McCartney

Hobbes · 15-09-2005 5:21pm #1

Ok first up.. as far as I am concerned the person who murdered McCarthy should be arrested and jailed.

However listening to the news this morning and this afternoon I have to wonder wtf is going on with the McCarthy story at the moment.

First up, a friend of thiers was mugged, not family. Thats what it looks like to me. IRA after already publically annoucing end of violence and the IRA denying they had anything to do with the mugging. Even so, wtf would be the point of harrassing the McCarthy family anymore?

Last night they were claiming they were being harrassed by a large number of republicans. This morning another group that was protesting about something else said it was them and apologised for any confusion, now this evening the group were coming out to support them instead.

Based on the recent violence in N.I. it wouldn't surprise me if it was idiots from that group that mugged him and this is just media whoring to distract from the travesty that happend over the last few days.

hill16 · 15-09-2005 5:36pm

Loyalists are destroying the place,nothing better to destract media attention than a story about bold Republicans.

murphaph · 15-09-2005 6:56pm

McCartney

15-09-2005 7:37pm

Hobbes wrote:

Last night they were claiming they were being harrassed by a large number of republicans. This morning another group that was protesting about something else said it was them and apologised for any confusion, now this evening the group were coming out to support them instead.

Could you link to some news source about that.Theres nothing as disconcerting as reading a post with nothing to link to when you are starting a thread around a news story.

hill16 wrote:

Loyalists are destroying the place,nothing better to destract media attention than a story about bold Republicans.

Thats right wasn't Reg Empey in Town yesterday(Dublin)
Do ya think he gave the rafferty's a lift up to Belfast on the way back ?

Hobbes · 15-09-2005 7:58pm

It was on RTE + FM104. But checking the news...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Northern_Ireland/Story/0,2763,1570064,00.html?gusrc=rss
Story about claims they are being victimised by Republicans outside thier house screaming out out out.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=661663
Ok so explains the neighbours is seperate night, however it also shows that the people chanting had absolutly nothing to do with her and nothing to do with republicans.

Despite this they claim they are being victimised and that SF won't condem the attack on thier friend later on in the story SF do in fact condem it and as shown have nothing to do it with it.

Of course you have PD later on in the story going on the original chanting which had nothing to do with them.

damien · 15-09-2005 8:12pm

One of the sisters was on the Last Word last night and said that one of the guys in the gang that beat the crap out of their friend was one of the IRA guys that murdered their brother.

Are muggings a common thing in areas controlled by the IRA?

Even so, wtf would be the point of harrassing the McCarthy family anymore?

Who knows what goes through the mind of a man that stabbed a man and cut his throat and who thinks he is above the law?

Hobbes · 15-09-2005 8:18pm

Well for that point then if they know who it is, why is the person still on the street? I mean you have a live witness now? Why did they not call the police when they thought they were being harrassed by crowds?

More to the point where they there when the guy got beaten? Also as far as I recall the person in question is no longer in the IRA. So how could the IRA/SF be responsible for it?

15-09-2005 8:46pm

Hobbes wrote:

It was on RTE + FM104. But checking the news...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Northern_Ireland/Story/0,2763,1570064,00.html?gusrc=rss
Story about claims they are being victimised by Republicans outside thier house screaming out out out.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=661663
Ok so explains the neighbours is seperate night, however it also shows that the people chanting had absolutly nothing to do with her and nothing to do with republicans.

Thanks for the links Hobbes.They actually contradict a lot of what seem to be your initial thoughts on this though.They do confirm that it was a republican womens group that was protesting out side Brigídin's house and why they were protesting.

Despite this they claim they are being victimised and that SF won't condem the attack on thier friend later on in the story SF do in fact condem it and as shown have nothing to do it with it.

I've no doubt that SF have condemned this even though it doesnt say that in either of those links.
However I've no reason to doubt what the McCartney sisters are saying about ongoing intimidation from Republicans.I find it disturbing.

Of course you have PD later on in the story going on the original chanting which had nothing to do with them.

In the link you supply it's an SDLP Mp thats giving out about the situation.
As regards the awfull murder of Mr Rafferty in Dublin,I'd say his relatives have just had enough and kudos to them to be honest if they want to highlight a campaign for justice.
Theres nothing wrong with that.
I dont think it's right to paint it as anything other than that.

