Philosophy and Drugs discussion

RedPlanet

Ok, this is in reply to a posting on another board:
the Philosophy board:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=276521
Since it's being dragged off topic i wanted to move the discussion here.
However due to the length of my post my browser keeps timing out so instead of truncating my message i put it up on a website:
I am quoting/replying to a question posed by McFiddler

http://redplanet.htmlplanet.com/index.html

scojones

I have only read half of it, but I will say to you, to come down off a bad trip all you have to do is drink a pint of orange juice. Yes it works.

Now back to the reading!

scojones

Ok, so I have tripped on LSD and magic mushrooms quite a good few times, but I haven't done so in about four years. The last trip I had was on mushrooms and it was a bad trip, at the time I didn't know all I needed was a pint of orange juice to sort me out.

The badness started because I mixed alcohol with the LSD, I thought I was down, that the trip was over, so I had a few cans of beer, but it brought me right back up, under bad circumstances though.

I went to bed as I had to be up in three hours to go on a train, and tbh, I still hadn't packed or anything so I was a bit worried and I'm sure that all of this contributed to the bad trip. Anway, lying in bed I found myself forgetting to breathe. I'd go for 2 or three minutes, and then I would be gasping for breath for about 5 minutes. It was like I just zoned out completely, got caught up in the trip, and just forgot to breath. While this was going on, I was looking in the direction of my curtains, my eyesight zoomed into the curtains and I could see how all the little fibers were tied together, but then I could see millions of dustmites, and then that's all the curtain was made up of, once again while this was going on I was not breathing. I pulled myself out of it, realised again that I was not breating, copped myself on a bit and rolled over on my side away from the curtain. Once I stopped looking at the curtain I could breath perfectly. But something else happend...

My room was in total darkness when all this was going on, my eyes were adjusted to the dark, and there was a full moon so my room was kind of light up anyway.
I could here this sound, every 3 seconds I would hear it, without fail. It was the sound a fire makes when you spit on it. I had my eyes closed and just wanted to ignore it, but I couldn't, it kept happening every 3 seconds and it drove me insane. I opened my eyes and looked up at my ceiling, and even though my lightbulb was off, it was on fire, there were flames dropping off it and when they'd touch my floor, that is the tssssh sound they would make. It looked like melting plastic. It was cool but it freaked me out, I knew it wasn't really happening and just turned over and eventually drifted off to sleep.

I haven't tripped since because I have imprinted this into my head, and i know the next time I would trip it would be a bad one also. I've just let it go too long without tripping again, whilst thinking of this alot of the time. I've told the story a good few times to people too, when we were chatting and people had stories of bad trips. If this had not have happend I would still be tripping.

Kiera

Wow. Scary shít! I’ve had my fair share of acid too but nothing bad like that has ever happened thank god!

rubadub

The orange juice thing is a myth. It may have worked as a placebo in the past for people, placebo will be very powerful with psychedelics. Telling somebody on a bad trip that you have a cure will come as a great relief to them and bring them out.

I am reading a book with a section the 60's pioneers of LSD and psilocybin, they were taking massive doses of psilocybin tablets, and mushrooms and never had bad trips, they had never heard of bad trips and couldnt even conceive that you could have one. Only after they started to do LSD did things get a bit bad, the group turned cliquey and separate. Only after they heard of bad trips did they start to have them

i know the next time I would trip it would be a bad one also

You are already in the mindset to have a bad one so. I would never give shrooms to one particular mate of mine, he is always saying he reckons he would see bad things.

i could never imagine a bad trip while out in the daytime in nature, you can walk away if stuff started to bother you, so much is going on that you have no time for a single thing to play over and over in your mind.

http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/faqs/psychedelic_experience_faq.shtml

paulthelegend

The orange juice definitly does work, but the best way to get out of a bad trip is to enjoy it, if theres someone who is nervous but sure they want to try them just remind them that within 4-6 hours normality will resume. No matter how convinced they are that the world is f*cked all they have to remember that in a few hours everything will be back to normal and they will laugh at how freaked they were. With that piece of advice you can enjoy bad trips

