Harvey Norman - Plasma TV

Maxwell

Mods - I have posted this in the rip off republic thread, but I feel it is good advice for people in this section aswell. Hope this is okay, if not please delete:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=3362409#post3362409

Hello there,

I wanted to post this - really just so someone doesn't get "stung" and pay too much!!

I was looking to purchase the following 42" HD Ready Plasma TV: Hitachi PD7200 after reading great reviews etc in various magazines.

I went to check it out in Harvey Norman's and they have a price of €4,500!!

Now with the guide price in the magazines being GBP£2,500 - (€3,693) i thought it was too expensive

......So I did a quick google on it and a list of german retailers came up - and low and behold I ordered one with a company called: www.katronics.de

The price (INCLUDING DELIVERY TO MY FRONT DOOR): €2,700!!! (delivery charge was only €80)

That is a difference of €1,800!!!!

Now before you come up with the following in defence of Harvey Norman:

1. Its a different screen - in german etc etc
Absolutely not! It is in English, plugs are the correct ones, box in English etc It is the EXACT same screen
2. Its an internet site - no comeback etc
No again, it maybe an internet site - but they have a shop in Dresden.
3. No Warranty
Oh yes there is - a european wide warranty covers me if anything went wrong.

So there you have it! I saved €1,800 by clicking on www.google.com

Rip off Ireland is right!

s_gr

Maxwell wrote:

Mods - I have posted this in the rip off republic thread, but I feel it is good advice for people in this section aswell. Hope this is okay, if not please delete:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=3362409#post3362409

Hello there,

I wanted to post this - really just so someone doesn't get "stung" and pay too much!!

I was looking to purchase the following 42" HD Ready Plasma TV: Hitachi PD7200 after reading great reviews etc in various magazines.

I went to check it out in Harvey Norman's and they have a price of €4,500!!

Now with the guide price in the magazines being GBP£2,500 - (€3,693) i thought it was too expensive

......So I did a quick google on it and a list of german retailers came up - and low and behold I ordered one with a company called: www.kartronics.de

The price (INCLUDING DELIVERY TO MY FRONT DOOR): €2,700!!! (delivery charge was only €80)

That is a difference of €1,800!!!!

Now before you come up with the following in defence of Harvey Norman:

1. Its a different screen - in german etc etc
Absolutely not! It is in English, plugs are the correct ones, box in English etc It is the EXACT same screen
2. Its an internet site - no comeback etc
No again, it maybe an internet site - but they have a shop in Dresden.
3. No Warranty
Oh yes there is - a european wide warranty covers me if anything went wrong.

So there you have it! I saved €1,800 by clicking on www.google.com

Rip off Ireland is right!

The link you supplied doesnt seem to work....

Maxwell

oops

- Changed to www.katronics.de

then click on the english tab

pH

While I agree that HN are expensive I don't believe they're ripping anyone off.

I personally don't like the term 'rip-off' being equated to 'too expensive', to me 'ripping off' is about sharp business practices where I trick you into paying too much or sell you something of lesser value than you were expecting.

That said, HN are expensive but they have a store you can walk into an see the TV, they have salespeople who should give you advice, and if something goes wrong you can walk back into a store and stand in front of the person who sold you the screen.

Also with german retailers it's normal to have to wire transfer the funds, this process is open to fraud and you lose consumer protection that buying these things on a credit card gives you.

That said 1,800 euro is a serious chunk of change, I bought a yamaha amp from media checkpoint saving nearly 50% of the price at HarveyNorman. This crowd does/did a COD system with UPS (you pay CASH at the door!). To save that much money I agree that savings outweigh the risks.

yop

Jaysus, great find, some savings

Ciaran500

Found the same thing when I was buying a projector. €1200 online, €2500 for the same one in Harvey Norman and €2300 for a similar model in Peats.

ZENER

Yeah ditto here. Panasonic PAE500 Projector was 2499 in HN (16 months ago) - bought it in Komplett for 1700 euro plus 30 or so delivery.

1800 is a huge saving ok but I would still prefer to have somewhere to walk back into if problems arise in most cases, as pH says, but sometimes the savings just make the risk worth it.

ZEN

Maxwell

pH wrote:

That said, HN are expensive but they have a store you can walk into an see the TV, they have salespeople who should give you advice, and if something goes wrong you can walk back into a store and stand in front of the person who sold you the screen.

Also with german retailers it's normal to have to wire transfer the funds, this process is open to fraud and you lose consumer protection that buying these things on a credit card gives you.

ZENER wrote:

1800 is a huge saving ok but I would still prefer to have somewhere to walk back into if problems arise in most cases, as pH says, but sometimes the savings just make the risk worth it.