However listening to the news this morning and this afternoon I have to wonder wtf is going on with the McCarthy story at the moment.

First up, a friend of thiers was mugged, not family. Thats what it looks like to me.

It seems it was a relative that was attacked,going on the links you provided.However the BBC say it was a close friend of Roberts

IRA after already publically annoucing end of violence and the IRA denying they had anything to do with the mugging. Even so, wtf would be the point of harrassing the McCarthy family anymore?

They claim some Republicans still want them out-other than that It's a puzzle alright.
As regards the intention of the people outside the house earlier in the week.It would be hard to mistake picketers with supporters and why would a group parade around a house unannounced to its occupant??
Given that the McCartneys believe they were being intimidated by a picket,We'd have to take their word for that.I'd imagine they wouldn't have said it given that the next door neighbours would clarify pretty quickly whether they were lying or not and such a claim would damage them.
The McCartneys come across as both clever and brave so I doubt that they would be lying.
Besides that Guardian link says the people numbered at about 50 were shouting "out out out"

it wouldn't surprise me if it was idiots from that group that mugged him and this is just media whoring to distract from the travesty that happend over the last few days.

yeah but again from that Guardian link,we know that the man that was attacked knew his attackers and named them to the police and also that the protest outside Brigidíns house was in response to that.
They were protesting that the incident was reported and they decided to pick on a woman and her two children whose father was murdered...

Hobbes,It seems to be a lot clearer than your first post suggests unfortunately.

15-09-2005 9:04pm

Hobbes wrote:

Well for that point then if they know who it is, why is the person still on the street?

Well you must be aware of the carry on as regards withnesses after Roberts murder? I'd imagine if the victim had one withness there would be five on the attackers side to tell any auld story.I dont believe that his beating was self harm to create a story-that would be a bit far fetched.

I mean you have a live witness now? Why did they not call the police when they thought they were being harrassed by crowds?

I'd imagine they'd rather the hasrassment to just stop without involving the police in that end of it.It's easy to stop harassing people,the harassers could just go to the bingo hall that night instead.It's not so easy to get justice for a victim though,it's something that must involve an accused,the police and the court system.
I'd suggest that SF would have a very big role and quite an amount of pull in persuading anyone that doesnt like the McCartneys for whatever reason to just let it be ie to leave them alone and let the justice process run its course.

More to the point where they there when the guy got beaten? Also as far as I recall the person in question is no longer in the IRA. So how could the IRA/SF be responsible for it?

Responsible for the beating? or the harassment or both ? You dont have to be a paid up member or a nonexpelled member of an organisation to be part of or associated with it or for it to be friendly to you and vice versa. I'd imagine the McCartneys are long enough in the area to know exactly who the locals are, who they are associated with and given thatt...It's all the more understandable that they would be very frustrated that they dont use enough influence to have the problems stopped and the bad blood situation diffused.
One couldnt blame them for highlighting it in the circumstances.
As I said if SF influence was suffeciently brought to bear on whoever is doing the harrassing and the intimidating, then all would quieten down bar the coverage at a later stage on a forth coming murder trial if there is one.

Hobbes · 16-09-2005 6:17am

Earthman wrote:

Thanks for the links Hobbes.They actually contradict a lot of what seem to be your initial thoughts on this though.

Not really. Only about the two demonstrations. The stories were already full of contridictions.

They do confirm that it was a republican womens group that was protesting out side Brigídin's house and why they were protesting.

No. According to the womens group they were not protesting outside her house but on the street. Now I haven't seen if they were passing by or further down the street but they made it plainly clear they were not picketing outside her house. The only one claiming they were outside thier house was McCartney.

Even so if she had made a phone call to the police I am sure they would of been around faster then Ulster could say no.

I've no doubt that SF have condemned this even though it doesnt say that in either of those links.

From the belfast Telegraph link...
Ms McCartney accused Sinn Fein of not making clear their position on the alleged intimidation....

Sinn Fein MLA Gerry Kelly said the incidents at Short Strand benefited nobody and he would encourage mediation to deal with "these disputes".

He added: "Sinn Fein is totally opposed to intimidation of any type, no matter where it comes from, or who it is aimed at. Intimidation is wrong and should not be happening."

Sounds like a condemnation to me.

