The Irish Language and Elitism

jetsonx

Do every get the feeling with Irish speakers outside Gaeltacht regions that speaking Irish is done for social effect. Sad I know, but I have met many people whereby I get the impression that speaking of Irish for them is not done out of a passion for the language but rather as an elitist gesture. Discuss.

OLP

whenever people have something that makes em special they'll ride it to the bone IMO, and the fact that there arent alot of irish speaking people outisde gaeltacht regions doesnt help.

Dave!

Maybe they just feel that everyone else should know the language too... I dunno, I don't speak it, lol

LadyJ

OP I think that's a bit of a radical statement. Personally I don't enjoy speaking Irish but only because I'm not too hot at it! I don't get any mad thrill out of speaking English either tbh! Language is simply a means of communication. If I knew 7 languages I'd speak a different one every day of the week!

Maybe people just like to mix and match.....

Dimitri

I happily speak irish with one of my buddies from time to time, he's very good at it and doing it in college i stumbeled throught two leaving certs repeating because i failed it the first time, however we both feel its a lovely language and its nice to speak it, also its something i feel would be a shame to see die, and i hope if i ever have children that they can speak it better than i can.

nesf

This isn't the Irish forum. I think some there might be able to best answer your question

Thread moved

nesf

Personally, I think it's a very small percentage of Irish speakers who are elitist about it. I have met a few in my time who were very condescending about the fact I only have rudimentary Irish, one went as far as to tell me to change my name from Pádraig to Patrick to reflect this.

But the vast majority of Irish speakers I know aren't like this. If anything they would help improve your Irish and be more interested in doing that than "lording the the fact that they can speak it over you".

Suaimhneach

I'd agree with the general consensus here, that it's a small minority of people that are eliest, but no more than you would get in any other similar group.

simu

WEll, the thing is, many people who have fluent Irish don't get to use it that often so they get enthused when they finally do get an opportunity. It's possible that there are some who use it in an elitist way but these must be a minority and tbh, I think the charge of elitism often reflects some sort of inferiority complex/grudge/other issue on the part of the accuser more than anything else. "They're speaking Irish - they must be doing it to show off and taunt me for not understanding" and so on.

Gael

jetsonx wrote:

Do every get the feeling with Irish speakers outside Gaeltacht regions that speaking Irish is done for social effect. Sad I know, but I have met many people whereby I get the impression that speaking of Irish for them is not done out of a passion for the language but rather as an elitist gesture. Discuss.

Could you be a bit more specific with examples etc? There certainly are people like that but as has been stated already you get people like that in every aspect of life.
A common example that I've heard of is Irish people deliberately (trying) to speak Irish around immigrants just to be antagonistic or as a form of xenophobic defiance.
But the most ironic thing about that is that the people who resort to that seem quite often to be the "Irish is a waste of time" brigade, who suddenly find a use for this cultural instrument that they've probably despised until now, as a means to hit back at the new cultural diversity they seem to feel threatened by. Very odd indeed.

Dalta

It's in the culture of those lads to be threatened. And when they feel threatened, they try to insult the nearest thing to them to take the pressure off. So, when someone says they're not really Irish cause they can't speak Irish, they call them Provo's and what not. When they feel threatened by these newcomers, they insult them by saying that they are now not really Irish because they don't speak Irish. Ní hait an mac an tsaoil.

Gael

Dalta wrote:

It's in the culture of those lads to be threatened. And when they feel threatened, they try to insult the nearest thing to them to take the pressure off. So, when someone says they're not really Irish cause they can't speak Irish, they call them Provo's and what not. When they feel threatened by these newcomers, they insult them by saying that they are now not really Irish because they don't speak Irish. Ní hait an mac an tsaoil.

Díreach é a mhac, díreach é.

Míshásta

jetsonx wrote:

Do every get the feeling with Irish speakers outside Gaeltacht regions that speaking Irish is done for social effect. Sad I know, but I have met many people whereby I get the impression that speaking of Irish for them is not done out of a passion for the language but rather as an elitist gesture. Discuss.

