Baikal MP 153 Semi Auto Shotgun

ABC

Hello,

Has anyone here any experience/advise regarding the Baikal MP153.

It is certainly cheaper than the competition. Who sells Baikal shotguns in
Ireland and has anyone an online store.

Cheers,
Frank.

Chopperdog

Hiya Frank,
I hope you weren't getting your hopes up about hearing good reports on the Baikal semi-auto cos basically i cant find much to say about them rather than STAY CLEAR !!!!.
They are a rude, crude and bloody awful article. I appreciate the fact that they may be very cheap in comparison to other makes but this cheaper price is a direct relation to their poor quality. Semi-Autos more so than break action guns require quality machining, engineering and Gas/recoil transfer for efficient operation, regretfully none of which the Baikal has. It is false economics fooling yourself that you are getting a bargain as this beast will break your heart ! In my opinion the most reliable semis are Benelli, Beretta and the Remington sneaks in there as well. Dont be fooled by budget guns and remember that a 2nd hand quality gun is much better than a brand new piece of s**t !!!!!

ABC

Thanks for that!

It's what I would call a horribly blunt answer :-), the type one needs.


I was pondering on buying the Beretta Extrema II (two). I was quoted 1650 Euro's for a 28 inch barrelled gun with 'anti kick' device installed. Beretta claim that this reduces recoil by (as far as I can remember) 40% compared to the opposition.
Sounds incredible. I own a very old double barrell and would like the capability of
3.5 inch cartridges.

What is the legal position in Ireland regarding barrell length. I would buy a 24 inch barrelled gun (or shorter) if I could get one but they don't seem to be available.
The Extrema was featured in 'Guns and Ammo' recently.

Are guns like the Benelli M1 Super 90 available/legal in Ireland.

I'm not very knowledgeable about guns in general, just picking models I would like off internet sites.

Regards,
Frank.

fiacha

i've heard a few wildfowlers in the Uk talking about the Baikal, and they seemed to be getting on well with it.

When using lead shot, i can't see the reason for 3.5" loads. If you can't kill it with a 3" mag, than you need to spend more time at the clay ground, or it's out of shotgun range. (i assume you want it for geese / fox)

If you really need a 3.5" chamber, then go for a Benelli or wait for some user feedback on the extrema II. the extrema seems to have had a number of build quality issues in the UK. This is all second hand information, so not from my own experience.

I have a Beretta al391, and it is the perfect all round gun for me.

Umiq88

i'd go for the benelli i find them better than the gas operated beretta's very nicely balanced gun and nice and light for a auto but not to light i have one with 28" barrells and thats about as short as id go and 3" mag is more then enough for anything in my opinion you can choke it thightly if you want but if you cant hit things a more powerful cartridge isnt going to help you

woody

ABC wrote:

Hello,

Has anyone here any experience/advise regarding the Baikal MP153.

It is certainly cheaper than the competition. Who sells Baikal shotguns in
Ireland and has anyone an online store.

Cheers,
Frank.

I would beg to differ have used both the semi and pump action baikals and found them great guns, my father currently has the MP153 and is a great piece of kit for the money.

People are still snobby in regards to these weapons but they are russian built and maybe not pleasing to the eye but a great preformer

Chopperdog

Frank, Just a few quick answers for you, It is my belief that the shortest legal length for shotgun barrels in Eire is currently 25" (inches). One may encounter shorter barrels occasionally on the circuit but personally I wouldn't like to have to explain to my 'super' where I got them.
The previous posts are offering good advice about 28" barrels being the best all rounder, they give the gun good pointability yet without making it too whippy or conversely the handling traits of a brush handle!
This 'amazing' feature of 40% recoil reduction is not a myth...... all quality semi's by their operational nature harness recoil gasses or energy which is normally felt in the shoulder to cycle their mechanism to eject the spent casing and reload a fresh shell thus using 'bad' recoil energy to drive the workings of the gun and also making it easier on the shooters shoulder.
You are really talking my language when you asked about the Benelli M1 Super 90. Quite simply the nicest, most durable and reliable semi I have ever shot (good looking gun too!). I bought mine at Courtlough Shooting Grounds Balbriggan. Their instructor let me try his own personal one and he gave me good advice about them. they stock them out there and are coming in around E1,350 to E1,400 for a28" multichoke, with the additional extended magazine (note;- illegal to shoot game with any more than 3 cartridges and ONLY two shells are allowed in your gun on a clay range).
If you are anywhere near the Dublin area and want to pursue this further I recommed you visit the lads at Courtlough to compare the different makes and models and even try-out various guns on site.
If you are going for a semi dont fall for the negative bias that some old stock shooters have against them. You will hear all kind of stuff like semi's not being safe etc. Remember, all guns are inherently safe, it's the nut behind the butt that causes the trouble! Safe gun handling applies to all categories of firearms and once adhered to there is no plausible reason why semis can be deemed more dangerous than other classes of guns. Sorry for having a rant about this but I've had too much crap from ill-informed and ignorant so called shooters about semis not being safe bullsh*t; and this coming from some men with whom I refuse to shoot with because I value my life!!!! sorry All , got it off my chest and feel alot better now...........
Frank, hope this has been of aid to you and get back to us if we can do anymore for you,
Cheers, Chopperdog

Flattop 15

Chopperdog wrote:

Frank, Just a few quick answers for you, It is my belief

that the shortest legal length for shotgun barrels in Eire is currently 25" [/QUO(inches). One may encounter shorter barrels occasionally on the circuit but personally I wouldn't like to have to explain to my 'super' where I got them.

