Liveline (Joe Duffy), RTE radio 1, Monday 12th September

Rovi

Just a heads up on today's Liveline on RTE1 (1.45pm).

Joe is looking for opinions on the recent Kilkenny shooting incident, and mentioned the 'fact' that the local gun club formed a guard of honour for the man in question, and he's asking how this man could have a 'rifle' (???) when the Guards knew he was a danger to himself and others.


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Sparks

I wonder if this Sunday's Times article on the shooting (where they pointed out that Kehoe was not known to be in any way agitated or under undue stress prior to the shooting) will be mentioned?

Rew

The cops were told that he was threating the guy and there was a court order against him. They should be answering questions not shooters.

civdef

I'm not familiar with all the facts of the case, but on the face of it, the forming of a guard of honour by members of the gun club strikes me as lacking in discretion, consideration and judgement.

Rew

civdef wrote:

I'm not familiar with all the facts of the case, but on the face of it, the forming of a guard of honour by members of the gun club strikes me as lacking in discretion, consideration and judgement.

I tend to agree but I take the "guard of honour" bit with a pinch of salt. The may have just carried the coffin and/or followed behind it. Its hard to say.

Going by what was published in the Irish Times:

Kehoe had a court order against him interfrearing with the sale of the land or Healy's work on it. Healy had reported Kehoe to the gardaí for physically threatening him and had told the gardaí the morning of the shooting that he would be working on the land that day.

Looks like emotions were running high but seems like such a trival thing to lose 2 lives over.

Sparks

From the Sunday Times:

THE family of James Healy, who was murdered last weekend over a plot of land in Carlow, has insisted there was no provocation or even an argument before the fatal shooting.

Brian Healy, the only witness to last Saturday’s tragic events, has told family members that he and his brother had no warning of Michael Kehoe’s sudden attack.

...

Contrary to media reports, there was no altercation last Saturday morning before Kehoe emerged from his farmhouse in Coolyhune, Co Carlow, and came running at the two brothers firing a shotgun.

In fact, the two sides had a civil conversation less than 10 minutes beforehand when they discussed the fencing the Healy brothers were erecting, as arranged, around 27 acres of land they had bought.

...

Contrary to reports last week, James Healy had not taken out an injunction against Kehoe to prevent him from interfering in the work he was doing on the land. Although the Healys had paid a deposit to Kehoe’s sister Catherine, the vendor, they were not yet the legal owners because the deal could only be closed once the fencing was erected.
...

Kehoe had met the Healys on previous occasions too. “He wasn’t particularly chatty with them but there was never any indication that there was anything seriously wrong.”

Sounds to me like noone yet knows exactly what the hell happened (so now would be the usual time to see the Firearms Acts amended...:rolleyes: ).

Rew

The IT stuff is out the window so. The whole situation is very odd...

Rovi

Here's an MP3 of the segment (651KB)- http://download.filefront.com/...

'Terry' seems to be voicing most of the concerns expressed here, and explaining some of the vagaries of the the Firearms Licencing system too.


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Sparks

Thanks for that Rovi...

Rovi

Here's an MP3 snippet from this morning's Morning Ireland (385KB)-
http://download.filefront.com/...

It's a member of the gun club defending their decision to form a guard of honour.

I'm sure these guys were in a very difficult position, as the man was a club member and they want to show their sympathy for his relatives and friends.
Local sensitivities and the tightly woven network of relationships between everyone in a small community make this sort of thing very hard to deal with in a manner that satisfies everyone.

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civdef

Showing sympathy is fine, but a guard of honour is something more, like it says on the tin, it is to honour. There was nothing at all honourable in that man's actions.

They can say what they like about his life before, all fine etc, but at the end of the day, by providing a guard of honour, the perception is they have minimised the gravity of the crime the man committed. In the circumstances, a wreath, mass card or whatever would have been more appropriate.

Sparks

Article in today's Examiner:

Gardaí probe granting of firearms cert
By Caroline O'Doherty
AN internal garda inquiry into the handling of the murder and suicide that cost the lives of two young farmers in Co Carlow will probe why the killer was granted a firearms certificate when complaints had been made about his threatening behaviour.

Michael Kehoe, 39, used his legally held shotgun to shoot dead his neighbour, James Healy, 30, before turning the gun on himself on September 3 following a long-running dispute over land ownership.

A senior garda yesterday confirmed that local gardaí had been contacted about Mr Kehoe's behaviour towards other people in the area on a number of occasions prior to the incident. In spite of this, he was not refused a gun licence by his local station when it came up for annual renewal.

