficult for you , you are not happy with his service so don't be his customer. Seeing as you have never dealt with a landlord cowboy how do you know what will work best?
If it's a rat race you don't have to grow a tail.
Look at it this way you have blocked the drain, broken a shower and complined about the widows not opening since you moved in. It's just a point of view.

the_syco wrote:

The eletcric show being a luxury: yes and no. If its an addition to a bath (which already has two taps), it may be seen as a luxury, as the basic bath is already there. But, if its the only shower unit there (standalone, no bath), I don't see it as a luxury. In the past, I've been in a few places. In most of those places, an electric shower is not a luxury, as without it, there would be nothing.

The original post definitely suggests there is a bath which is what I am assuming. Plus the additional mention of emersion requirement. If it was the only method to clean yourself it is not luxury. Just to clarify

mathie wrote:

Out of curiosity does a tenant have to keep a rented accomodation clean?

Yes and as mentioned you may have additional requirement specified. Unlike what was said your level of cleanleness is not choice if renting. It would need to be pretty bad to be an issue.

s_gr wrote:

Well its guys like you who give landlords a bad name!!!!

And you are the type of person who doesn't think from any other view point but their own. Did I ever say I wouldn't fix the shower or drain? Do you know how much is costs to fix a sash window? I answered the requirements of the landlord on his complaints and asked questions.
The shower is only broken a day or two and there appears to be an alternative. The drain should be sorted after a day or two but I don't know how long it has been as is. If there is a window upstairs that opens the windows are fine legally.
I appologise for suggesting he was not clean and nothing else.

ambro25

MorningStar wrote:

Unlike 'what was said', your level of cleanliness is not a choice if renting.

I hope you weren't inferring that I posted that, did you?

...Not unless you want yet another pointless alphanumerical brawl

MorningStar

ambro25 wrote:

I hope you weren't inferring that I posted that, did you?

...Not unless you want yet another pointless alphanumerical brawl

You said it not me!
I wouldn't call what you do brawling more like annoying barking from a yorkshire terrier

ambro25

says he, in a reverberating voice echoing down the length of his rectum

I said cleanliness depends on two things, not "depends on one or the other of two things" :rolleyes:

JuliusFranco

wow! i didn't expect this thread to go like this!

anyway, i'd like to thank MorningStar, his thoughts certainly gave us an insight into what we could have been up against and what the landlord's thinking could have been. His input cetainly helped us come to an agreement!

The drain got really bad the last day or two. The landlord saw it for the first time last night. I think he thought we were exaggerating but good auld DynoRod came around this morning and fixed it. The blockage was caused by a hugh amount of grease! Presumably from frying pans etc. from previous (generations) of tennants.

The windows unfortunatly are that way to stay. Some windows upstairs do open so legally there's ventilation and well, let's hope there's no fire! (One of the girls in the house forced the bathroom one open - I spent half an hour at it to no avail!).

And his gonna replace the shower, which we agreed was fair. It might take a couple of days which is fine as long as it gets fixed soon.

So that's that hopefully. Thanks to all for your input!
A

MorningStar

JuliusFranco wrote:

wow! i didn't expect this thread to go like this!

anyway, i'd like to thank MorningStar, his thoughts certainly gave us an insight into what we could have been up against and what the landlord's thinking could have been. His input cetainly helped us come to an agreement!
!
A

Jesus I said I would have fixed the things! You wouldn't have been up against anything with me. As you said he thought you were exagerating about the drain which is an easy mistake. His initial response about the shower might just have been about the immediate problem. The windows on an old house can be extremely expensive to fix.
At some point people mixed up what you can get away with and what I would do. I didn't defend any actions other than slow response.

The ventalation has to be seperate from the windows. Either in the wall or the window itself.

If anybody thinks I am the bad landlord type you have no idea what they bad ones are like. Try some dirty tactics with them any you could end up very sorry.

Glad to hear your problems are sorted but considering your landlord was reaonable the first assumption of most was as a landlord he'd be a sh*t says a lot! It can be common for a tenant to explode the first time the mention anything to the landlord.