Nope,It's 24ins minimum length.And as per usual there are execptions.If you can get hold of a Winchester 1897 "trench broom"which was issued to the RIC in the 1920's they were 16in barrells and are legally liscenseable here.

The previous posts are offering good advice about 28" barrels being the best all rounder, they give the gun good pointability yet without making it too whippy or conversely the handling traits of a brush handle!

Again a matter of opinion and taste.Geffory Bothryood proably one of the UKs greatest shotgun experts,tipped more towards the lower end of things towards 25ins if I remember correctly.Find what works for you the best.

magazine (note;- illegal to shoot game with any more than 3 cartridges and ONLY two shells are allowed in your gun on a clay range).

True on the game shooting,it does not apply to piegon or crows or vermin.IE anything NOT mentioned as a protected species in the wildlife act.yet I have shot with my 10shot remmy1100 on numerous flapper shoots with it fully loaded and no one complained,ditto for DTL.


If

you are going for a semi dont fall for the negative bias that some old stock shooters have against them. You will hear all kind of stuff like semi's not being safe etc. Remember, all guns are inherently safe, it's the nut behind the butt that causes the trouble! Safe gun handling applies to all categories of firearms and once adhered to there is no plausible reason why semis can be deemed more dangerous than other classes of guns. Sorry for having a rant about this but I've had too much crap from ill-informed and ignorant so called shooters about semis not being safe bullsh*t; and this coming from some men with whom I refuse to shoot with because I value my life!!!!

AMEN to that!!This is still a holdover from the old "Market hunters"of the previous centuary.These were people who made a living of large bags of game and used obvisouly the best tool for the job to make ends meet. Needless to say considerd "dashed unsporting" Not to mind that both the pump and semi were a "Dammed Yank invention",which was madecheaper and quicker than any bespoke double.So of course it was looked down upon.
In reality once you understand how a semi or pump works they are as safe as a broken open double.

Right back to the Baikal, some useless info on it.it mightnt be pretty,but it is used by the Russian SPETNATZ/FSB Alpha teams [their version of the SAS] as a close quaters weapon.So it must function pretty reliably,also it is theonly semi auto that can be "cut down" to a pistol size without major modifications to it's recoil system.Not one shot gun ASFIK can lay claim to that in the west.all ours are expensive custom creations.

woody

Flattop 15 wrote:

Chopperdog wrote:

Frank, Just a few quick answers for you, It is my belief

Nope,It's 24ins minimum length.And as per usual there are execptions.If you can get hold of a Winchester 1897 "trench broom"which was issued to the RIC in the 1920's they were 16in barrells and are legally liscenseable here.






Again a matter of opinion and taste.Geffory Bothryood proably one of the UKs greatest shotgun experts,tipped more towards the lower end of things towards 25ins if I remember correctly.Find what works for you the best.






True on the game shooting,it does not apply to piegon or crows or vermin.IE anything NOT mentioned as a protected species in the wildlife act.yet I have shot with my 10shot remmy1100 on numerous flapper shoots with it fully loaded and no one complained,ditto for DTL.


If
AMEN to that!!This is still a holdover from the old "Market hunters"of the previous centuary.These were people who made a living of large bags of game and used obvisouly the best tool for the job to make ends meet. Needless to say considerd "dashed unsporting" Not to mind that both the pump and semi were a "Dammed Yank invention",which was madecheaper and quicker than any bespoke double.So of course it was looked down upon.
In reality once you understand how a semi or pump works they are as safe as a broken open double.

Right back to the Baikal, some useless info on it.it mightnt be pretty,but it is used by the Russian SPETNATZ/FSB Alpha teams [their version of the SAS] as a close quaters weapon.So it must function pretty reliably,also it is theonly semi auto that can be "cut down" to a pistol size without major modifications to it's recoil system.Not one shot gun ASFIK can lay claim to that in the west.all ours are expensive custom creations.

