Need home for my gorgeous dog

holly_johnson

Hi,

I am in an awful predicament. I have a mongrel dog (Betsy, medium height about 18" to the shoulder, think she's a fox terrier cross, beige and white will post a pic later) that I got from a rescue centre in Kildare town 7 years ago. I love her to bits, but I don't think I can keep her anymore.
When I originally got her I put a dog flap in the back door so she could get in and out of the garden during the day. She is very well house trained but is most definitely an indoor dog. She doesn't like being outside all the time.
We have since moved house and the back door is a patio door so I can't put in a dog flap. As a result she is in the kitchen all day and I suppose because she is getting older she needs to go to the loo more often. I am coming home approx every second day to find she has soiled the floor. I don't go mad about it, because I can see she is upset about it, but it is my kitchen and I have a 4 year old, so not too condusive to clean cooking etc.
All she needs is someone who is at home that could let her in and out, or someone with a dog flap.
She is the BEST dog for children, didn't get a bit jealous when my daughter was born, let her pull her ears off etc with never a growl.
Doesn't like bangers, so halloween is a bit difficult. I usually either put her in a lovely kennels in Co Meath or tranquilize her and she is grand.
I'm not sure of her age, it's anything between 8 and 11, but she is very spritely and full of energy and affection.
It will break my heart to let her go, but I don't really think I have any choice. I really don't want to put her down, so can anyone help me???

SuzyS1972

How about a small shed with a dog flap in it - I have one for my dogs as they like being out in the day.
You could put a bed in it for her and she would be " in " so to speak but could have access to the garden all she liked.
Seems an awful decision to have to make for you - perhaps this would be the solution.
She may be very distressed at being handed into rescue at her age and will have trouble being honest getting another home.
Oldies really are hard to find homes for - There are hundreds in rescue who will never leave.
Sad but true.

Lamia

Are you sure you cant put a dog flap in the patio door? im not familiar with the types of door they work in but it'd be worth a try as it would be a real shame to give up such a lovely dog.

aare

Firstly, get in touch with the rescue she came from, they usually make you sign a "contract" to inform them if you need to rehome the dog, or even to return the dog to them rather than rehoming.

That contract CUTS BOTH WAYS and places them under obligation to help you rehome.

There most certainly are ways to put a flap in a patio door, by installing a shorter glass unit and having say an 18" high pvc panel in the base of the door, but (guessing in an half educated way) this could cost €4 - 500.

How long have you given her to adapt? It might take a little time for her to learn to "hang on to it". If she is an indoor dog do you have a boilerhouse you could put a chair, a cosy rug and a catflap in?

Might solve your problem and let you keep her.

holly_johnson

Thanks for all the suggestions, didn't think about contacting the rescue center tbh, I'd be afraid that the owner would give me one of those withering "dog is for life" looks, but I suppose I should shelve my pride and ask if she can do anything. As you said though, I am going to find it hard to get a home for an oldie but goodie like her.
I really couldn't afford 4-500 to change the pane of glass in the patio door to accomodate a dog flap. I'm living in this house nigh on a year so she should be well adapted to it by now.
I already tried the shed idea, but she just sits at the back door and cries to be let in. I think she has a thing about small enclosed spaces.

Fuzzie Bear

Oh please don't let your dog go...

You can get doors for patio doors - I sell them on my site
http://www.pet-bliss.com/acatalog/Dog_Flaps.html
http://www.pet-bliss.com/acatalog/Cat_Flaps.html

Here are the full specifications
http://www.staywell.co.uk/pages/staywell.php

The only thing is, you would need to get an expert in to fit the flap as it will need skill to cut out the hole in the door.

If you want, contact me and I can go into more detail and give you a good price.

I deal with animal rescue every day of my life, so I would love to try and help you out as I know it must be hard for you to give the dog up - and to be honest, not all rescue dogs go to nice homes.... I see some dogs becoming permanent fixtures in rescue centres because no one wants to take them - especially older dogs.

And if anything, please don't bring her to the pound - they put the dogs to sleep the day after surrendering them....

holly_johnson

Fuzzie,

Thanks for the links, but they seem to be just dog flaps. The problem I have is that my back door is now a 3 pane sliding patio door. How can I cut a hole in it or replace the pane with half aluminium and glass in order to install one?

