Latest time to feed a pup at night?

Goffie

Hi all
Our 10 week old Westie Jack is thriving but I just wanted to check something about feeding times.
We've been feeding him 4 times a day, maybe more as sometimes he's eat till he bursts and does a good impression of a dog expiring from hunger.
This week my husband is up at 6am as he's starts at 7.30am so he has the fun of cleaning the doggy poo.
He said it was unbelievable this morning, loads of it all over the place and the room stank.
He didn't have diarrohea, just loads of poo. My husband fed him then, but when I got up at 7.30am he was begging for more.
The last meal he had was about 9pm and he did go to the loo outside before he settled for the night.
Are we overfeeding him or was that too late for his last meal?
I'm taking him to the vet tomorrow for his jabs so hoping to get some guidance from him too, but your advice would be much appreciated as my husband was not amused as doesn't want to face such an amount of poo every morning this week!
Thanks a mil

FranknFurter

Westies, will eat and eat and eat and eat if you let them.
Hes 10 weeks old now, so you need to cut feeding times down to twice a day, same time every day and be strict about it.
Never forget, a puppy his age is relying on you, as would a baby, to teach him his limits.

Depending on whether you are giving him wet food or dry (i would highly recommend you start trying to get him on dry food as soon as you can, when hes hungry enough he will eat it, but moisten it a bit at first), he should be fed at the same time every day, no more than 3 small meals a day (bringing it down to 2 as he gets a bit older).

Say 9pm at night, feed him, give him 20 mins or so to digest, then bring him out to poop. Stay out there as long as you have to, when he does, praise him and give him a doggy treat and come back in immmediately so he knows that pooping means he gets a treat and can come back to the house. Do this once more before bedtime.


Do the same at say 4pm, and the same before you leave for work in the morning,
Even if it means changing your schedule a bit, it is worth it in the long run.

And be careful to 100% ignore the "starving doggy" routine, he cannot be allowed to dictate his mealtimes.

b

Sigma Force

Don't let him eat till he bursts, as even an adult dog will. Be very careful and measure the amount of food properly for his size breed and weight. If not done already get him on a dry food and a measuring cup and have him weighed at the vets, the packaging will give you a rough guide on the amount to feed him. Feeding him everytime he begs and he could end up with all sorts of problems.
Good idea to talk to the vet and get the measurements right.
My collie only requires two cup fulls of Burns a day and the smaller dog just under a cup full. The measuring cup stops you over feeding and also works out cheaper in the long run because your not wasting food.

peasant

By the by ...you're supposed to take him outside when he has to go ...otherwise he'll never learn. (and that doesn't just apply to daytime )

So don't feed him too much, not too late and make sure he poos before you go to bed.

Goffie

Thanks so much everyone - I think we must be overfeeding all right.
Got an appt with vet this evening and the vet nurse has assured me he'll be weighed and we can buy the Burns puppy food with a measuring cup so we get the amounts right.
Even tho his last small meal was 9pm last night and he pooed outside after, my husband was not amused to find so much poo to clean up this morning. Going to talk to vet about this as hubby is threatening to put him outside at night (!!). Relations are strained to say the least.
I've offered to get up at six to clean it up since he finds it so disgusting but he won't hear of that either.
I did warn him what hard work a puppy is and wanted to get an older rescue dog but, oh no, he wanted a puppy.
Don't get me wrong, he loves Jack, just very squeamish and irritable in the mornings.

peasant

*theoretically* this young fellow (just removed from his mother and siblings) should be sleeping next to your bed (not in it, unless so desired ) (you can move him to another room, once he has settled down a bit and is leakproof during the night)

*theoretically* you could put him in a comfy box or crate together with some nice blankets ...he would not soil that ...but try to get out and do his business somewhere else.

*theoretically* you would notice his distress and the commotion and take him outside to give him a chance to relieve himself (and housetrain him in the process)

*Practically* you prefer to clean up his mess in the morning. By this you're doing neither him nor yourself a favour. He doesn't get housetrained and you get left with a pile of stink. On top of it all you do cause him some distress ...believe it or not ...dogs don't actually LIKE having to relieve themselves where they eat and sleep.

So *actually* puppies are even more hard work than you initially thought

Goffie

Peasant
I'm not being funny but I am trying my best.
Took him to the vets, got him jabbed, microchipped, defleaed, wormed - the works. Vet says he's in great shape and not to worry. Took out petplan too.
I'm doing all I can.
Bought the Burns food and measuring cup and vet says it will produce less poo and be better for him. I trust this vet as he treated my cat for 10 years.
Jack is contented and happy and unfortunately i can't keep getting up in the night to let him out or I'll never stay awake in work.
He's a model of house-training when we're there and he's only 10 weeks old.
vet says as he gets older he'll be able to 'hold it' longer.
I 'll clean up all the s.hit he can deliver. Hubby can go jump.
Really feel inadequate now.

