won an mtt outright finally

Doc Farrell

pity it was only the 3 dollar sat for the EPT rebuy. :mad:
but what the hell, a win is a win.
now, where's my cheap cigars....
gotta love them smilies!

Ste05

May I be the first to congratulate you, wp sir

Doc Farrell

ty sir.
i have the whole week to look forward to getting knocked out in 72nd position having rebought for 300 dollars!

Ste05

lol - not at all, you'll follow in the foot steps of ollie etc.

Einstein

nice one Des

Well played!

Ollieboy

well done Doc, i would suggest its harder to win at that level than higher levels.

Now get back to the 25 STT, so we can have a game.

califano

Well Ollieboy whats the news??? How'd it go?? The full run down?

BigDragon

About time Doc..

WD M8

Doc Farrell

thanks lads, well what the hell, i enjoy winning these 3 dollar things. I've pretty much given up spending cash online (and soon offline) especially after the 6 weeks I've had, missing out on big paydays by bad beats, crashing my car into a taxi and being annoyed by 2 people whose names I know and yet who I prefer not to name in public in the hope that they will see sense.

I've been thinking about the amount of time and effort I've been putting into this game versus the rewards and I can definitely see an end to it happening.
I enjoy this forum but more as a vehicle for self expression then as a place for talking about poker. I may end up posting more in the beer and hill walking fourms than in the poker one!

I'm aware that there are at least a dozen regular posters here who actually make much more money at this game than I but I am also aware that more than nine out of ten players eventually lose money. Now before you think that I'm going to start ranting, here me out.
All the magazines, internet sites and casinos are geared towards praising the game, showing it in a positive light. So much, so obvious.

But very soon there will be major backlash by players themselves around the world who will want some balance in the coverage, who will want to warn new and over confident players of the danger inherent in this game.

When new players ask me what they should do I tell them to give it up, to concentrate on capitalist endevours that will net them more or on hobbies that will cost them less.

I wonder what magazine or website will be mature enough to begin this
discussion.

where am i going with all this..? I'm not sure. Perhaps to say to players who don't know me that there are much fewer players doing as well than you might imagine. That no matter how skillful you think you are, luck will bite you in the ass at exactly the wrong time and it'll cost you a lot. And that finally there are very few things less important than the turn of a card and if you are missing out on better experiences then turn off your laptop and get stuck into them before its too late.

If that all sounds like doomsaying then maybe it is. Thats why my avatar is oscar the grouch. Tomorrow I'll be supportive of the game but right now all I'm saying is be careful.

(and moderators, if this is slated by any anonymous posters just leave what they have to say up anyway, the sadness and anger that they express towards me, a stranger, is indicitive of the kind of lost attitude I'm warning against here)

there's a buddhist concept of the angry ghost which I notice in some losing players and that I would very much like to see discussed by someone more informed than me. but basically if you find yourself having a groundhog day week after week, in a negative frame of mind and engaged in destructive habits (like spending money you can't afford) then go scuba diving or take an evening course or do anything positive to break out of the routine.

hope all that doesn't sound too touchy-feely!

take it handy, d.

Lafortezza

Doc Farrell wrote:

All the magazines, internet sites and casinos are geared towards praising the game, showing it in a positive light. So much, so obvious.

But very soon there will be major backlash by players themselves around the world who will want some balance in the coverage, who will want to warn new and over confident players of the danger inherent in this game.

When new players ask me what they should do I tell them to give it up, to concentrate on capitalist endevours that will net them more or on hobbies that will cost them less.

I don't think we'll ever see this backlash personally. Think about the huge amount of money to be made by the poker industry (not just the actual people who play the game). TV, magazines, websites, commentators, Party Poker/PPP/Poker Stars will never ever let poker be seen in a bad light. There's just too much at stake money-wise.
And I doubt the winning players will ever want the game of poker to be seen in a bad light either. Their winnings are funded by inexperienced and novice players joining in games where they don't stand to win. So the winning players will never want warnings to be issued about the dangers of poker as it will reduce the amount of new players "giving it a shot".