Fermoy-based Chief Superintendent Gerry Phillips has been appointed by Garda Commissioner Noel Conroy to carry out a review of the garda handling of the incident.

Superintendent Kevin Donohue of the Garda Press Office said yesterday it was expected one of the issues Chief Supt Phillips would focus on would be Mr Kehoe's access to firearms.

He said: "Chief Supt Phillips was directed by the Commissioner to review all the circumstances surrounding the incident and how it came to happen so I have no doubt he will be looking at that. It is relevant to his enquiries.

"I think you can be satisfied that we were aware of issues arising involving Michael Kehoe and that as a result, people had expressed concerns."

Supt Donohue added: "It is normal to look at the history of the gun and that involves its ownership and licencing history."

Firearms certificates can only be issued by gardaí of superintendent rank or higher and can only be refused if the superintendent has solid grounds to believe an applicant is not of sound mind or temperate manner as a refusal can be appealed in the district court.

Mr Justice Robert Barr, who chaired the tribunal of inquiry into the fatal shooting of John Carthy, who also had a legally held shotgun despite concerns about his behaviour, has queried whether the issuing of licences should be tightened up and whether applicants should have to produce proof of mental fitness.

He is expected to make recommendations on the issue in his final report due in the coming months although gun clubs have said they would be opposed to any further restrictions.

Michael Kehoe was a member of the Glynn and District Gun Club which yesterday defended its decision to form a guard of honour at his funeral despite the upset of mourners.

Club member Lar Cushen said Mr Kehoe had been a very good neighbour and dismissed as "lies" reports that he was a loner and "no angel".

"What happened on the morning wasn't done by the Michael Kehoe that was known around by his neighbours. We don't know what happened Michael that morning. His mind obviously flipped so that's why he committed that offence."

Rovi

Another 'heads up'.
Apparently Joe's going to have a Guard on today (Wed. 14th), who's going to explain 'how easy it is to get a gun licence' ???????????????????????



Hmmmmmmmmm.........
Should we be getting paranoid?


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civdef

Yes. Oh for a coherent and persuasive pro shooting representative right now.

If anyone wants to totally debunk the idea of medical certs, mentioning thet John Carthy's psychiatrist wrote him a letter saying he was fit to get his gun back might be a start...

Rovi

Well, looks like that didn't happen.
Lack of interest, I suppose.


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jaycee

The lack of misinformation is never a great loss...

Flattop 15

Yeah!Just try getting on Liveline or any RTE programme with an opposing view or the just plain facts when especially Joe Duffy or Jerry Ryan have a bee in their bonnet about somthing and are out to do a hatchet job on somone or some group.
Once in support of gun ownership,I was cut off on air by Mr Ryan while trying to make a pertinent point,and the rest of the segment was given to an anti gun editor of the STAR newspaper.
I know this from personal experiance with Mr Duffy which was regarding a matter,[non shooting related] in which I was work involved.For one week solid week the Joe Duffy show did a hatchet job on a a mans career,ruined his busisness,refused to allow any pro calls on the air in support of this man.
I cant give any more details as this matter is now sub judicie but one day this story will be out and I hope this man takes RTE and Mr Duffy to the cleaners.
Prime time...no better in the above related case.
How about the Magdalene laundery controversy about the mass grave burial last year.Again the same tactic,block any dissenting voice.A week later Liveline is reading a contrite apology after legal action is threatend.

Network News 2 with Anthony Rineane is another.I once rang him after a very bad anti gun piece which was after the ten year old shot his pals in 1997? in the States.It was almost a "rip&read" article from the Gun Control Network filled with untruths,distorts,and other inaccury.Mr Rineane was unbeliving,brusque and dismissive.I even offered and sent up my details as a "consultant" on firearms matters.I was never called.

So the bottom line here is people,we WONT get a even balanced debate on this issue here or anywhere else EVER.Look how much Pro gun articles we had this year,was there much on RTE news or sports TV??? Let me know if you find it as I must have blinked and missed it. The best was Des Crofton on Ear to the Ground,as it was a well structured segment of that programme.
"Zoo radio"OTOH is a different beast alltogether.
Remember the muck rakers adage;If it bleeds ,it leads. Bad news sells,good news does not.You always need a scapegoat,even if they are innocent.
Even if we had the best PR we wouldnt get anywhere if it isnt in "the public intrest".If no one calls you you cant speak for your group.So it just behooves us all to ring up to put our points across or defend gun ownership if you hear a gun related article.The more pro calls a chat show gets the better your side will be repersented.
Thats my experiance of dealing with this media of Ireland.