just another boring hand history post..

ocallagh

would be grateful for opinions.. it's not a spectacular hand at all but it kinda interests me..

I removed most of the pointless info.

xmenonsky has only showed down good hands and played tight enough. I've seen him put in a late pos raise a few times though, but he won most of those pots with legitimate hands.. If you were dogsballs, what would you do with pocket 9's on the river? And what does xmenonsky have?

[Sep 8 20:24:03] : Seat 1 : Grove has $8,230
[Sep 8 20:24:03] : Seat 2 : xmenonsky has $10,170
[Sep 8 20:24:03] : Seat 3 : carpman1 has $21,875 {BUTTON}
[Sep 8 20:24:03] : Seat 4 : redcantona has $13,670 {SB}
[Sep 8 20:24:03] : Seat 5 : dogsballs has $9,580 {BB}
[Sep 8 20:24:03] : Seat 6 : quiet man has $3,010
[Sep 8 20:24:03] : Seat 7 : portfolio has $9,160
[Sep 8 20:24:03] : Seat 8 : adiole has $5,190
[Sep 8 20:24:03] : Seat 9 : ocallagh has $10,850

{Everyone folds to xmenonsky one off the button}

[Sep 8 20:24:25] : xmenonsky called 400 and raised 800
[Sep 8 20:24:40] : carpman1 called 1,200
[Sep 8 20:24:40] : redcantona folded.
[Sep 8 20:24:50] : dogsballs called 800
[Sep 8 20:24:50] : Dealing flop.
[Sep 8 20:24:50] : Board cards [5s 5c 8c]
[Sep 8 20:24:56] : dogsballs checked.
[Sep 8 20:24:59] : xmenonsky checked.
[Sep 8 20:25:07] : carpman1 checked.
[Sep 8 20:25:07] : Dealing turn.
[Sep 8 20:25:07] : Board cards [5s 5c 8c 6d]
[Sep 8 20:25:16] : dogsballs bet 2,000
[Sep 8 20:25:23] : xmenonsky called 2,000 and raised 2,000
[Sep 8 20:25:26] : carpman1 folded.
[Sep 8 20:25:34] : dogsballs called 2,000
[Sep 8 20:25:34] : Dealing river.
[Sep 8 20:25:34] : Board cards [5s 5c 8c 6d 3d]
[Sep 8 20:25:36] : dogsballs checked.
[Sep 8 20:25:43] : xmenonsky bet 4,200
[Sep 8 20:25:55] : dogsballs called 4,200 and is All-in
[Sep 8 20:25:55] : Showdown!

DapperGent

If xmenonsky is a good player he has to bet and overpair to the flop on the flop. I think dogsballs was expecting an autobet for him go over the top of with his 99. If it was heads up I think there's a case for xmenonsky to check an overpair behind but given he has carpman1 to act behind him the likeliest thing for an overpair to do there is to bet. I would put xmenonsky on one of two things a monster (bluff raise with a hand containing a 5 preflop or a legitamate raise with 88) or essentially nothing (bluff raise that missed or AK,AQ, AJ, KQ).

On the turn dogsballs wakes up and decides it's finally time to bet his overpair. Again the min raise is either a monster or a bluff. It's here dogsballs should have made his decision which it was and either pushed or folded, though really he should have bet the flop or reraised preflop. Once he calls the minraise he's invested almost half his stack and now has 5 BB left which is insane if he'll fold at any point of the river.

If I was faced with calling my last 4,200 on the river I would do it in an instant though I would be very disappointed if I let myself get in that position.

I think dogsballs should have reraised preflop and folded to a push. If I'm taking over from dogsballs on the flop I'd bet the 2k on the flop and probably get all in if raised. I might fold to a push from the raiser though it would be unlikley and dependant on what I had seen of him to this point. If I take over from dogsballs on the turn I'd bet the 2000 and go over the top of the minraise.

It's really tough to put xmenonsky on cards becuase dogsballs' turn bet can be easily seen as a bluff.

Dogsballs played it terribly from start to finish. You don't play that way with 99 when you have 12 x BB.

padraig_f

Me, I would've folded to the turn raise. It just doesn't make any sense to me that xmenonsky is bluffing here. It's a good flop to bluff on but he chooses to check. Now the guy first to act on the turn bets out (which is consistent with him having a hand) and he min-raises. Why would he make a move here and not on the flop?

What does he have? I'd say 88 is a strong possibility allowing his opponents to catch up on the turn, maybe a big pocket-pair, but I can't see anything that 99 beats.

