Television Licence

Mick86

I had to go to the local Post Office last week to pay one of our plethora of stealth taxes. €155 to keep a television in my house and my hard earned Euros go to fund a station that I never even watch.

I wonder why somebody hasn't thought up a few nice little earners like Fridge Licences, Microwave Licences, Cooker Licences, Hoover Licences.

Why doesn't my employer just pay my wages to BIFFO altogether. It'll save me paying for a Money Licence some day.

Hagar

Didn't they just bring in a "fee" for disposing of these types of appliances.
Its very clever when you think about it.
It's actually restrospective taxation because the tax didn't exist when you bought the original appliance.

Elmo

It's actually restrospective taxation because the tax didn't exist when you bought the original appliance.

Yes but you will pay that on your old TV too.

Well you know you don't have to watch RTE but since their are very few company's doing what they do you can see why we pay for it.

It doesn't directly go to BIFFO anyway. (Everyone is going to think BIFFO is some sort of Irish Authority, though they might think that they think that down in Offaly).

It's not just about the TV, ya know. (lol)

I would agree with you if TV3 came even 50% close to what RTE provide but they don't.

BrianD

Mick86 wrote:

I had to go to the local Post Office last week to pay one of our plethora of stealth taxes. €155 to keep a television in my house and my hard earned Euros go to fund a station that I never even watch.

I wonder why somebody hasn't thought up a few nice little earners like Fridge Licences, Microwave Licences, Cooker Licences, Hoover Licences.

Why doesn't my employer just pay my wages to BIFFO altogether. It'll save me paying for a Money Licence some day.

Broadcasting is an important part of cultural expression so think of this contribution as part being an Irish citizen. It is ridiculous and plain stupid to compare the TV licence to a microwave licence etc. Cop on!

Ulsterman 1690

think of this contribution as part being an Irish citizen (sic)

:rolleyes: So are you suggesting that people with dual citizenship should buy TWO licences Perhaps US or Dutch citizens living in Ireland shouldnt have to pay any licence fee since niether of those countries has a TV licence

It is ridiculous and plain stupid to compare the TV licence to a microwave licence etc

Dont see whats so stupid about that. I mean microwave ovens operate by using radio frequency energy just like your TV does Come to think of it many countries have a "national dish" so I guess cooking in a microwave could be an important part of cultural expression as well

Elmo

Dont see whats so stupid about that. I mean microwave ovens operate by using radio frequency energy just like your TV does Come to think of it many countries have a "national dish" so I guess cooking in a microwave could be an important part of cultural expression as well

Damn I was going to say that :mad:

So are you suggesting that people with dual citizenship should buy TWO licences Perhaps US or Dutch citizens living in Ireland shouldnt have to pay any licence fee since niether of those countries has a TV licence

If they have a TV in that country then they should have what ever licence is needed. Just like Irish Citizens living in other countries have to pay a that countries licence.

Its not just about citizenship its about culture too.

Ulsterman 1690

If they have a TV in that country then they should have what ever licence is needed. Just like Irish Citizens living in other countries have to pay a that countries licence.

Yes I know all that but surely the sarcasm in my last post came across

(But then again I spent a few years working in Dublin and guess what.... )

zippo22

Mick86 wrote:

I had to go to the local Post Office last week to pay one of our plethora of stealth taxes. €155 to keep a television in my house and my hard earned Euros go to fund a station that I never even watch.

I wonder why somebody hasn't thought up a few nice little earners like Fridge Licences, Microwave Licences, Cooker Licences, Hoover Licence

The day can't be too far away when they introduce a tax for using a purse or a wallet (or trousers pockets). They've already made a start by taxing our Laser cards (and Visa etc.). I share your disgust about being forced (by threat of jail) to fork out €155 to RTE. I too never watch it. And I mean NEVER. It's the one household bill that I really RESENT paying.

Zynks

By collecting 155 per household in the country (or most of them anyhow), at least we should be entitled to watching programs without lengthy commercial interruptions (oh, and they sure make a bol***ks out of the timing also).

I was going to dare compare them to BBC, but I know I will be slaughtered for doing it. It can be argued that Ireland is a much smaller market, but RTE has 2 channels and 2 radio stations, while the BBC has at least 7 TV channels and god knows how many radio stations, plus one of the best websites on the net...and they don't interrupt their programs.

Bottom line, I would have no problems paying for a license to get a service remotely close to BBC standards, even if it was a single channel.

zippo22

Well said. RTE is an embarassment. Also as the licence fee (fixed penalty charge would be a better name for it.) is compulsory whether people want to use the service or not, you shouldn't have to fork out more money to Rupert Murdoch in order to receive their signal through a SKY dish. There are plenty of people in poor aerial reception areas.