SuzyS1972

Burns is great for poo reduction
Give crate training a try if the OH is getting annoyed with it - I know what men are like

I can mail you links to some crate training material if you think it might help
With a pup this young you may have to get up once in the night or very very early but this should ease within a couple of weeks.

amerden

Goffie,

DON'T FEEL INADEQUATE.
After reading this and your previous post, I think your doing extremely well, It's lovely to see someone who really cares for their dog, shame it's not the norm in this country. Follow your Vet's advice and he is right, as Jack gets older he will hold it all night, also the change of food will help, give him time.

FranknFurter

amerden wrote:

Goffie,

DON'T FEEL INADEQUATE.
After reading this and your previous post, I think your doing extremely well, It's lovely to see someone who really cares for their dog, shame it's not the norm in this country. Follow your Vet's advice and he is right, as Jack gets older he will hold it all night, also the change of food will help, give him time.

exactly!

peasant

Geoffie

No need to feel inadequate ...you're trying hard and really doing your best.

All I was trying to say is, that if you don't want to clean poo in the morning, with a pup as young as yours, you might have to go out with him during the night for another while, until he gets older and able to "hold it" better.

Unfortunately a puppy this young IS hard work.

It is all well and good, him being "housetrained" while you're there ...but you're kinda skewing the learning curve for him, by not being there at night.

What is he to learn from this? It's not ok to poo and wee in the house during the day ...but its perfectly ok during the night?

By the by ...get himself to go out at night ...after all HE insisted on a pup

Goffie

Thanks, Suzy, Amerden and Frank for you very welcome support!
Good to hear I'm not failing miserably in the best dog owner stakes!

Peasant - Jack pees and poos to his heart's content during the day when I'm out for a few hours at a time at work - always by the door on the paper so he knows that's the direction he should be heading. I check all this with the vet and he said it was fine to leave him for periods alone and that he seemed perfectly relaxed with me and not in the least stressed.
If it will satisfy you I got up at 5am to let him out this morning (didnt manage to get back to sleep after).
I KNOW its going to be hard work for the next year or so but is it really going to traumatise Jack if I don't get up during the night every night to let him out??
Surely nobody is that perfect in house training their dog? Dog owners I've spoken to with perfectly well adjusted dogs did it this way. We tried a crate and he hated it so much I prefer to clean up a ton of poo rather than imprison him all night for my convenience. Now the crate is his little house, his safe place where he's fed, sleeps and play fights with his cuddly toy. The door is always open and he loves it. If he hears a loud noise or something scres him he heads straight for it.

I had a talk with my husband and laid down a few hard facts re poo cleaning.
If we're willing to do it how can it hurt Jack?

Ok so maybe his 'learning curve ' is skewed but what in life is perfect? Let's be realistic here. I do have to work to keep him in the comfort he's rapidy getting accustomed to. I race him as as often as I can during the day to check on him, play with him, clean up, feed him etc.

Peasant, please give me a break. One minute you say I'm doing well and trying my best then you snatch that crumb of praise away. What do you want, blood? if others can be generous enough to encourage me rather than pick holes in what I'm doing, why can't you?

amerden

Goffie,
If you did get up for a few nights to accommodate Jack you may give him the idea that this was the norm, hence he will expect this every night and his system will be trained to this, Westies learn times very very quickly (two Westies from pups to old age), I feel it would be harder for him then to hold it until it is the normal time for you to get up, he is still very young, be patient.
I agree with you about the prison, sorry crate, after all as you say its his home now as well as yours. I don't think your hard work will extend for the next year or so, I think it will be much shorter that that. Stick with it, be firm, patient, kind and most of all enjoy the latest member of your family and remember no family member is perfect all the time.

Sigma Force

I know it's hard getting up at night to let the pup out but that must be expected by every dog owner when they get a puppy. Puppies might be cute and cuddly but they are also very hard work.
The getting up at night is tough going so I do sympathise, I was up two to three times in the night with one of my dogs when she was a pup and it took a long time to house train her.
Remember puppies bladders don't mature until they are about 8 months old so they cannot be expected to learn to be well trained if their wee bladders simply can't hold it, of course each dog is individual and some dogs manage to control their we and poop a lot quicker than others.
It's tough going but if you stick to the routine you yourself will get used to getting up and before you know it you will be waking up to let him out and he will be still asleep
As people say to new mums it does get better with time and it's well worth it in the end.
The new dog food will take a while you will see a difference within a week or two with the poop.
He's still a very small baby bless him.
You're doing all you can for him so he'll be grand

peasant

Peasant, please give me a break. One minute you say I'm doing well and trying my best then you snatch that crumb of praise away. What do you want, blood? if others can be generous enough to encourage me rather than pick holes in what I'm doing, why can't you?

Blood is not needed ...

Why do expect praise for only doing things half right?

You were lucky to get the little praise you got in the first place ...I'm a grumpy old fart.

Encouragement for heading along the right path is one thing ... praise is something completely different ...only to be awarded at the finish ...and then only for exceptional achievements

The old carrot and stick thing, you know.