Playboy

Bad Trips can and do occur. The fact that you are prone to anxiety and panic attacks means that you are greater risk of having a bad trip. I don't know if Red Planet has been in the company of someone who has had a panic attack on acid but I can assure you that it is not a pleasant experience. A panic attack on acid is not like a normal panic attack. First of all you are unable to calm yourself like you would normally do. The intensity of the panic attack is many times stronger than a regular panic attack. Time becomes an issue because like I said a minute can feel like an hour. If somone is telling you that "dont worry, it with all be over in 6 hours" and 6 hours feels like a lifetime then that isnt going to help you much. People who are under the influence of lsd are in no position to try and help someone who is having a panic attack of an extreme nature. This can also lead to the panic attack or bad trip becoming infectious as people realise they are unable to deal with the problem that is occuring. The only way to deal with this as many doctors in accident and emergency centres in this country will tell you is to knock the person out with anti-anxiety drugs. Tbh I find Red Planet's pov quite irresponsible. Just because he personally or anyone in his "group" hasnt experienced bad trips or panic attacks like the ones I mentioned does not mean they wont happen. Lsd is not a drug for everybody. I have had some of my best times taking drugs using lsd .. I have also had my worst. I never get panic attacks in my everyday life but I have had them on lsd .. I have had them after years of taking lsd...I have had panic attacks on lsd becuase someone else in the room was having a bad trip. I have seen people go to hospital on numerous ocassions because of lsd. Most people who have had a lsd habit for a number of years will tell you that it has a shelf life. There comes a day when you just cant do anymore mainly becuase you know your mind isnt able for it anymore. (Imprinting can be one of the reasons)

Dave!

rubadub wrote:

i could never imagine a bad trip while out in the daytime in nature, you can walk away if stuff started to bother you, so much is going on that you have no time for a single thing to play over and over in your mind

I've never done shrooms or lsd or anything, but I plan on trying it some day. But on this, I'd be afraid to try it out in the open! Do you not lose control of yourself somewhat? You might try walk on the water or somethin! lol. Seriously though, when I try it I'd only really trust myself if I was in a padded room with nothing in it, lol. I know you're supposed to have someone sober there to mind you, but really who's gonna sit and watch you trip for 6 hours? I dunno.

I'm dying to try the stuff though.

Giblet

The topic is dodgy, I don't really want to get into "What are the effects of certain drugs, will I be grand If I take this" stuff. I'll leave it open for now.

zinc

Well like it or not people take drugs and LSD is a fine tool if used right in my eyes.

Of course Ive had bad trips myself, nobody is immune, Ive been in horrendous thought loops

but as well

I've seen the most beautiful things whilst on LSD, connected with my spiritual side on mushrooms and laughed quite a bit, as well as talked some bollox.

I've a degree in Philosophy and well philosophy is sperate from LSD, LSD is more of a personal development tool, philosophy as I percieve it is on the scale of understanding the world in all its elements.

A human is such a chaotic thing though, LSD made me realise how my fears can steal me away to dark places but also how to placate myself.

Trust me after being in the depths of an acid frenzy, you'll see a hundred sides of yourself you thought were hidden and think, my God, that was just amazing.

I always say to people, yeah people have bad trip sbut why do you think we go back?

Well when you've seen the clouds dance, a kitty stroll by in lucid detail, the trees dancing to the sounds of nature and watched as patterns emerge in the sprawling expanses of the fields before you, then you'll know why we risk it.