You should both re-read my thread again before posting the tripe I thought would be posted. The online website/shop I bought from DO HAVE A SHOP! It is in Dresden - re-read my original post So if there is a problem, I can get on a cheap ryanair flight and go in a argue my case (the cost of the flight is near the cost of the petrol to get to Dublin!)

ZENER wrote:

1800 is a huge saving ok but I would still prefer to have somewhere to walk back into if problems arise in most cases, as pH says, but sometimes the savings just make the risk worth it.

:rolleyes: people like you are the reason we are "BEING RIPPED OFF" - you continue to buy the high prices and people like me will buy them at the correct(cheaper) price and will take the so called "risk" of buying from Germany! I would love to see people like you pay the 4,500 and people like me pay the 2,700 and then see who is the happiest!

ZENER

Hey calm down I'm on your side ! When the difference in price is as great as that then of course you would be mad/stupid to pay it, but you have to balance things out. I personally prefer to see what I'm buying if possible and I'm sure a lot are like this but I know a good saving when I see it - thats why I bought my projector at Komplett rather than pay HN almost 800 more !

There are always risks when buying items from abroad, the delivery guy threw my projector out the back of his truck as I watched him - I almost got sick and was contemplating refusing it. Fortunately all was OK but for something as big as a Plasma TV you wouldn't be so sure. Other problems are with compability - check back here at the number of people who have bought DVD recorders from Germany only to find no audio recorded on programs. These are common problems. You were astute enough to check and confirm all this before ordering - others won't be.

ZEN

pH

Maxwell wrote:

You should both re-read my thread again before posting the tripe I thought would be posted.

So have you got this TV yet? How did the German wire transfer go? How did the delivery go? I'm presuming you speak German or are you expecting these people to deal with you in English if you need to ring them?

Will_H

Maxwell,

I got my Pioneer 43" from Richersounds in Belfast for around the same savings from HN. I was originally looking at the Hitachi.

However, got my Denon 2910 DVD player from technikdirekt.de for €660 as opposed to €900 locally.

For those kind of savings you can get a seriously good amp & speakers.

Cheers
Will

Fallschirmjager

dude good for you!....

dont listen to the shop brigade...

ha ha ha when was the last time you walked into an electronics shop in dublin and the guy working there knew WTF he was talking about. half an hour on google, the odd pdf and bingo.

also as for the i need to see it...well walk into a shop , see it and buy it online...exercise your rights....

i dont see how shipping to ireland can add an extra 1800 to an item!!! remember the guy in dresden is making some spons on it as well...scary to think how we are bending over in this country.

also a word on the shipping....EVERY box travelling everywhere is bunged in the back...doesnt matter if you buy it from a shop or not...the same crowd are banging them on and off containers all day...wheter you see it or not...

Fallschirmjager

pH wrote:

So have you got this TV yet? How did the German wire transfer go? How did the delivery go? I'm presuming you speak German or are you expecting these people to deal with you in English if you need to ring them?

and so to the paranoia....

so let me get this straight...he should pay 1800 so a shop assistant who barely speaks english in dublin should deal with him...if it doesnt work you use your right of return and ship it back for 80 euro .....which by the way is exactly what they will do in dublin...

so unless he has to ship if 23 times to dresden -- only then is he worse off...when was the last time you returned something 23 times??

Maxwell

pH wrote:

So have you got this TV yet? How did the German wire transfer go? How did the delivery go? I'm presuming you speak German or are you expecting these people to deal with you in English if you need to ring them?

You obviously haven't read the post correctly or clicked on the link? The site has an English option on it and when you phone them they have near perfect English and are a pleasure to deal with (they actually know what they are talking about - now pop into your "shop" = Currys/Dixons -and they haven't a clue of products!)

Wire transfer took 2 days to clear into their German bank account. Delivery then happened and I received the TV at my house 4 days later. Just to state again and again for people who aren't reading the threads correctly -

The TV is the exact same TV that is shipped from Hitachi - the box is in English, the manual/instructions are in English - EVERYTHING is the same!

4,500 in Ireland
2,700 delivery to my front door from Germany


People - simple as this - WE ARE GETTING RIPPED OFF, no matter what way you look at it!

Will_H

I don't think it's just rip-off though Fallschirmjager.

Economies of scale also apply here. The small dealer is not going to get the same discounts from the manufacturer that the large dealer will get. Having said that though, that's not my problem - I want the deal that's best for me - as I'm sure everyone does!!

Shop around people!!

P.S. Try Pixmania for some seriously good prices on AV stuff

Fallschirmjager

Will_H wrote:

I don't think it's just rip-off though Fallschirmjager.