Fuzzie Bear

Ok, Dads a builder, so will ask him if its possible and get back to you ....

Fuzzie Bear

Ok, Dads a builder, so will ask him if its possible and get back to you ....

Just had a look in www.buyandsell.ie and there is a patio door for €50 if you can't cut through the 3 panes on your one

Sigma Force

Ok as people said already

No 1 if you got the dog from a rescue you are obliged to return the dog to that rescue if you can no longer keep him/her (well usually depends on the rescue of course but as far as Im away the ones in Kildare you have to return the dog).

No 2 Im sure you can fit a dog flap for less than that as Fuzzie said

No 3 Although your dog is older and although she can't let herself out you should if not already have a vet check her out to make sure there are no health reasons for her urinating on the floor

No 4 kids aren't that delicate, clean up after the dog a 4 year old is beyond the age of crawling on the floor, you can always tell the child to play in another room if he'she wants to play on the floor. I have a young child and I know kids won't mind this.

To be honest I don't think not being able to put a dog flap in is a good enough excuse to want a dog rehomed, not meaning to sound rude or uppity that's just my opinion but at the end of the day the dog is your responsibility and you have to make the decision yourself.

There are clear flabs you can get that look nicer on patio doors than the brown ones, mabey Fuzzie has them in stock.

Arcadian

E400 euro isn't much to spend on a dog you've had for 7 years !!

Have you taken her for a vet checkup to make sure there isn't a medical reason for her toileting problems?

holly_johnson

Attached is a picture of Betsy.
I understand your points about having her a long time, but I just don't think she's happy anymore, and I suppose, neither am I. I have had her checked out at the vet and he says all is well, she is just getting a little bit older. She never used to be cooped up for so long before, so I can understand that she finds it difficult to hold on. (It's not just urinating by the way)
I don't find it acceptable to have to clean this up with a 4 year old in the house, sorry, but especially not in my kitchen. I just don't find that hygenic.
I will get in touch with the rescue centre, but I would also ask that you consider her if you are looking for a pet as she is just adorable.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/holly_johnson60/Picture003.jpg

luckat

What a gorgeous dog!

May I make a suggestion? Could you pay a local kid a few quid a day to take her for a walk? That way you'll have a happier dog, an exercised dog, and a cleaner floor. And a happier you. (*Not* a good idea to give your child the idea that when one's old and no longer obviously useful, one can be disposed of. You too will be old one day...)

SuzyS1972

So sad - I think your mind is made up already and you are not even willing to try- poor dog being shunted after 7 years :mad:

Don't you think she'd be happier in a kennell in her own home than spending the rest of her days cooped up in a rescue centre ?

That said I will however try my best to see if a home can be found for her - she's lovely and looks so young

holly_johnson

SuzyS1972 wrote:

So sad - I think your mind is made up already and you are not even willing to try- poor dog being shunted after 7 years :mad:

Don't you think she'd be happier in a kennell in her own home than spending the rest of her days cooped up in a rescue centre ?

That said I will however try my best to see if a home can be found for her - she's lovely and looks so young

I don't think that's a very fair comment that I am not willing to try... I have tried to build a kennel for her, she won't go into it. She really doesn't like enclosed spaces. I have tried leaving her outside, she doesn't like it, she is a house dog. My mind is not made up, I am open to suggestions, but I have been thinking about this for a long time before now and I don't see any way around this. I would love to allow a local kid to walk the dog during the day, but that requires her being out the back and she hates that. I'm not about to give someone a key to my house.... I simply don't have the money or don't see how I can put a dog flap in a glass patio door for her. I truly do love her and don't want to let her go, but how can she be happy all day in a kitchen wanting to go to the loo, or how can I be happy coming home to poo and pee on the kitchen floor?? I would love a solution to this problem, I am not trying to simply get rid of her because she is getting old or becoming a hassle.

Hope this clears that up for you all.

FranknFurter

what about putting a doggie flap in the *wall* beside the door. thats not a big job at all!

If you surrender this dog to a pound or rescue, she will 90% never be homed, because of her age, and even if she is, the stress of leaving you after all this time, well.... dogs of her age dont take stress very well... you say she has to be sedated at halloween?..... you surrendering her will be 100 times more stressful for her.

