Changing focus from road building to public transport

spacetweek

Is it just me or does anyone think it's ludicrous that road building gets €1.3 billion a year or whatever and we have the Department of Finance coming back to Martin Cullen saying that they think his "Ten Year Plan" for luas/dart/metro etc. is too expensive.

Such is the seriousness of the problem of procrastination on these that I really think we should have a moratorium on unnecessary road building around the country. The following are definite no-nos:

Eastern Bypass
Dublin Outer Orbital
M3 except for Clonee-Dunshaughlin section
Midlands sections of dual carraigeways - N6, N7, N8, N9

We should just finish crucial bypasses, those that are under construction or about to start. This is the shortlist:

M1/N1 Dundalk-Newry
N2 Ashbourne-M50
N4 M50-Leixlip
N6 Galway Bypass
N7 Naas-Tallaght Widening
M7/M8 Portlaoise-Cullahill/Mountrath
N7 Limerick Bypass Phase 2
N9 Carlow Bypass
N25 Waterford Bypass
M50 Improvements

The rest should be long fingered. How anyone could think that building a dual carraigeway from Mitchelstown to Cashel is a our number one priority is beyond me.

Let's shift the focus here. Divert the cash towards IE and the RPA.

uberwolf

I'm yet to get on a luas, through never being close to one station and needing to get to another station. So I'm not intimately familar with it's ebbs and flows, but every time I see it, there are very respectable passenger numbers.

So it seems that people will use an amenity when provided. And this was a half baked, lets not connect it, number.

So yes, instead of providing a network of roads for machines thats' fuel will run out in 20 years, perhaps provide a system of state owned and run transport which is sustainable?

SeaSide

From the tax take figures for roads/cars I would say that this is a very profitable line of business for the government where as public transport seems to be a loss making venture for the gov. maybe thats why the concentration? I dont agree with it but thats what I would guess is the thinking

jlang

Got to add Gorey bypass to your list, once it is built then you need Enniscorthy too, etc.

jubbly

any time i see a luas its full or at least 1/2 full. They have met all their passenger number targets AFAIK so I think it was worth the investment.

Dublin needs more Luas lines and a metro coupled with far more Park and ride outside the M50. Parking should cost peanuts for the day. That would improve getting around Dublin for everyone.

As for the motorway network, in fairness its needed although its so expensive.

Capt'n Midnight

Compared to Buses, Luas cost a fortune -and it's the equilivant of 3 QBC's
Dublin Bus have a turnover of €180m per year - free buses would cost less than the NRA spend on the around Dublin. And Dublin Bus gets a lower subsidy rate than most european cities would do. So lets throw €1Bn into Dublin bus over the next 5 years and give 1/3 of the population an alternative to using the Car, - it could be funded for on the saving on the koyoto fine we're will get otherwise - so there is no real cost. Other cities could get QBC's too but Dublin is where most CO2 is generated in traffic jams.

Another option would be Regular Buses on the M50 so people without cars could use it too, and park and ride / interconnects to other buses like at the red cow roundabout would help. - this should not cost too much , you could put the bus stop in a layby on the off ramps so the buses don't have to spend too much time off the motorway.

My other gripe with major infrastructure projects is that the construction industry has a housing boom so it's not like they need to be subsidised. Had the govt borrowed money during hard times they could have got much better roads for a fraction of the price.. Of course all the brown envelopes and rezoning land set aside for roads (housing estates on the original M50 route) have also cost us vast amounts of money.

Very roughly I reckon there are one million tax payers in this country , teachers , civil servants etc. don't count because they are paid for by direct or indirect taxes, or another way of looking at is every €1 Bn the NRA spend means a grand per primary tax payer.

D'Peoples Voice

spacetweek wrote:

we have the Department of Finance coming back to Martin Cullen saying that they think his "Ten Year Plan" for luas/dart/metro etc. is too expensive.

Why is it that people seem to think we spend a lot on transport. Just look at the government's expenditure figures(current+capital) for budget 2005!
http://www.budget.gov.ie/Budget%202005.htm

Social and Family Affairs €12.2 bn
Health and Children €11.1 bn
Education and Science €6.6 bn
Environment, Heritage, local Government €2.5 bn
Transport €2.1 bn

I rest my case!

SeaSide

VRT on Vehicles € 792m
VAT on Motor Vehicles € 437m
VAT on Repairs € 44.2m
VAT on Fuels € 315m
Excise on Fuels € 1,514m
Benefit In Kind on Vehicles € 78m
Road Tax € 581m
Total 3.8bn


we do spend alot

John_C

I'm work in UCD so I'll only speak for the route I use (N11, Stillorgan Road). The way I see it 2 simple enough things are possible.

1. The bus driver should not spend his time collecting fairs. Busses travel slower than bicycles on a QBC because they spend half their time parked. Possible solutions are a conductor, a pre-paid ticket-only scheme or free busses.

2. The amount of people who risk clampers to use UCD as a park and ride tells me that there is a demand for such a facility. The government has control over enough land to find space for an underground car park (UCD and Donnybrook bus seem obvious spots).

Victor

SeaSide wrote:

From the tax take figures for roads/cars I would say that this is a very profitable line of business for the government where as public transport seems to be a loss making venture for the gov.

Improper perception. A third of Dublin travels for €180m a year, the rest spends €1bn+ a year.

skywalker_208

you could add the N3 Dunshaughlin by pass to your list... when this is built there will be the N2 Ashbourne bypass and N3 servicing Meath....

But the train line has been lying idle for years... doesnt make sense really..