And players who lose money won't tell others about the risk involved in playing poker for medium and large stakes. It's a psychological thing that nobody wants to be seen as a loser. Nobody wants to tell their buddies that over the last year they've lost €1500 in cash games online. Losing players will say that they're 'break-even so far this year' or 'up a bit and down a bit'.

The risks won't ever become publicised in a big way. Any voices that highlight the dangers of poker, the long anti-social hours, the risk to your personal finances, the possibility of depression and all that jazz, will be drowned out by those who stand to gain most by the continued explosion of poker.

The only people who will speak up are those, like Doc, who care for peoples welfare as regards gaming and poker. Al Schoonmaker on the 2+2 forums continually advises people not to turn pro. Under certain circumstances he will admit that an individuals mind-set, financial position and determination (and skill obviously) would make life as a pro poker player a
probable success. But he says a fuller life where poker as a supplemental income or as a serious hobby is far better as you'll still have a regular paycheck from your normal job to rely on, is the ideal situation.

DocFarrell wrote:

That no matter how skillful you think you are, luck will bite you in the ass at exactly the wrong time and it'll cost you a lot. And that finally there are very few things less important than the turn of a card and if you are missing out on better experiences then turn off your laptop and get stuck into them before its too late.

Luck and variance will always play their part, the simple answer is to be prepared mentally and financially. If you are prepared then it costs you nothing when someone hits that 1-outer on the river to take your whole stack. Luck becomes just another combination of % figures in poker tracker.
You know that for every 1-outer that your opponent hits, he'll miss the other 43 times and you win money.
I agree that many players don't have this preparation, but these are the players that increase my bankroll.

It's a double edged sword between wanting to make money and giving a toss about who you take it off.

Hectorjelly

Doc Farrell wrote:

But very soon there will be major backlash by players themselves around the world who will want some balance in the coverage, who will want to warn new and over confident players of the danger inherent in this game.

Poker is a - EV proposition for most players, but then so is the lottery, slot machines, horse racing and pretty much every other gambling endeavor you care to mention, so I dont foresee any backlash. At least in poker it is technically possible to play an + EV game (it isnt usually) and what you win or lose is in the long run depends to some extent on how you play.

mewso

I agree that it's a dangerous game to consider playing full time but I think the negative comment on poker is out there and has always been out there in a general anti-gambling sentiment.

What actually doesn't get discussed much imo is that poker is something you can play leisurely and responsibly in the same way you might go out drinking, for a meal etc. I suspect many people are capable of a responsible attitude to playing the game like this. It does seem like some people are playing in the Fitz tourneys constantly and one wonders can they all be making a profit?

I go into the Fitz when I can afford to. So they don't see me there every week by any means. I have been playing the game for 4 years and I can honestly say I was not making a profit in the game.

Last mondays cash in the €100 may have brought me into the black by a cent or two but the point for me was that I was not shovelling cash into my account every day of those last 4 years. I play when I can.

One time I lodged €80 into VC and 8 months later I was still playing with the same cash which had hovered around the €500 mark (from cashes in STTs and MTTs). I had played poker for 8 months online for €80. Suited me fine. Then I went on a bad run and basically lost it all. Now I'm messing around with €3 STTs and working my bankroll back up.

The upshot is that I think I play responsibly, try to improve my game as I go and do not have a serious problem. I would not consider playing professionally unless I was handed a gilt-edged sponsorship deal to play in all major tourneys. Then I couldn't resist. I can't be the only one like this. It's not all black and white.

Anyway well played Doc but seriously try not to ponder this game too much. You work for a living so play poker from time to time when it's appropriate and not a strain on the bank balance or the mind.

Einstein

Musician's right in that there are lots of us out there that play poker leisurely and responsibly, and only when we can afford to.

I'm only playing poker about 8 or 9 months. I play Freerolls with the aim to win tickets to the big games.
Some people say why in the world would you play freerolls, that's not real poker. Well my opinion? Play your cards in the right way and once you play real poker, you can't help but prevail over most of the muppetry in some of the freerolls. When I look at the final tables...i normally always see the same faces that make their way through the night.
I have zero interest in paying €100+ for a game of cards. The most I might push would be the €50 game in the Fitz. I don't really drink and i don't smoke, so i choose to spend a few quid on poker a couple times a month. If i ever get lucky + experienced enough to win a nice amount, I might start a small bankroll and run with it for a while, but it's not a priority.