Economies of scale also apply here. The small dealer is not going to get the same discounts from the manufacturer that the large dealer will get. Having said that though, that's not my problem - I want the deal that's best for me - as I'm sure everyone does!!

Shop around people!!

P.S. Try Pixmania for some seriously good prices on AV stuff

Will ,

i would agree with you except here is my logic....


1. there is a price of manafacture (and by that lets include shipping and all the other crap bits etc)
2. there is big discount reductions for big suppliers and smaller one for smaller firms
3. i expect everyone to make a fair profit

so dont get me wrong, i am all for profit. but lets look at the prices here..

here is a quote

'Found the same thing when I was buying a projector. €1200 online, €2500 for the same one in Harvey Norman and €2300 for a similar model in Peats'

Now , i give you peats is not big, fair enuf,and lets assume harvey norman is not as well.

then here is my question : why dont they buy 10 from the guy in germany, ship them over (they will get a reduction on that) and earn a profit of say 200 to 400 euro per screen...and as we know with manfacture, there is a cost to them after that it is box shifting...and yes of course the bigger gets more off..

my problem is, and hence the ripped off comment, is someone is goughing not making a profit...IMHO, it looks like they want a profit of 1000 euro per tv MINIMUM!!!

and i hate to use such a girlie term..but it just isnt fair...

i honestly believe ireland will become a web environment for the majority of items like this unless we get competition and i dont mean between harvey and peats i mean harvey and anywhere i can get it +80 euro shipping...they just dont get the web in my opinion..and there is a very very harsh lesson coming...once a tipping point of web access is reached in ireland...

still just an opinion...

pH

i honestly believe ireland will become a web environment for the majority of items like this unless we get competition and i dont mean between harvey and peats i mean harvey and anywhere i can get it +80 euro shipping...they just dont get the web in my opinion..and there is a very very harsh lesson coming...once a tipping point of web access is reached in ireland...

Harvey Norman are expensive (they are not ripping anyone off), and I love the fact that there is now a place in Ireland which has some soft of demo room (yea I know none of the staff know how to use it!) with projectors and surround sound systems.

These places (independent HIFI/home cinema shops) are not 10 a penny in ireland, how many places can you listen to speakers/amp in before you buy them? If there is so much money to be made then as we have a free market other shops move into areas where reatilers are making a killing. The likelyhood is that sales a low and a large margin needs to be achieved on each sale to allow them continue in business at all.

Harvey Norman is a step forward from dixons/currys in terms of the kit stocked, and I welcome that.

UK high street shops are now facing serious problems from online retailers. Customers use the high street shop to choose/listen to the equiment and then buy it online at the cheapest price. Consumers have every right to do this but it is obviously not a practice that can continue for very long.

Bluehair

I miss Richer Sounds. Tiny store but knowledgable staff who were happy to talk you through any purchase and demo your cds etc.

Ry

Will_H wrote:

I don't think it's just rip-off though Fallschirmjager.

Economies of scale also apply here. The small dealer is not going to get the same discounts from the manufacturer that the large dealer will get.

Well said! It's good to see one who understands the bigger picture. OF course it's not your problem or mine or anyone's we just want the best deal going but there is often a grudge held against retailers for what is simply circumstantial and unavoidable higher prices than online warehouse sellers.

"Internet Warehouse" Buy's 50 of X product for 1000 and sells for 1500 each

Retailer Buys only 3 of the same product but at 2000 because of the low quantity and sells for 2300. Profits are usually a lot less in retailers since there's a lot less space and therefore less space to store goods and stock.

Now that's an extreme example but it should give some idea why a lot of prices are higher in shops than online.

Ry

Sparky

i plan on buying my lcd tv off pixmania, i have a good history with them and their orders are quite quick to deliever, the screen im getting i seen in dixions for €2000 and on the net the best price ive seen is €1200.

paddycummins

Maxwell

My apologies if I'm totally off the mark here but according to our government dont you have to pay "import tax" on items bought outside the state ????
that means yer TV , that should be equivalent of 21% to the best of my knowledge ...... I remember I got caught for it as I brought a camera back from USA a few years ago - the customs people refused to give me my camera unless I paid them the money . So I had to fork it out

This would mean that your TV would cost you around €3300 .... (2700 + 21%) ... sometimes you'll get away with it , sometimes you wont - lets face it ...Customs officials in this country dont appear to be the brightest of sparks , but sometimes you get hit with an import tax bill a couple of weeks/months later - and its not nice if ya dont expect it .