Round Cable

I accept that home programming costs the same (if not more) to produce here than indigenous programming from the BBC in the UK (who rake in a lot more licence fee money than RTÉ), fair enough, RTÉ has advertising, so we should receive the same standard of service or better? Sadly we don't.

zippo22

Round Cable wrote:

I accept that home programming costs the same (if not more) to produce here than indigenous programming from the BBC in the UK (who rake in a lot more licence fee money than RTÉ), fair enough, RTÉ has advertising, so we should receive the same standard of service or better? Sadly we don't.

Regardless of the standard of service it is unjust that people are forced by threat of jail to pay money for a service they do not use nor do not want. If you possess a television at all, even if you only use it for to play DVD/VIDEOS etc. or watch sattelite tv, by law you have to pay €155 to RTE. It's like shopping in Tesco and having money added onto your bill at the checkout to be passed on to Dunnes Stores. (And If you refuse to pay it, having the Guards come to your house and cart you off to Mountjoy.)

Elmo

but RTE has 2 channels and 2 radio stations,

MMMM.

RTE Radio 1
RTE 2fm
and oh wait
RTE RNAG
RTE Lyric FM

that makes four. They also provide services different to Radio one on MW and they are doing something with 252 also.

They also provide some money to TG4 as well.

RTE do plan to have at least 4 new channels if DTT ever gets up and running. But then you would have to talk to the government about whats happening DTT.

Elmo

RTÉ has advertising, so we should receive the same standard of service or better?

The BBC have the Licence Fee, DVD sales, International Sales and other forms of income.

RTE have a tiny amount of international sales, a much smaller licence fee and they just make about the same on Advertising revenue.

They don't have adds on RnaG and preschool shows on the Den also have no adds. 2fm relies Advertising revenue and does not get any from the licence fee.

xstatic

You should be happy to know that your money is going to the likes of the plank who gets something like €500k, ryan, tuberdy etc. I think uncle gaybo gets 200k for nothing too.

And you won't have to face the great social shame of getting caught without one.

Round Cable

Elmo wrote:

The BBC have the Licence Fee, DVD sales, International Sales and other forms of income.

RTE have a tiny amount of international sales, a much smaller licence fee and they just make about the same on Advertising revenue.

They don't have adds on RnaG and preschool shows on the Den also have no adds. 2fm relies Advertising revenue and does not get any from the licence fee.

The BBC have more sources of income, no doubt , however you have 2 endurances with RTÉ; the licence fee and advertisments, while there is only one from the BBC. God forbid, RTÉ might actually make a programme of intenational standards, with DVD and international sales following, the only show to come close is Close Encounters With Keith Barry.

RTÉ don't have a much smaller fee, there's very little in it, I'm not sure if you're saying RTÉ has much less income from the licence fee, that's certainly true.

About your DTT comment, the transmittors belong to RTÉ and it is they who should be pushing the government forward, and on that note, why no FTV cards for digital satellite?

RnaG and The Den could show adverts all day and I wouldn't really mind. So no benefit here.

Telefís

As usual the old advertising line crops up again - the majority of public service broadcasters in Europe have dual funding with advertising and licence fee, with the BBC almost one unto itself.
It is a ridiculous notion to suggest that RTÉ follow the BBC as a model; the BBC operates on billions of pounds sterling accrued from licence fee as well as international sales as mentioned.
RTÉ has a model used by most psbs in Europe, it is not some sort of novelty set-up.
AND it is a model used in countries far bigger than Ireland - RTÉ operating in a tiny country desperately needs both sources of funding. Nothing has changed since 1960. The elimination of advertsing would mean a doubling in the licence fee, and even then RTÉ is hardly flush with funds even with the increased licence fee of late.

It also must be pointed out that RTÉ operates a very palatable and muted amount of advertising at the best of times - it is not a flash commerically driven station by any means. Most hour-long programmes will have but a single ad break in the middle in contrast to two or even three on the UK stations or TV3.
Rip-off Republic, on of the highest rating programmes this year - did you see a single ad-break during its 45 minute airing every week?
Likewise RTÉ will slash advertising if needs to be accomodate extraordinary events.

We have an acceptable arrangement in Ireland in my view - of course the licence fee is a tax, no doubt about it. But in a country as small as Ireland in my view it is well worth paying a licence fee to produce even a half-decent national broadcasting service - indeed I'd pay much more if required.
It simply is not possible to produce an acceptable standard in Ireland with advertising revenues alone.

zippo22

[QUOTE

We have an acceptable arrangement in Ireland in my view - of course the licence fee is a tax, no doubt about it. But in a country as small as Ireland in my view it is well worth paying a licence fee to produce even a half-decent national broadcasting service - indeed I'd pay much more if required.
It simply is not possible to produce an acceptable standard in Ireland with advertising revenues alone.[/QUOTE]


I agree with you it's a tax. An unfair tax. A tax on owning a television. Fair play to you if you reckon the license fee is well worth paying. But the fact is you have no choice in the matter. The licence fee/tax is as compulsory for you who avail of RTE's service as it is for me who does NOT. I get nothing from RTE and nor do I want anything, yet I am still threatened with jail unless I pay €155 per annum to an organisation for a service that I do not use. As for you being prepared to pay much more if required there's nothing to stop you paying the licence fee/tax twice.