RedPlanet

Playboy wrote:

Bad Trips can and do occur. The fact that you are prone to anxiety and panic attacks means that you are greater risk of having a bad trip. I don't know if Red Planet has been in the company of someone who has had a panic attack on acid but I can assure you that it is not a pleasant experience. A panic attack on acid is not like a normal panic attack. First of all you are unable to calm yourself like you would normally do. The intensity of the panic attack is many times stronger than a regular panic attack. Time becomes an issue because like I said a minute can feel like an hour. If somone is telling you that "dont worry, it with all be over in 6 hours" and 6 hours feels like a lifetime then that isnt going to help you much. People who are under the influence of lsd are in no position to try and help someone who is having a panic attack of an extreme nature. This can also lead to the panic attack or bad trip becoming infectious as people realise they are unable to deal with the problem that is occuring. The only way to deal with this as many doctors in accident and emergency centres in this country will tell you is to knock the person out with anti-anxiety drugs. Tbh I find Red Planet's pov quite irresponsible. Just because he personally or anyone in his "group" hasnt experienced bad trips or panic attacks like the ones I mentioned does not mean they wont happen. Lsd is not a drug for everybody. I have had some of my best times taking drugs using lsd .. I have also had my worst. I never get panic attacks in my everyday life but I have had them on lsd .. I have had them after years of taking lsd...I have had panic attacks on lsd becuase someone else in the room was having a bad trip. I have seen people go to hospital on numerous ocassions because of lsd. Most people who have had a lsd habit for a number of years will tell you that it has a shelf life. There comes a day when you just cant do anymore mainly becuase you know your mind isnt able for it anymore. (Imprinting can be one of the reasons)

Firstly: a "bad trip" is not a medical fact, it is entirely subjective.

Playboy wrote:

The fact that you are prone to anxiety and panic attacks means that you are greater risk of having a bad trip.

You should have stated this as your personal opinion because there is no scientific basis for this statement.

Playboy wrote:

People who are under the influence of lsd are in no position to try and help someone who is having a panic attack of an extreme nature.

Rubbish, people on LSD are ideally situated to assist other people on LSD. This is because they are on the similar wave lengths. Sober people conversley are not "tuned-in", they appear judgmental, egotistical and may be a bit frightening to the LSD user; contact with them is generally avoided.
By the way what i've read of Panic Attacks states that they last no more than 30 minutes. Maybe you are confusing a panic attack with tripping on LSD?
If you've seen people go to hospital because of LSD than you are very much in the minority because any statistics or discussion i've seen for drug hospital casualites would put alcohol way way up at the top and LSD doesn't even make it on the register.
You also don't appear to understand Imprinting. This is not something that occurs to LSD users exclusively but to us all, in every single day. It's only that the LSD user becomes more conscious of this. For example: you watch tele and get exposed to certain things like ads; later when you are in Dunnes or Tescos you find yourself interested in trying such and such product, or you intuitively reach for that box of Ariel washing powder. This is an example of imprinting. Imprinting obviously doesn't just affect your shopping desicions, but affects you and me and everyone reading this in too many ways to catalogue.

CrazySka

Id agree with the poster above, in fact the best person to help someone whos not having a good time on acid is some one else whos on it, i mean can you imagine trying to explain an abstract sense of terror to someone sober, at least a fellow tripper can empathise and usually understand. the most important thing about a good trip after all is the sense of togetherness it creates (usually) among the people who are taking it while on it. the best and in my mind only way to take acid is with a small group of friends who you trust preferably outside in a nice park on a sunny day, do it early, leaving plenty of time to get back to normal before it gets dark. i always found that approach leads to a nice trip with no worries.
I never heard about orange juice bringing you down, but i know for a fact that sugar will bring you down off mushies, the last time i was in holland, the smart shop guy told us, halfway into our trip we decided to get some drink (maddest feeling ever actually standing looking at all the booze laughing our holes off), me and my mate didnt feel up to beer having been out the night before so got smirnoff ice(manky i know), we were down by our third bottle. i doubt sugar would work for paper acid though.
finally as the rest said, if you think something bad will happen it probably will and if you think this way acid is not for you, go to the music centre on a saturday night instead!

rubadub

DaveMcG wrote:

I've never done shrooms or lsd or anything, but I plan on trying it some day. But on this, I'd be afraid to try it out in the open! Do you not lose control of yourself somewhat? You might try walk on the water or somethin! lol. Seriously though, when I try it I'd only really trust myself if I was in a padded room with nothing in it, lol. I know you're supposed to have someone sober there to mind you, but really who's gonna sit and watch you trip for 6 hours? I dunno.