*sigh*, if I could take her myself I would.

b

luckat

Three...four...five neighbours, my sister, my cousin and two friends have keys to my house! Loosen up, kid!

aare

Arcadian wrote:

E400 euro isn't much to spend on a dog you've had for 7 years !!

It's too much to spend on an husband you have had for 50 years if you haven't got it!

Let's keep it in the real world shall we?

Holly has posted about a sad problem for which she is desperate for a solution, anyone who is conjecturing upon and condemning the way she thinks and feels is talking nonsense because you DO NOT KNOW how she thinks and feels.

Fuzzie:

It's nice to see someone being practical, however let me explain that the patio doors Holly is talking about are three plain sheets of double or triple glazing, in teak or pvc frames, which each consist of a vaccum sealed unit worth anything between e3 - e500 that cannot even be cut down if it is too big.

So best you pick your father's brains, this bird might fly:

FranknFurter wrote:

what about putting a doggie flap in the *wall* beside the door. thats not a big job at all!

Though I am sure it isn't all THAT easy to bore a dog flap sized hole through an exterior wall.

May I remind the self righteous in Animal Rescue that the prevailing thinking among their own kind (NOT in my head...that's QUITE different ) at this time says that a person like Holly who must leave a dog alone all day should not have a dog at all (the extremists even claim a dog would be better off destroyed than left alone all day, though I doubt if the dogs would agree), and you cannot have it both ways...

madramor

its very simple you just give the dog proper shelter a bowl of water
and throw it out the back.

you say the dog dosen't like being out the back how do you know??
my dog only barks out the back when it knows there someone in
the house who will let it in.

do you think the dog would prefare:
a) spending a few hours a day out the back with proper shelter + supplies
b) being killed
c) being locked up in a cage for 23.5 hours a day in a shelter

it really is bulls**t to say shes not happy being out the back, she would
get used to being out the back in 2 weeks max.

I think you just want rid of the dog and you want someone to take it off
your hands to ease your guilt.

FranknFurter

aare wrote:

Though I am sure it isn't all THAT easy to bore a dog flap sized hole through an exterior wall.

Okay, good point, maybe not *very* easy..... but hell, if it came down to it, for my dog, *i'd* be out there with a lump hammer

Then again, I am slightly mad.......

Hey, I need to *vent* my anger, wheres the lump hammer gone again?.....

aare

FranknFurter wrote:

Okay, good point, maybe not *very* easy..... but hell, if it came down to it, for my dog, *i'd* be out there with a lump hammer

...and in the case of some walls, you would be there for a VERY long time I suspect...

I also don't think all this attacking Holly (not that you have particularly done it, I mean the previous poster among others) achieves anything except making it even harder for her to find a new home for Betsy if an alternative cannot be found.

What kind of sense does that make?

Either a person cares about Betsy, in which case they want her to have the best possible quality of life even if that means helping to find a new home for her, or they only care about imposing their will on Holly, in which case who really cares what they are saying? :rolleyes:

There is one more possibility, which is crate training Betsy by leaving her in a cage or crate, when she is alone, at least for a couple of weeks until she gets used to "holding on"???

holly_johnson

Thanks for the kind remarks aare, I have felt a little uncomfortable reading some of the previous posts.
The fact remains that i love my dog, and don't want to let her go. I don't know what to do about it, but I certainly don't want to be attacked here for being a dog hater, neglecter or whatever. I got Betsy from a shelter 7 years ago because I fell in love with her. I have cared for her for that time and have always considered her best interests. However, I cannot continue in a situation where there is poo and pee on my kitchen floor. It's as simple as that. I have asked mty husband to put in a dog flap in the exterior wall and we have looked at it. He says that the wall is too thick to put one in, that Betsy wouldn't be able to get out through it.
As for the remark how do I know if she is unhappy outside when I am not there, it is because I know my dog. She loves company. Also, the niegbours have heard her crying.

I posted here looking for advice and suggestions, not to be attacked or have judgement passed on my capability as a dog owner. Please try to understand that this is hard for me, I am not looking for an easy way out.