Flaptop they use also a klashnivkov version of a shotgun which can be got here it think it is a Sagia Ithmatzh something like that

Chopperdog

Pardon the pun flattop but I am sticking to my guns on this one regarding the two shell only rule in semis on a clay range. I realise that you may have put 10 into your Remmie but we have to learn to differentiate between what one can physically do and what one is actually permitted to do.
There is a ruling governing all shoots and grounds under the affiliation of the I.C.P.S.A. and the British C.P.S.A. that for reasons of safety only two shells may be inserted into a semi or pump gun.
Trust me, I have alot of experience on shooting ranges and have seen a number of occasions involving in-experienced (or simply stupid) people about to return guns to the rack with a cartridge up the spout, simply because they had too many shells loaded for the amount of targets they were going to encounter(2). In the heat and excitement of our sport it is unfortunately too easy to loose count of shots fired and ditto how many remain in the gun, thus make it easier on the poor brain and safer for others around the shooter by only having two shells loaded at any time.
In any clay discipline only 2 shots max per target is allowed, so why bother having 10 ready to go ???? I don't want to hear the old classic that it saves time reloading, 2 seconds will do that for anyone and also gives the peace of mind to the squad that the only loaded & live gun is the one held by the person whose turn it is to shoot. Don't mean to be a narky git, but why court danger in an area that can be easily avoided???

fiacha

some comments about the Baikal nabbed from the Uk Wildfowling forum.

"The reason I suggested considering a Baikal is that a friend of mine also bought one. Apart from the instruction manual there is very little else to laugh at.Its dirt cheap and very robustly made with no frills.(the gas port adjustment for instance is manual) The quality of the steel is excellent even if the finish is a bit rough in places. Baikal philosophy seems to be to polish the parts that need it and not the rest. As a true gas operated gun its recoil attenuation is better than a Benelli and the trigger pull is an improvement on my xtrema.Its balance could be better but with the price differential you could get it balanced by Purdeys and still have lots of dosh left. Myself and my friend have shot a lot of clays together. My Beretta Xtrema has never hung up but neither has his Baikal and the wildfowl he shoots with it is just as dead. If I was in the market for another 3 1/2 " 12 guage I`d buy a Baikal"

Terrier

For around €1100 you can have Remington 11-87 which has served me well for the last few years with no issues.

11-87

I have also owned a Baikal O/U for over 8 years, and it has never caused me any problems....

Flattop 15

Chopperdog wrote:

Pardon the pun flattop but I am sticking to my guns on this one regarding the two shell only rule in semis on a clay range. I realise that you may have put 10 into your Remmie but we have to learn to differentiate between what one can physically do and what one is actually permitted to do.

Well no one has never asked me about it or asked me not to.Maybe I should have mentioned that they are flapper shoots that I go to.I am really not into formal clay shooting.

Trust me, I have alot of experience on shooting ranges and have
seen a number of occasions involving in-experienced (or simply stupid) people about to return guns to the rack with a cartridge up the spout, simply because they had too many shells loaded for the amount of targets they were going to encounter(2). In the heat and excitement of our sport it is unfortunately too easy to loose count of shots fired and ditto how many remain in the gun, thus make it easier on the poor brain and safer for others around the shooter by only having two shells loaded at any time.

Well, stupid is as stupid does.If you havent got the brains or the displine to clear your weapon before you leave the firing line even if you shoot straight tens for the first time in your life,or cant count your shots.Should you really be using a gun??Everyone breaks their gun after a round,why would it be so difficult to lock your gun out of battery and check the mag content.HINT I even changed my mag follower to high viz Orange followers on all my guns to even make sure that I can see a empty mag.Dunno why the manufactures dont do this from the factory.

In any clay discipline only 2 shots max per target is allowed, so why bother having 10 ready to go ???? I don't want to hear the old classic that it saves time reloading, 2 seconds will do that for anyone and also gives the peace of mind to the squad that the only loaded & live gun is the one held by the person whose turn it is to shoot. Don't mean to be a narky git, but why court danger in an area that can be easily avoided???

Well, I have shot and run some matches of the flapper kind called flighting birds,where the clay traps dump out in a steady stream ten clays per two guns.The guys with the doubles and three shot semis really have to work,where I just have to shoot.As for squad shooting,I have never had any trouble on a DTL or skeet line,of locking it back out of battery with the saftey on and moving to the next position.
As for being dangerous,well,dont ever go to a practical shotgun match then.Ten rounder shotguns are the norm,and you have to run,jump,crawl,etc with a loaded gun.However you do have a saftey officer right behind you to make sure you dont do anything really daft,like leaving live ammo in the gun before you clear the course.So maybe I am a step ahead on the clay shooting saftey?? Again maybe it is just me but I DO find it damn distracting having to reload and fiddle around with stuff on the line.10 in the mag,I just have to put it in battery and knock the saftey off,fire one or two,jack back the battery,put the saftey on,and move to the next station. I do take your point on saftey tho.

Woody,
You mean the Saiga 12,or 20 or 410.
It is an AK on steroids.Very reliable,and fun to shoot,I have shoot skeet with one Along with it's Italian counterpart the SPAS15.Gimme the Saiga anyday.Only trouble is here with our 24in law it makes them abit long in the swing.Great practical shotgun,or fun gun or "attitude re adjuster".But a bit tedious to lug around on a mud flat or rough shoot.