I'm dying to try the stuff though.

I wouldn't go near LSD again. Too long a trip and unpredictable dosages (usually far too weak, but you could get a strong one, or take a few supposedly weak ones, I also do not the whole chemical nature of it)

Home-grown/store bought mushrooms will not vary too much in potency, ones from the same "flush" will all be pretty much equal in potency. The standard 20g dose they sell in town is about right, this would dry to about 1.6g
I would have no problem sitting in a pub drinking on 1g, my mates would not even know I was on them. On that low a dose you will not do unusual things, just lie on the grass staring at the clouds, walking through a forest etc.
There are a lot of myths out there about LSD/shrooms, the usual guy thinking he can fly and jumping off buildings. Guy whos mates said he was a potato so he skinned his face off. I have heard orange juice is meant to both intensify and reduce trips.

If you are that worried get a 20g dose of shrooms and take 1/2 them, if you are ok after an hour or 2 take the rest.

http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/faqs/psychedelic_experience_faq.shtml

nadir

where's merc when you need some good troling.

paulthelegend

The idea of sitting in a padded room with someone sober while id be mushed of my face .... would definitly put me on a bad trip haha

A small group of friends in a house which will DEFINITLY not be interupted is probably the best for first timers. Parks are full of strangers but outdoors are lovely when tripping. So if youve a nice garden then all good. Turn off all mobiles, lock all doors, make a promise to each other that no one goes outside apart from the garden and that normally illiminates a bad trip.

And actually in my experiance one sure fire way ive seen people come down like a ton of bricks is getting sick. They freak themselves out, feel sick, get sick, then instantly feel 60-70% out of the trip and calm down and just mellow for a few hours completely quiet but happy.

and home grown / store bought vary ALOT ... if you grow them on white rice... they will be weak, if on brown rice flower and vermiculite they will be medium, ud want about 35g wet ... if you grow them on wild bird seed there a bit stronger... and if you grow them onto horse poo HOLY GOD are they potent, ud only want about 20-25g ... so in the stores most would be bulk spawned onto horse poo so there quiet strong. 1gram dried would make u stoned but not trip. 3grams dried you will be talking to your shoes If in doubt always just half the dosage and give it 2-3 hours and then you could take the other half if you felt like it. (but of course dried shrooms are illegal so dont do it )

I dont agree with stores in town just selling the mushrooms with NO information and to just anyone and everyone. Even in amsterdam you get leaflets with them and it just tells you about dosage and about the time to come up and where to do them etc. I think people should do a bit more research and just basically respect the mushrooms before trying them.

I seen one guy in a store in town and he was either locked or an f*cking edgit and bought 260euros worth of mushrooms (about 340grams) and they took his card and swipped it through and gave him the mushrooms and he litterally kept asking ... so do i eat a box now and a box in an hour, do i just eat them or do i do anything with them, should i eat them all in one go... now they were trying to tell him no just one box and thats it but he again was either locked or something cause was being an ANGRY drunk fool and wasnt listening. But thats why i think they should be legalised but with strict regulations like you have to give information with then etc and just like you cant serve alcohol to a severly drunk person it should be the same.

I have never tried lsd and never will just cause unless i made it myself i wouldnt trust it u havnt a clue whats in it and the strenght of each batch

chern0byl

I've never done them, but i would imagine that mushrooms are the last drug i would try. One question though. Are they like lsd..as in: do they resde permenently in your system. Its just that my future employment tests for exactly this and if they detect it then i can never work. I would never try them if that was the case.

zinc

LSD dpsent reside in your system, usual bull****. Check out Erowid for some facts as opposed to scare tactics to stop kids doing drugs.

Giblet

O.K enough of this.