Goffie

Well, peasant, I guess we'll leave it there.
I don't feel it's necessary for you to be quite so heavy-handed with me and then add a smilie..a tad hypocritcal.
I'd hate to be in your class.
Oh don't worry, I won't be back to look for more advice. The burned child fears the fire.
So i'm off this board.
Thanks to everyone else who helped me in my hunt for Jack, gave great advice and encouragement (never praise as I'm not exceptional, and never said I was, jusk asked for some direction).
I'll go on loving and caring for Jack and wish you all as much joy with your animals.
Cheers
Goffie

peasant

Well, peasant, I guess we'll leave it there.
I don't feel it's necessary for you to be quite so heavy-handed with me and then add a smilie..a tad hypocritcal.
I'd hate to be in your class.
Oh don't worry, I won't be back to look for more advice. The burned child fears the fire.
So i'm off this board.
Thanks to everyone else who helped me in my hunt for Jack, gave great advice and encouragement (never praise as I'm not exceptional, and never said I was, jusk asked for some direction).
I'll go on loving and caring for Jack and wish you all as much joy with your animals.
Cheers
Goffie

Heavy handed ?

You haven’t seen me heavy handed yet …

Facts:
You have a little puppy and you don’t know what to do with it, or how to do it properly. But you’re not worried about that …you worry about the amount of **** you find in your kitchen in the morning.

You take your pup to the vet to get it vaccinated and wormed and think that this is a great achievement, a measurement of your devotion to lickle Jack and worthy of our recognition. It’s basic puppy care 101 …nothing special.

You got told by several people that in order to train the little pup properly and not to cause it distress (by soiling its own private space during the night) you have to take it outside during the night …could you be bothered?

You fail to recognise your responsibility for this little being on all fronts, instead you’re looking for quick fixes (less food / different food / different feeding times) to avoid having to deal with the issues and make your life as easy as possible.

And now, confronted with the truth you go into a self righteous sulk, poor little hurt creature that you are and make yourself out to be the “victim”.

The only victim in this case is poor little Jack who is all on his own at night, frightened and excluded from his family, with no other choice but to piss and poo in and around his bed, because his “loving mummy” couldn’t be arsed to get out of bed to help him relieve himself outside.

You took on the responsibilty for a living, breathing, feeling being …grow up …be responsible …just put your poor little self into the background for once.

Jeeeez ….what will you do if you ever have children?

Goffie

I won't justify this personal attack with a reply - no, I'm not sulking, just moving to a different board where this kind of personal bashing is not tolerated.

I'll leave it to your peers to judge if your opinion of me is justified.

Try reading my posts again to see whether I'm an irresponsible person who wants a dog as an accessory.

Oh well, guess I just pushed your button. Won't step in your way again.

peasant

Ok ...done as I was told, read your posts again. Here are some excerpts:

it was unbelievable this morning, loads of it all over the place and the room stank

doesn't want to face such an amount of poo every morning

hubby is threatening to put him outside at night (!!). Relations are strained to say the least.

unfortunately i can't keep getting up in the night to let him out or I'll never stay awake in work.

Jack pees and poos to his heart's content during the day when I'm out for a few hours at a time at work - always by the door on the paper so he knows that's the direction he should be heading That's not housetraining, by the way

is it really going to traumatise Jack if I don't get up during the night every night to let him out??
Surely nobody is that perfect in house training their dog?

Ok so maybe his 'learning curve ' is skewed but what in life is perfect? Let's be realistic here.

Now, please explain to me ...where in these posts is it actually about Jack and what is best for HIM ??...exactly ...nowhere. Instead it's all about you and your discomforts.

No, my dear, you are not "doing the best you can" ...you're doing all you're prepared to do, all that doesn't discommode you too much.

I have no idea why and what for you wanted a dog ...and I'm not going to speculate.

But it is plain for everybody to see that neither you nor your husband are fully prepared and willing to shoulder the responsibility of raising a small pup properly.

You are making half-hearted efforts, all the way proclaiming that you love your dog, expecting to be praised and encouraged for your half-heartedness.

In the interst of little Jack ...please try and forget about your hurt sensitivities just for a little while and try and do right by him.

Let him sleep in your room until he is a little older and more secure. Let him build up that bond and trust in you that way, rather than exile him to the kitchen ...he's only a baby

By letting him sleep in your room, you will also notice when he gets agitated and needs to go ...let him out ...train him properly.

Do things right from the very beginning and you will have a lot less problems in the future.

By excluding the little fellow, letting him sit in his own **** for half the night and a good part of the day as well ...you're raising yourself a little fellow that will always have hygiene issues plus an underdeveloped trust in you as well.

Up to now he has been taken care of perfectly by his mother ...he got ripped away from her to land with you and *edit in his eyes* you are neglecting him (in comparison to the care that he is used to) ...so why should he trust you?

Think about it ...pleeeease !!