Capt'n Midnight

cut to the chase
Is there any EU country where you don't need a TV license ?
And apart from the BBC is there any country where the state broadcaster doesn't have ads ?
Question - would anyone pay as much as they do in the UK for license fees to avoid the Ads ?


RTE are the only broadcaster I know that regularly drop the ads in their films at christmas. Or you can always get a PVR to avoid them. Course there are a few muppets they could drop like Pat and Gerry etc. that could save a few shilings.

The satellite channels usually stretch a 45 minute program to an hour

Telefís

And even with the 'muppets' (highly subjective as always) - these are also people that are pulling in so much advertising revenue for RTÉ, they pay for themselves, probably quite a few times over.
Especially the Late Late - it is funded by Renault to the tune of €1 million a year, while Pat gets paid about €350,000 for the show a year.
Each show makes at least €100,000 in advertising revenues. Multiplied by 35 shows in the season, that's around €4 million including the Toy Show and other small change kicking about.
So Pat's cut, as was Gay's and other high-profile people is a pittance compared to what their shows generate.
And people bluster and complain about RTÉ protecting this income and preventing it going to a rival private operator by paying its flagship people handsomely for what they do?!


What I mean by admitting to the licence fee being a tax is that yes, you must pay it regardless of whether you watch the service or not. It is a cultural tax as it were.
Just like your paying of PRSI goes to people who you've never met, and some of which sit on their arses all their lives while you work. Just as some taxes go heritage, or tourism, or incentives for the fishing industry even though you don't eat fish!
It's the same with most taxes.

At least if you don't watch televison at all, you're given the option of not paying.
Considering there's a tiny minority of people who neither watch or listen to RTÉ's television or radio services, it is an acceptable arrangement that a licence fee applies to all television users.
As it is you don't have to pay to listen to RTÉ Radio!

zippo22

[QUOTE


What I mean by admitting to the licence fee being a tax is that yes, you must pay it regardless of whether you watch the service or not. It is a cultural tax as it were.
[/QUOTE]

If it's a cultural tax then it should be paid whether you own a tv set or not. As it stands its a fixed penalty charge just for possessing a tv set. Just because the situation is the same in other European countries doesn't make it right. An unfair tax is unfair no matter where it is levied. (Another bugbear of mine is the €40 tax on Laser/Visa cards etc.. It's your money. You've already paid tax on it but yet they extort even more money from you for choosing a safe and convenient way of "carrying" your money. It's not much different from taxing us for carrying our money in a wallet or purse.)

Ulsterman 1690

Is there any EU country where you don't need a TV license ?

Portugal (abolished 1989)
Netherlands (Abolished 2000)
Greece (TV financed by an electricity tax )
Cyprus (South) as Greece
Spain
Luxembourg
Lichtenstein (Granted theyre not in the EU)
Beyond Europe Australia's licence fee was abolished in 1974 New Zealands in 1999 and most countries in the Americas never had one In Asia and Africa some countries have it and some dont

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licence

While every household in Japan with a television set is required to have a licence, there is no penalty for non-payment, and people are legally entitled to stop licensing inspectors from entering your house.

BTW during the early/mid 1980's I remember seeing a newspaper report that the Irish government were giving consideration to the idea of introducing a "Video licence". Dont know whatever became of this daft idea although at the time Videos were seen as rich mans toys so they probably reckoned people could afford it (Same Logic used by UK's chancoller Lamont in 1991 when he proposed a mobile phone tax :rolleyes: )

Telefís

It is important to point out that some, if not all of the countries above are probably funded directy by central government. It's not as if people are not still paying for a state television service.

The Forum on Broadcasting's recommendation to the Minister in 2000 was that the funding of the national broadcaster was most fairly and equitably done via a television licence.

Ulsterman 1690

Also on the pro licence fee side of the argument experience in countries where national broadcasters are financed directly by government grants has shown that these grants rarely keep pace with inflation and are often cut during economic downturns.

Defenders of the licence fee also claim that a grant system reduces broadcasters independence from government (he who pays the piper and all that) although given that in most countries with a licence fee its the government who set it I dont see how it makes much difference

lawhec

The Japanese government is now considering of going down the route of allowing NHK to take legal action against non-licence fee payers as 1.2 million people refused to pay it last year...

http://medianetwork.blogspot.com/2005_09_18_medianetwork_archive.html#112720805665385183

Incidently I don't believe NHK carries adverts themselves.

Also the licence fee in Switzerland is €289.50 - and their channels carry adverts too! :eek: To be fair though this covers two TV channels in German, French and Italian and several radio stations in each language along with a radio station in Romansch.

Elmo

New Zealands in 1999

They could be heading back to it, from what I know New Zealand's TV has suffered from not having it.