The other side of the coin is the people that have the addictive personality, and that's where I agree with Des. Some people sit down at a cash game, way out of their league, the experienced people's eyes light up and just take pot after pot from the newcomer, normally without much of a care in the world. I see people dropping 70-100 euro in a freeroll and the look of despair on their faces when they go out and need yet another buy in. Personally I don't see the point, and I'm glad I don't fall into this category. But it's a pity that more people don't say "you don't have to buy back in" instead of "sure you might aswell, it's only a freroll!" Unfortunately one man's freeroe has becomes another man's €100 game with the possibility of only winning a ticket of equal or lesser value.

At the end of the day I play poker for fun and that's it. If i win some cash along the way it makes it that bit more enjoyable. Regardless of anything...there'll always be another game, and if I can't afford to play this month, no biggy, I'll wait till next month!
Hopefully it's threads like this that will make people realise that not everyone that plays poker plays night after night burning holes in their pockets.

Right, that's me finished rambling...:)

Stay Lucky...

ionapaul

One thing I've been wondering recently is whether the 20 or so regulars in the Fitz who play 5 or 6 times a week and always are the people at the top of the monthly leaderboard, actually make any sort of consistent profit? And if they do not, do some people here think they have a problem? Say some of those players lose €600 a month on average - many hobbies cost less money, but at the same time, many hobbies cost more. A lot of people in modern Ireland can afford to lose that amount of money a month and still maintain their standard of living. Undoubtably many poker players, both on and offline would be classified as having addictive personalities, but hopefully most have this addiction to risk and competition well under control.

One thing I've always said about poker - for those who are in it for the money, I honestly believe there are easier ways of making your fortune than playing poker online or off 40 hours a week. I've yet to meet a poor corporate lawyer, for example!

DeVore

I've been involved in many levels of poker and seen it from the top players to the freerollers. There are things you are missing both good and bad, that havent been commented on yet.

Not everything in life (or poker!) revolves around money. One of the nice things about living the pro lifestyle (at least on the tournie circuit) is the quality of life you have. You get to see a lot of the world, experience things you wouldn't otherwise and generally lead what amounts to a playboy life!
That doesnt necessaraily apply to the internet-pro who is grinding out a living on the 2/5 tables but certainly some pros live the life of Reilly!

In terms of making more money doing anything else, Peter Roche made nearly a quarter of a million last year and bought a house (with cash). He plays 3 nights a week and says he couldnt possibly make more doing anything else. There are pros and then there are pros! Grinding out your rent or at least part of it (as I do) has to be classed as "professional" playing but the reality is that its a function of your bankroll. You cant win what you aren't willing to lose so for many "pro" or "semi-pro" players they can't make much money because they just dont have the tank to play 20/40 PLO and make some REAL dough. Remember there are fish at every level of the game, I definitely saw that in Vegas this year!!

The downsides are that the life is unstructured and it would be very easy to lose discipline and get into drink/drugs/gambling as you're life is entirely unrestricted except by your own internal boundaries. Maintaining that discipline in the face of temptation with little or no points of reference for your moral compass would be hard!

From my point of view I would agree with whats been said, the life of a poker pro is great but its not for everyone! If you love the game and love to play, then play but do what you are *good* at for your living!

I would have to say that on my play this year I'm up a small amount. Nothing terrific as this year has been much worse then last year (when the fields in the Fitz were much smaller and wins were more regular). Of course now the prizepools are huge so you only need to win a few to compensate. However I'm in the fortunate position that I can make a side line of cash from writing about poker and from working in the industry. Having seen a lot this summer, I would love to be one of the top pros, but I wouldnt like to simply grind out a living from it.

DeV.

Lafortezza

I think it's safe to say that Peter Roche and players like him are the tiny tiny minority of pro players.

Doc Farrell

oh man, 3 beers and off i go...

right now I could possibly disagree with every point i made late last night but what the hell, let it go.

see u at the tables.

dev, check your post and pm me back please.

DeVore

Wilco, stuck in the middle of a media circus here but will get a few minutes free shortly. My PM box scares me, but I'll steel myself and open it, just for you.

DeV.