To Luckat: I'm delighted that you feel you can leave keys to your house with half the street and your extended family. I am not prepared to do that, so please don't tell me to "lighten up kid" because I am concerned about the security of my house!

madramor

holly_johnson wrote:

I cannot continue in a situation where there is poo and pee on my kitchen floor.

dogs cannot control their pee they can control their poo, so the dog
is either badly trained or your lieing about the poo.

holly_johnson wrote:

As for the remark how do I know if she is unhappy outside when I am not there, it is because I know my dog. She loves company. Also, the niegbours have heard her crying.

she loves company, so is the issue that she has no company in the
house or that she pees in the house.

holly_johnson wrote:

I posted here looking for advice and suggestions

leave the dog out the back a few hours of lonelyness is better than death
and she will get used to the lonelyness

holly_johnson wrote:

I am not looking for an easy way out.

yes you are

a dog that age will never get rehomed, and be murdered or locked up
all day in cage.

this is so simple, leave it out the back,
give me a list of reasons why you wouldn't do this

hadook

madramor wrote:

dogs cannot control their pee they can control their poo, so the dog
is either badly trained or your lieing about the poo.

Actually - you're wrong there - they can have problems with both. We've had several elderly foster dogs who just couldn't hold either for long amounts of time. Twas nothing to do with their training. They don't want to go in the house - they really cannot hold it.

holly_johnson

madramor wrote:

dogs cannot control their pee they can control their poo, so the dog
is either badly trained or your lieing about the poo.

First of all, my dog is well trained, this issue has only arisen over the last few months. At least 3 days out of 5 I come home to puddles of pee and poo on the floor. I am not a liar. Please keep your insulting opinions to yourself.

madramor wrote:

she loves company, so is the issue that she has no company in the
house or that she pees in the house.

The issue is the pee and poo. She has always been alone during the day while I have been at work. This was never too bad because she had a dog flap in the old house so that she could go in and out.

madramor wrote:

this is so simple, leave it out the back,
give me a list of reasons why you wouldn't do this

I don't have to justify myself to you, all you have done is insult me.

However:
1). She won't go into a kennel. I have built one and she just stands at the back door in the rain etc.
2). She won't go into the shed. As I have stated in previous posts, she has a fear of enclosed spaces.
3). It's not fair on neighbours to have a howling dog out the back all day.
4). She has been an indoor dog since before I got her. I was told this by the rescue centre. I don't consider it kind to "throw" a dog out the back when they are not used to it and the weather is getting colder.

I have said enough on this matter. I have previously stated that I am trying to do the best thing by the dog and me. Don't give me rubbish about my guilt. I am a grown adult who is capable of making these kind of decisions and my conscience is a matter for me alone, not for you to judge.

If anyone can help, thank you very much. If anyone wants to throw abuse, find another thread or victim to take it out on.

Thank you.

madramor

the best thing for the dog is to be kept with the family who "loves" it

giving it to a new home would be very painful, if you could get it a new
home

1). She won't go into a kennel. I have built one and she just stands at the back door in the rain etc.
2). She won't go into the shed. As I have stated in previous posts, she has a fear of enclosed spaces.
if its raining dog will eventually give up on trying to get into the house and go into
the kennel to shelter.
feed the dog its dinner in the kennel, to help it get used to the kennel

3). It's not fair on neighbours to have a howling dog out the back all day.
this too will stop very quickly, just ignore it

4). She has been an indoor dog since before I got her. I was told this by the rescue centre.
thats its normal routine it will soon get used to being out the back

I don't consider it kind to "throw" a dog out the back when they are not used to it and the weather is getting colder.
do you think its kind:
to rip a dog away from the only friends and family it has in the world
to kill a dog

I will keep my opinions to myself, instead I will judge you on facts
based on your actions.
dog is becomming a tiny incovenience so you want rid
ergo you are cruel

if your little girl says i don't want my vaccanation because it hurts, do
say ok if it upsets you you don't have to get it.
no, you say its for your own good you have to get them other wise
you may die.

same with dog you have to cause dog a little bit of temporary upset
so that it dosen't die by your hands.

this is so simple throw the dog out the back with proper shelter

or

any dog trainer will help you to teach the dog to go to the toilet in a kitty
litter box in the corner

Sigma Force

Another suggestion, you could replace the doors with timber ones, at least for a while?
Some dogs that are a bit clausterphobic don't mind dog runs. How about getting a Cill Dara run, expensive but mabey there are some 2nd hand ones about.