I have bought a few things from online , on one occasion a guy in USA ticked the wrong box - saying he'd pay the relevant taxes etc - I'll be damned if he expected me to pay them when he got the bill - I asked him to mark it as a gift or make it cheaper so i wouldnt have to pay that much "import duty" - he refused - so I certainly wasnt gonna pay it if he made the error filling in the form - sometimes ya get lucky !!!

Its still a saving from HN and the other places in the Rip-Off Republic but saving aint as nice as ya think - Fair play to ya for lookin around.

Maxwell

Hi There, YOU ARE TOTALLY OFF THE MARK HERE!

U really don't know what you are talking about and your post just confuses people!

It has already been mentioned - you are buying in from an EU country, you are already paying the tax in the EU country you are buying it from (i.e. Germany) NOT the US! Buying from the US is totally different to buying from the EU - get your facts right before you spout figures!

I was not "lucky"!!!
I should not have paid the crap figures you are spouting!

I am sitting here at home with a TV that I paid 2,700 delivered compared to Harvey Norman priced at 4,500 - if can can't work out the difference then its up to you!

Someone should close this thread now - its got ridiculous!

ZENER

Maxwell wrote:

I am sitting here at home with a TV that I paid 2,700 delivered compared to Harvey Norman priced at 4,500 - if can can't work out the difference then its up to you!

Someone should close this thread now - its got ridiculous!

For someone who has just saved a wad of cash you don't sound very happy - can't you just accept that other people have different ways of approaching things - doesn't mean we're all to stupid to understand.

If you want this thread to die stop posting to it. Also why do you persist in insulting people who agree with your point of view just because they don't necessarily agree with your methods ? I backed up you original post and yet you attacked me ! Why ?

ZEN

paddycummins

Maxwell wrote:

Hi There, YOU ARE TOTALLY OFF THE MARK HERE!

U really don't know what you are talking about and your post just confuses people!

It has already been mentioned - you are buying in from an EU country, you are already paying the tax in the EU country you are buying it from (i.e. Germany) NOT the US! Buying from the US is totally different to buying from the EU - get your facts right before you spout figures!

Firstly , I'd like to say thanks ZEN , and secondly , I agree with ZEN .... Maxwell - you are totally attacking me ! ,

my opening statement was "Apologies If I am totally off the mark here" , which meant I was basically asking if anyone could confirm or deny the idea that Import duty should be added - no need to fly off the handle and attack me.

Maxwell - FAIR PLAY to ya for looking and finding a bargain and telling everyone , but when people voice their opinion .... do NOT attack them ,

I'll be one of the first to say that I'm new to this site - as I'm looking before I purchase I found this site and have been using it to help me find the right advice before I spend a decent amount of money.

optiplexgx270

Maxwell wrote:

Hi There, YOU ARE TOTALLY OFF THE MARK HERE!

U really don't know what you are talking about and your post just confuses people!

It has already been mentioned - you are buying in from an EU country, you are already paying the tax in the EU country you are buying it from (i.e. Germany) NOT the US! Buying from the US is totally different to buying from the EU - get your facts right before you spout figures!

I was not "lucky"!!!
I should not have paid the crap figures you are spouting!

I am sitting here at home with a TV that I paid 2,700 delivered compared to Harvey Norman priced at 4,500 - if can can't work out the difference then its up to you!

Someone should close this thread now - its got ridiculous!

Sheesh somebody needs to get laid

Talk about being an angry bloke, go watch some TV will ya and take it easy.

You live in Ireland and thats just the way it is its no rip-off just damn expensive here and we all know that you need to shop around (can't remember the last time i bought electronics from a shop with bricks and windows and stuff).

Build a bridge and get over it mate!

The Troll

Well i think its fairly common knowledge that goods can be purchased cheaper online than they can in stores. Nothing new being said there.

Henry O'Henry

The Troll wrote:

Well i think its fairly common knowledge that goods can be purchased cheaper online than they can in stores. Nothing new being said there.

What a shower of miserable Begrudgers, the lot of you (not just Troll). Instead of celebrating the fact that a simple combination of the Internet and the EU can save you literally 1000's, ye's are all nitpicking.
Fair play to you Maxwell. What we need is more people to bring more helpful cost saving sites to our attention, like the few brave earlier contributors. Some folk have still not got over Woolworth's closing down.
Now a question for you Maxwell. I sourced in a DVD/HDD recorder in Germany at a great price etc etc. It works perfectly on NTL or Sky digital, but not on NTL analogue. Any similar/other problems with your LCD? ('cause I'd like to order one myself)

Maxwell

Thank you Henry O'Henry - let the muppets pay the high prices and continue to nitpick everything, the rest of us will revel in the bargains we come accross.