Ambaist! An tEilíteachas Abú! Tá sé agat, a mhic, ní amháin go bhfuilid eilítiseach ach ná fuil aon bhéasa acu. A leithéid de shotal, gan iompú ar theanga an mhóraimh chomh luath is a thagann tusa i raon éisteachta leo. Sin é an fhadhb, na daoine baoth-ghalánta úd atá ag bladaireacht i nGaeilge na neamh-Ghaeltachta i gcomhair na héifeachta sóisialta agus mar gotha eilíteach.

Ach canathaobh go bhfaigheann tú an feeling agus an impression sin. An bhfaigheann tú na mothúchain dhiúltacha chéanna nuair a chloiseann tú Germáinis, Pólainnis, Araibis, Swaihili nó Elvish? B'fhéidir gur agatsa an fhadhb.

'Sé mo thaithí féin, ná má tá comhluadar de sheisear ag caint as Gaeilge, go n-iompaíonn gach mac máthar acu ar an Sacs-Bhéarla chomh luath is a thagann duine amháin gan Ghaeilge nó duine ná fuil sásta í a labhairt i láthair. Cén fáth? b'fhéidir ar eagla mí-chlú ghalar an eilíteachais.

Anois caithfead dul chun cúpla piontaí a shlogadh siar chun na néaróga a cheansú. Agus nílim chun bachaint le aistriúchán. Coimeádimis teanga bhinn cheolmhar ár sinsear dár dream beag suarach eilíteach féin.

For de social effect, dja know!

Uainn go léir anso in #37 "Chetwynde Downs"

Slááán tamall.

FRC

*Sinéad*

a mhí-shasta dhílis; is breá liom é!
fós caithfidh me a rá ,áfach, go bhfuil saghas yuppification don ghaeilge i gceantracha, nó i súile daoine, áirithe ach ní cheapaim gur an rud cheanna le elitism. Ara muise, bíonn duine mar sin sa soal i gconaí níl móran gaol aige leis an teanga ata á labhairt acu.

nesf

Anyone else see the irony of this thread?

Aisling(",)

I love Irish and speak it when I can but I also mix some words in english eg:I find myself saying agus insted of and.
But on the point i do think that people who are fluent as gaeilge think that they are better then people who aren't fluent.

Míshásta

*Sin&#233 wrote: »

a mhí-shasta dhílis; is breá liom é!
fós caithfidh me a rá ,áfach, go bhfuil saghas yuppification don ghaeilge i gceantracha, nó i súile daoine, áirithe ach ní cheapaim gur an rud cheanna le elitism. Ara muise, bíonn duine mar sin sa soal i gconaí níl móran gaol aige leis an teanga ata á labhairt acu.

Bhuel, deirtear linn i gcónaí go bhfuil/raibh iomhá an bhoctanais ag an nGaeilge leis na céadta bliain. Níl aon bhaol di, déarfainn, baint a bheith aige le saol na suasóg.

Míshásta

nesf wrote:

Anyone else see the irony of this thread?

Dhera, na bac leis an ioróin, a mhic. Sin coincheap gallda a tháinig isteach thar bóchna le síol na gCromailleach.

Míshásta

Aisling(",) wrote:

I love Irish and speak it when I can but I also mix some words in english eg:I find myself saying agus insted of and.
But on the point i do think that people who are fluent as gaeilge think that they are better then people who aren't fluent.

Ach canathaobh go gceapann tú é sin fé chainteoirí líofa Gaeilge? Sin an rud nach dtuigim. An mothaíonn tú mar a gcéanna fé chainteoiri Gearmáinise, mar shampla.

I mo thuairimse, creideann lucht chaitheamh na ndairteanna go bhfuilid i bhfad níos éirimiúla ná an chuid eile againn.

Agud dar ndóigh, tá mise fhéin i bhfad níos fearr ná daoine eile cé nach cainteoir líofa mé, in ao'chor. :cool:

simu

Mísh&#225 wrote: »

Dhera, na bac leis an ioróin, a mhic. Sin coincheap gallda a tháinig isteach thar bóchna le síol na gCromailleach.

Bheul, tháinig an teanga go dtugtar Gaeilge inniu uirthi isteach thar bóchna chomh maith.