NickyOD

I don't know how the hell anyone could check that flop with 99. The only hand I can see him beating on the river would be A8 which given the action is highly unlikely on such a dangerous board.

willis

Agree with fact dogsballs played it all wrong,has to call river imo though.The only hands id put xemonsky on are 88,55 or AJ-AK etc. He could have played all 3 similary. The min raise on the turn dosent necesarrily mean a monster as i think he could be playin his oppenents hand,ie dogsballs, and he is saying to himself that if dogsballs has a monster hand hed check the turn again hoping to induce a bluff.2k into a 3.8k pot is weakish,especially wit numerous draws out there. However i still think xemonsky must have either 55 or 88

AmarilloFats

PF – I don’t like folding, unless u have a very strong read. So I think a raise to 2800 would get the desired info.
This is a great flops for 99. You’re OOP against both opponents, again I would probably bet ¾ pot here, but as DapperGent said I would hope not to be in this position.
Turn another good card for ur 99 now he bets…The min raise means it’s decision time ..YOU CAN’t CALL the min raise and fold the river…I think he has to fold on the turn as he played it…..
River – well he’s tied in knots now.But I thik he can find a fold..He’d be left with 4,000 when he gets the button….
I reckon xmenonsky had AA or 88

DubTony

Don't know what I'd do with the nines at that stage, but with all the pointless info missing, this could be a freeroll; so the other guy probably has 56s or even a 47. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if he's playing a pair of nines. :eek:

I know, I know ... but I've been playing the cheap tables.

ocallagh

Thanks for all your input - i edited the history slightly, I was actually in the hand (playing xmenonsky's hand.. was watchin Xmen 2 on Sky Movies at the time..) but wanted to appear anonymous to get some genuine reactions as I know some of you have played with me b4.

Anyway, this is one of thsoe rare occasions where a decent opponent's very strange play f***s you up.. and wins them the pot

I had been playing very solid poker. I had shown 4 hands, all monsters (I did get a few nice starting hands and got lucky on a few flops). I slow played KK in late pos. I had raised his SB on the previous round with JJ and made a lot of chips out of a non-believer on a J high flop:) In addition to all this, I had also dropped a lot of hands I had raised with when I missed....

It was ridiculous play by me, but how could I put him on a hand like 99 after his check on the flop?? When he reluctantly called my raise on the turn I was certain he did not have a medium pair or an 8. I put him on 56s, but I ruled that out with his check on the river (He most certainly would have bet with a 5 here, the pot was large enough to value bet it.) I knew he was worried about his hand, and all I could put him on was A high or maybe small PP. I also knew from my table image, and his cautious play in the hand that he had me on a decent hand. I just couldn't put him on a hand he could call me with so I made a desperate attempt to rob the pot at the end.. At first I thought I played the hand terribly, but I think dogsballs shocking play contributed to my downfall...

I had QT...

Lafortezza

What was the min raise on the turn about?

willis

the min raise is about playing his oppenents hand not his own.Sure look at the majority of posts here,we all presumed xemonsky must of had a monster to min raise the turn so a very very nice move imo. And id like to pint out that i spotted it in my above post!!he he!

AmarilloFats

:eek: SHOCk.Liar. You must have thought he was a better player than he actually is/was. I genuinely feel most "players" would have put u on a big hand here.,..Posters may differ on how they would play the 99 in this situ....
But I would not put u on a bluff here ....

I can see this play working well against the right opponent...

BTW, If somehow u had of known he had nines would you have played it the same way expecting a fold...Or would u have played it differently????

ocallagh

If I knew he had 99 I'd have check/folded the whole way.. he's not a great player and I don't think he'd have dropped it.

Slow play your bluffs.. and bet the hell out of your decent hands!! Can work well against good players

Representing a huge hand is generally achieved by calling/min-raising and then value betting the turn/river when your opponent shows weakness.. That's why I min-raised the turn, I just thought he had trash and I could represent something that had him beat. It's also (normally.. not in this case) a very cheap form of bluffing.

Also when you hit a hand, and raise the hell out of it they naturally think you're bluffing your hole off..

Hectorjelly

I dont think this was played well. Its a tournament and so if someone calls a raise for a good portion of their stack they are not laying it down unless an overcard appears. He didnt bet the flop because he was checking to the preflop raiser as is normal in such situations. People min raise turns so as to more pot commit people, this is why in a cash game with a lot of money behind against a good player it can be good play as a bluff, but its specifically designed to trap people with hands like 99 in this situation.

In this case AA / KK / QQ bet the flop nearly 90% of the time, so the only hand he has to fear is 88.