If she does get rehomed or brought back to the shelter, then please don't get any more dogs especially puppies they pee and poop a lot too.

Drastic as this sounds and a bit ott but mabey you could try dogggy nappies? They are available in Ireland or mabey the 'Wee wee' dog training pads. You can train her to just pee and poop in one area of the kitchen if she can control it enough.

I would get a 2nd opinion from another vet, it might be something that can be rectified, vets don't always get it right 1st time.

To be honest if her toilet training can't be helped ie if it's a medical problem then a rescue will have very little chance of rehoming her, it's hard enough to get homes for healthy dogs. Although occasionally a home comes along where they will adopt an oldie.

Rescues house their dogs in kennels with a run attached usually, so she will be put into a kennel environment anyway.

peasant

Hard truth (whether you like to hear it or not):

YOU chose to move to a house, with a lovely new patio door, conveniently forgetting about the needs and habits of your dog ...so it's your fault, not the dogs.

Solutions:

- get one panel of your patio door custom made to encorporate a dog flap. Can be done, but expensive.

- train your dog to do its business in a kitty litter box / on a wee-wee pad

- employ someone to take her for a walk / let her outside during the day. Professional services are available.

Doper Than U

Wow. Lots of harsh abuse here. No forum gets people going quite like this one. Here's my two cents.

I appreciate the fact that the shelter has said she's an "indoor" dog, and that she has demonstrated that to you, but.. needs must. She will get over it in time. It's so hard to rehome older dogs unless a friend takes it. I really would give "outdoors during the day" another shot. She doesn't like it? Guess what, she won't like being rehomed either. It is hugely stressful. She would cope better with being outdoors than being rehomed, that's the simple truth.

Do you have any relatives with dogs that your dog gets on with, so that they could lend you their dog for a week to see how she copes outside with company? I'd be willing to bet it's not "oustide" she hates, as much as being alone (which is possibly why she's peeing and pooing in your house when she's alone). If she does cope better with company around, you might consider getting another older dog. Sure, both of them will live out, but provided there are no health issues, it shouldn't be a problem. There's no reason why they can't come in the house while you're around.

Also, there are treatments for incontinence in dogs, as she's older this might be a problem (although you say your vet has ruled it out...).

Whatever you do, good luck in your decision.

aare

To Madramor:

I very much doubt if you can read anybody's mind let alone that of a dog you have never met (or a person). This invalidates most of your postings today.

If Holly were to follow the rest of your instructions to the letter the animal rescue associates here (and there confederates elsewhere) would be morally obliged, by there own rules, and frequent position statements, to lynch her.

To GuineaPigRescue:

If she does get rehomed or brought back to the shelter, then please don't get any more dogs especially puppies they pee and poop a lot too.

However, supposing Holly DID get another puppy?

She would hardly be the first person in this country to be frantic for a rescue (or aliens, or ANYONE) to come and collect a rescue dog she could not cope with and then get ANOTHER dog within the year, would she?

Turning this thread into a shooting gallery for flamethrowers, snipers and low flying control freaks is not helping poor little Betsy at all.

I would imagine, if anything, it is making Holly feel more hopeless and despairing of finding a solution, or a new loving home for Betsy, in an atmosphere where I CAN PROMISE YOU, at least one family member or neighbor is suggesting that it might be kindest to kill Betsy humanely.

Where do you think that is realistically going to lead?

As all the alternative doors are slammed in Holly's face, frequently with abuse?

I'd suggest she register and post Betsy in irishanimals.ie if I wasn't sure that they have the rope knotted and slung over a lamppost waiting for her!

To Holly

If you want to try crate training her, I have an Argos cage (bigger and less claustrophobic) looking for a worthy home that I could get over to you at the weekend as long as you haven't moved too far from Kildare. It might be useless, or it might work a miracle, but you are welcome to try.

Doper Than U

Jeez! Cratetraining! How did I not mention that!? It's how we house trained our two dogs, and it worked a treat. No fuss, no muss. It's a great method and highly overlooked because of "cage" connotations. You can't leave them in there all day and all night.. but ours sleep there all night long, and have the run of the house during the day. Totally recommend giving this a go.