However I've no reason to doubt what the McCartney sisters are saying about ongoing intimidation from Republicans.I find it disturbing.

Sure, point us to proof of this ongoing intimidation. All I have seen from this story is the sisters putting 2+2 together and getting IRA plot to kill them.

It seems it was a relative that was attacked,going on the links you provided.However the BBC say it was a close friend of Roberts

It isn't a relative that got beaten. That is what is so annoying about this story and its spin.

- The beating wasn't wholely related to the Family.
- The IRA/SF had nothing to do with.
- The murderer has long since been expelled by the IRA so any actions of this guy are criminal ones and should be treated as such.

why would a group parade around a house unannounced to its occupant??

They weren't.

We'd have to take their word for that.

I believe they just too it way out of proportion and the media were happy to spin it in light of the recent violence up north. It is more likely the guy was whacked by people causing violence over the marches (seeing as they didn't bother too much between who they were hurting), rather then the vendetta they are making it out to be.

Besides that Guardian link says the people numbered at about 50 were shouting "out out out" yeah but again from that Guardian link,

I think we dismiss the Guardian link as total tosh considering a large number of other stories (even later) refute a lot of what was said. I just googled and picked the first two stories that came up when you asked for a news story you couldn't find.

we know that the man that was attacked knew his attackers and named them to the police and also that the protest outside Brigidíns house was in response to that.

No. They are totally unrelated incidents. As for being beaten, there is such a thing as Forensics as opposed to "his word against mine". Even so if a person can point the finger to a possible suspect the police don't go "So sorry auld chap but 5 of his mates say your lying" they will drag that person in for questioning and probably his friends too.

.I dont believe that his beating was self harm to create a story-that would be a bit far fetched.

I don't believe that either and never said that.

? You dont have to be a paid up member or a nonexpelled member of an organisation to be part of or associated with it or for it to be friendly to you and vice versa.

Bull. Your expelled, you are generally expelled for a reason. Claims of IRA sanctioned intimidation is laughable. The guy is an out and out Criminal and I doubt he would even listen to the IRA at this point.

That said no proof of any IRA involvement beyond the guy used to be in with them, but then I'd say a lot of criminal elements were/possibly still in the IRA.

As I said if SF influence was suffeciently brought to bear on whoever is doing the harrassing and the intimidating

Except there hasn't been any that I can see reported expect a demonstration unrelated to them being taken out of context.

16-09-2005 9:19am

Hobbes wrote:

No. According to the womens group they were not protesting outside her house but on the street. Now I haven't seen if they were passing by or further down the street but they made it plainly clear they were not picketing outside her house. The only one claiming they were outside thier house was McCartney.

Well I didn't mean to suggest that they were circling her house with a picket but if they were on the street,then unless they kept well away from Brigidín's house,they were protesting outside it. so McCartney is lying? what was the protest about and why did they choose that street?

Even so if she had made a phone call to the police I am sure they would of been around faster then Ulster could say no.

I've already suggested why that might not be the best course of action.

From the belfast Telegraph link...
Ms McCartney accused Sinn Fein of not making clear their position on the alleged intimidation....

Sinn Fein MLA Gerry Kelly said the incidents at Short Strand benefited nobody and he would encourage mediation to deal with "these disputes".

He added: "Sinn Fein is totally opposed to intimidation of any type, no matter where it comes from, or who it is aimed at. Intimidation is wrong and should not be happening."

Sounds like a condemnation to me.

Yeah I missed that bit- But even though I did, and even if that hadn't been in the article,I'd have expected SF to be on record somewhere with a condemnation of intimidation in this incident.did they condemn the assault on Mr Commander yet?What were the womens group protesting about again and why did they choose that street,thats what I'd like to know...and more importantly who they were shouting "out out" to?

Sure, point us to proof of this ongoing intimidation. All I have seen from this story is the sisters putting 2+2 together and getting IRA plot to kill them.

There seems to be plenty of support for the McCartneys version of what went on.

About 150 people gathered outside his partner's house in east Belfast's Short Strand on Wednesday in support of the family.

From here you could start by asking some of those people whats going on-maybe one of them will have a blog.The Belfast telegraph says the later vigil was in support of the McCartneys in the light of the intimidation.

- The beating wasn't wholely related to the Family.

How do you know and how can you be certain,I can't.