I can safely say that I have had no problems whatsoever with my plasma TV since it arrived at my front door. Everything works on it and contrary to some people's posts around the forums I would like to stress again:

The TV is exactly and I mean exactly the same TV you would buy in any shop here in Ireland. The TV's, box, manuals are all in universal languages and contain power supplies for both UK/European countries. The box is in English, the power cord is English - the TV comes out of the same production facility and is distributed around Europe.

I wish you the best Henry O'Henry with your purchase - keep the faith and be delighted with the savings.....afterall its your money!

ZENER

Now a question for you Maxwell. I sourced in a DVD/HDD recorder in Germany at a great price etc etc. It works perfectly on NTL or Sky digital, but not on NTL analogue. Any similar/other problems with your LCD? ('cause I'd like to order one myself)

. . . and there in lies the crux of everyone elses argument on this thread. Yes these items can be bought way cheaper, but when a problem arises you are reduced to asking someone, who doesn't even acknowledge there could be a problem, for help.

There are certain basic rules when buying on-line, especially when purchasing video related items and you just neglected to adhere to those rules hence you have equipment that isn't suitable for the purpose you bought it for.

ZEN

Maxwell

ZENER wrote:

. . . and there in lies the crux of everyone elses argument on this thread. Yes these items can be bought way cheaper, but when a problem arises you are reduced to asking someone, who doesn't even acknowledge there could be a problem, for help.
ZEN

And this "problem" isn't if you only watch TV through Digital and not analogue.

If you research before you buy, then you are okay.

As for your suggestion that he is asking someone for help (i.e me ) and I don't acknowledge there could be a problem??? I bought a Plasma TV and not a HDD recorder - how am I supposed to give advice? I didn't post this thread to offer advice on all things bought through the internet ffs! I bought a Hitachi PD7200 and will offer advice on that.

Any else you want to hassle me on?

deco76

The problem with the so called HiFi Stores in Ireland, Dixons/Harvey Normans etc is not just the expensive price but the products available. I'm looking at buying a specific plasma "Panasonic TH42 PV500" based on excellent reviews from reputable magazines but try find these products in HN or Dixons... No Chance!! They only seem to stock average quality products!!!
I did eventually find it on Peats web-site and their price does match the RRP according to the magazine (€3700) but now Pioneer have released a new 43" model which matches the Panasonic and more so I might just hang on!

Maxwell

Deco76:

If you are looking for the Panny PV500:

Look here for a great price (throw €80 on top for delivery to your door):

http://www.katronics.de/index.php?Artikel_ID=1206&Kat=148&oberkat=45&Tiefe=3&show=1&details=1206&click_count=1&amax=2000#_details

A bargain at that price!

Maxwell

But as I am a huge fan of the Pioneer's -I wish you the best with your choice!!!

yop

Pana is an excellent TV, my mate bought the equivalent 37" and it is some quality

JimmyL

Hi Maxwell,

Have the TV been delivered yet (lost track in all the mess)? Everything ok? Original packaging, etc?

I was think of buying a Philips 32PF9830 from TecnikDirect.De (used them before and their service was very good). Haven't researched Katronics yet but they have the TV for €500 less.

I did try to order with a fake id but when I got to the end, got message saying that the order is manually processed and I will receive an email soon. I guess paying by credit card is out of the question and the only payment option is via wire transfer (from one of your previous email).

Maxwell

Hi JimmyL,

Yes, everything went really, really well. I thought the great thing with dealing with katronics rather than another on line company was the fact that they had a shop in Dresden and a ryanair flight would get me there if there was anything to sort out face to face.

It never came to that - I transferred the money to their account and they shipped the TV the day the amount cleared at their bank. It was then couriered to my door and my wife signed for it after the guy left it inside the door. The box, manuals, instructions - there was even 2 plugs and I plugged the english one in and away I went! It was a perfect transaction and for the price and delivery charge(only €80) were prefect. I will be looking for another one in the next few months, and they will be 1st on my list again.

Totally recommend them and they speak very good english when you call them.

I wish you all the best with your purchase - hope you save a but of cash for yourself!

JimmyL

Thanks Maxwell.

I'll give them a try. By the way, how did you find the site. Google didn't seem to have picked it up (not when I searched for the TV).

Jimmy.

deco76

Maxwell wrote:

But as I am a huge fan of the Pioneer's -I wish you the best with your choice!!!

Thanks for the link Maxwell! After reading reviews of the Pioneer PDP-436 FDE I'm going to go for it instead it's also on the katronics site with a wopping price difference to the RRP (€2895)

Won't be till next year but I'll definately use them for that sort of saving. Did you order through their website or did you ring them?, because the site seems to jump back to German after you change the language to English.