- The IRA/SF had nothing to do with.

none of us can be certain about that either unless we believe in the infallability of either the McCartneys or SF.

- The murderer has long since been expelled by the IRA so any actions of this guy are criminal ones and should be treated as such.

But thats also adebateable issue.Without wanting to go into everything discussed in the several threads that were on this subject at the time over again.I'd rather dig out the threads if you like so you could read them rather than repeat the samer too-ing and fro-ing

They weren't.

One of the links quotes them as saying they weren't whilst the Guardian states that they were shouting "out out" outside Brigidín's house.It strikes me as odd that if they were protesting against anti social behaviour as they say they were and not at all at Brigidín-then she and the McCartneys should have known about it after all they live there.
As I said earlier I'd have put them down as clever and brave and not the sort to say these things at the extreme risk of being easily shown as lying.

I believe they just too it way out of proportion and the media were happy to spin it in light of the recent violence up north. It is more likely the guy was whacked by people causing violence over the marches (seeing as they didn't bother too much between who they were hurting), rather then the vendetta they are making it out to be.

But in fairness thats only a spin aswell then untill we know the full facts of the assault.I'd suggest we won't though for the reasons stated already unfortunately.

I think we dismiss the Guardian link as total tosh considering a large number of other stories (even later) refute a lot of what was said. I just googled and picked the first two stories that came up when you asked for a news story you couldn't find.

It wasn't that I couldnt find one-obviously I could,I was just suggesting that when you start a thread about a news story like that, that you link to something so it's not just hearsay to a poster that wouldnt know you.

no they were completely unrelated incidents

This refers to a picket outside Brigidín's house.

As for being beaten, there is such a thing as Forensics as opposed to "his word against mine". Even so if a person can point the finger to a possible suspect the police don't go "So sorry auld chap but 5 of his mates say your lying" they will drag that person in for questioning and probably his friends too.

Oh they will and I hope you're right and that these lads were careless with the forensics this time.They werent in the Robert McCartney murder, they cleaned it up well becasuse they had plenty of experience.

Bull. Your expelled, you are generally expelled for a reason. Claims of IRA sanctioned intimidation is laughable. The guy is an out and out Criminal and I doubt he would even listen to the IRA at this point.

I'd have to say Bull back to you unless you can show me that people involved in the McCartney murder dont pal around together any more or don't have a name for being Rah heads with the associated hard image.

Except there hasn't been any that I can see reported expect a demonstration unrelated to them being taken out of context.

Claim and counterclaim thats what I see.
One side are saying one thing and the McCartneys are saying another.
It depends which one you believe more I suppose, the benefit of my doubt is still with the McCartneys and their local supporters untill I see something concrete to change my mind.I've not to date.

rsynnott · 16-09-2005 10:16am

Hobbes wrote:

- The murderer has long since been expelled by the IRA so any actions of this guy are criminal ones and should be treated as such.

I sincerely hope that you are not suggesting that they would be non-criminal if he was still with SFIRA.

And do you really believe that that demonstration is unrelated to that poor woman? Really?

Hobbes · 16-09-2005 10:25am

Earthman wrote:

so McCartney is lying? what was the protest about and why did they choose that street?

I am not saying McCartney is lying. I am saying they jumped to conclusions. As for the protest it is already listed in the news what they were doing. They were complaining about someone else who was responsible for a large amount of crime in the neighbourhood.

Yeah I missed that bit- But even though I did, and even if that hadn't been in the article,I'd have expected SF to be on record somewhere with a condemnation of intimidation in this incident.did they condemn the assault on Mr Commander yet?

Your point being? You said they hadn't condemmed the incident. I showed you. I haven't looked up the previous incident but prehaps you can tell me seeing as your trying to get some kind of point across.

There seems to be plenty of support for the McCartneys version of what went on.

Just because people were misinformed or that they have support doesn't mean they were correct. Support of what exactly? A friend beaten? Brother killed? or a protest that had nothing to do with her?

The same story also points out that SF said Republicans had absolutly nothing to do with it and with the recent violence in the north I would be more inclined to believe them. The same story also says there is no intimidation going on (even though calling for people to stop). The only person who seems to be claiming intimidation is McCartney.

you could start by asking some of those people whats going on-maybe one of them will have a blog.

Or could try pointing me to evidence of continued intimidation as I have yet to find it beyond this one mistaken incident.

The Belfast telegraph says the later vigil was in support of the McCartneys in the light of the intimidation.

Again as pointed out the Strand Women already after the people came out made an official announcement that it was them on the road and they had nothing whatsoever to do with McCartneys. Follow the news chronologically.

How do you know and how can you be certain,I can't.
none of us can be certain about that either unless we believe in the infallability of either the McCartneys or SF.

I think we can be certain that the people originally protesting who made an official statement had in fact nothing what so ever to do with the IRA.

One of the links quotes them as saying they weren't whilst the Guardian states ...

Again you are reading the news stories out of chronological context. That story was one of the first posted and it has been shown to be incorrect in later stories.

It wasn't that I couldnt find one-obviously I could,I was just suggesting that when you start a thread about a news story like that, that you link to something so it's not just hearsay to a poster that wouldnt know you.

True, but then the poster could just google for it. I generally only ask for link requests if I am unable to find a news story on it or the comments are so skewed from what I do find that I can see their sources.

This refers to a picket outside Brigidín's house.

As pointed out this is incorrect.
The protest was carried out by the Short Strand Women's Group, which has strongly denied that it was seeking to intimidate the family. In a letter to Ms Hagans and Ms McCartney, the group said it had been protesting about anti-social behaviour in the area.

Now please find me an IRA connection. Or even a connection of earlier intimidation by the SSWG.

I'd have to say Bull back to you unless you can show me that people involved in the McCartney murder dont pal around together any more or don't have a name for being Rah heads with the associated hard image.

They have been offically expelled. I don't know your concept of expelled but it seems very clear cut to me. Do you have any evidence that he is no longer expelled? Because I can't find any. I can't find any evidence of support for the murderer by the IRA either. Can you find me that information? Or we going to continue to hearsay and conjecture?

One side are saying one thing and the McCartneys are saying another.

McCartneys are claiming that a protest was against them. It has been shown this was not the case.

They are claiming that a friend of their brothers who was beaten to intimidate them. Conjecture at best unless they have some evidence of this. Likewise with the murderer being in the group.

They are claiming there is ongoing intimidation. I have not seen any reports of this.

They are saying the IRA are not being helpful in bringing their brothers killer to justice. They certainly have a case here.

I also find it hard to believe that the Police are not being called in when there is an issue but rather the media appears to be instead.

16-09-2005 11:46am

Hobbes wrote:

I am not saying McCartney is lying. I am saying they jumped to conclusions. As for the protest it is already listed in the news what they were doing. They were complaining about someone else who was responsible for a large amount of crime in the neighbourhood.

Where did you get reference to exactly what was in the letter?and did they state who they were protesting against? because the only BBC NI link I can find is the one I quoted.The Guardian and BT only say the "women" were protesting something else but don't say who or what.I've also questioned how the McCartneys's couldnt conceivably know what or who or outside whose house they were shouting "out out".
I'm not being purposely antagonistic towards you here hobbes,I'm just looking for clarity.

Your point being? You said they hadn't condemmed the incident.

No I didn't.I said I expect they did and missed the line in your link

I haven't looked up the previous incident but prehaps you can tell me seeing as your trying to get some kind of point across.

I dont know what you're trying to say there but all I was asking was a simple question had they condemned the beating or had they not.All I could find was a reference to SF condemning intimidation and one to the McCartneys asking them to condemn the beating.
Again I'm just looking for clarity here and not some sort of cyber row between you and me.We've both got better things to be doing in our real lives than that

Just because people were misinformed or that they have support doesn't mean they were correct. Support of what exactly? A friend beaten? Brother killed? or a protest that had nothing to do with her?

I understand it was a vigil against the intimidation.

The same story also points out that SF said Republicans had absolutly nothing to do with it and with the recent violence in the north I would be more inclined to believe them.

Why? These are the same people that tried to pawn off Roberts murder as being knife culture...The McCartneys have nothing to gain by saying theres intimidation if there isn't.

Or could try pointing me to evidence of continued intimidation as I have yet to find it beyond this one mistaken incident.

Why not ask the mcartneys or pm Gemma, she's a member of and reads this board.Other than that you are disputing their claims that theres any intimidation.It could be subtle you know.I've still no reason to doubt the McCartneys.

Again as pointed out the Strand Women already after the people came out made an official announcement that it was them on the road and they had nothing whatsoever to do with McCartneys. Follow the news chronologically.

I think we can be certain that the people originally protesting who made an official statement had in fact nothing what so ever to do with the IRA.

Is there any possibility that some of them may have used the opportunity to shout "out out" in front of Brigidín's house un beknownst to the organisers? It's as plausable an explanation as I can think of short of accusing McCartneys of imagining it.In fact seeing as you mention chronology later, it appears from the BT article that the McCartneys even after they got that letter still maintain that people were picketing Brigidíns house.Why would they maintain that if at least some of the people weren't directing the "out out" at Brigidín?

Again you are reading the news stories out of chronological context. That story was one of the first posted and it has been shown to be incorrect in later stories.

I don't know at what time the BT article was published but the BBC one was at 1242 yesterday.As for the chronology of when the papers were written and what they've included thats a side issue to the main issue and that is-Are the McCartneys being intimidated and if so by whom and why.

True, but then the poster could just google for it. I generally only ask for link requests if I am unable to find a news story on it or the comments are so skewed from what I do find that I can see their sources.

From the charter:

When offering fact, please offer relevant linkage, or at least source. Simply saying "a quick search on google...." is often, but not always, enough. If you do not do this upon posting, then please be willing to do so on request.

As I said it's better tidier and an easier read for most of us who are otherwise busy if the threads are as succinct as possible when the dicussion that will follow relies on facts.Thats all I was pointing out to you.It's not good enough to simply say I heard this and I heard that without saying where.

As pointed out this is incorrect.
The protest was carried out by the Short Strand Women's Group, which has strongly denied that it was seeking to intimidate the family. In a letter to Ms Hagans and Ms McCartney, the group said it had been protesting about anti-social behaviour in the area.

Now please find me an IRA connection. Or even a connection of earlier intimidation by the SSWG.

I accept what you are saying there with the proviso that I mentioned earlier ie the possibility that some of these people were using the protest at something else as a cover.
To date I've found the McCartneys genuine and sincere and I'd be shocked to find that they might be making things up about intimidation.
So I'd really like to hear their side of this rather than jump to any more conclusions.
I've already got an idea formed in my head as to what might be going on here but think it best not to conclude this

They have been offically expelled. I don't know your concept of expelled but it seems very clear cut to me. Do you have any evidence that he is no longer expelled? Because I can't find any. I can't find any evidence of support for the murderer by the IRA either. Can you find me that information? Or we going to continue to hearsay and conjecture?

Both of us are doing that as facts are hard to come by.It all depends on how much trust you put on what the IRA say-they don't have a very good record in that department.

McCartneys are claiming that a protest was against them. It has been shown this was not the case.

They are claiming that a friend of their brothers who was beaten to intimidate them. Conjecture at best unless they have some evidence of this. Likewise with the murderer being in the group.

They are claiming there is ongoing intimidation. I have not seen any reports of this.

They are saying the IRA are not being helpful in bringing their brothers killer to justice. They certainly have a case here.

I think I've given an opinion on all that above.

I also find it hard to believe that the Police are not being called in when there is an issue but rather the media appears to be instead.

Correct me if I'm wrong( and thats what we are here for after all,I doubt you and me are here in a competition as to who upends who , we are discussing and learning ) I think the media were there to report on the Rafferty McCartney meeting
and the rest of this came to a bigger light as a result of that.Mr Commander having been viciously beaten was also a news story in its own right and the fact that he was a good friend of Roberts and that Mr Commander stated he knew his attackers as connected with Roberts Murderers also would add fuel to a story.The media didnt pluck it out of thin air, it developed for them.

Cork · 16-09-2005 9:20pm

The intimidation of the McCartneys has to stop. Those engaged in the intimidation campaign are scum.

What leadership have SF/IRA shown on this?

The Rafferty murder was also inexcusable.

Enda Kenny satisfied the murder was carried out by an active IRA member.

Some ceasefire.

link

Cork · 18-09-2005 4:01pm

I am happy the McCartneys got the Irish Person of the year award last night. It took much courage to stand up to the provisional movement.

Their brothers killer and those engaged in the cover up are still walking the streets.

It is about time that those who witnessed this brutal murder came forward.

McCartney

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