Kernan complains about abuse from fans

Mighty_Mouse

an articel from todays indo:

ARMAGH manager Joe Kernan has called on genuine football supporters to band together in an effort to eradicate what he describes as "a serious and dangerous increase" in the level of abuse hurled at players and managements.

He has also urged the GAA to ensure that tickets are allocated so that substitutes and management are surrounded by supporters from their own county, rather than finding themselves being abused and taunted by rival supporters from close range.

Kernan was angry on Saturday when some Laois supporters, who were seated directly behind the Armagh management, kept up a vocal barrage right through the game.

"It was absolutely disgusting. I've been in involved in this game a long time and I'm not exactly a shrinking violet, but I was shocked by the vulgarity and the level of venom directed at us," said Kernan.

"A friend of mine and his family, who were in the Hogan Stand, asked to be moved because they couldn't put up with what was being said. Fair play to a steward - he found them different seats, but the fact that they had to move is a sad commentary on the way things are going," said Kernan.

However, a Laois supporter, who contacted the Irish Independent yesterday, told a similar story only in this case, Armagh fans were the guilty parties.

He said the level of intimidation and aggression was totally unacceptable and, at one stage, a steward and a Garda were called after complaints by Laois supporters that they were being intimidated by Armagh followers.

Kernan said that he despised the practice irrespective of which county was involved. He was also critical of the GAA for not taking more care with the ticket distribution.

"I don't understand why a couple of hundred tickets can't be given to the competing counties so that subs and management have their own people near them. It makes perfect sense, but it doesn't seem to be happening, certainly not where Armagh are concerned anyway," he said.

There was a particularly ugly incident during the Armagh-Tyrone Ulster final replay when Armagh wing-back Ciarán McKeever was attacked as he made his way to the substitutes' bench on the Hogan Stand after being sent off.

Peter McKenna, the Croke Park Stadium Director, explained that every effort is made to surround substitutes and management with supporters from their own county, but that it wasn't always possible for games that didn't attract a very big crowd.

"When tickets go back out for general sale, it's impossible to dictate where they will go. We're conscious of trying to avoid having supporters too close to the subs and management teams from other counties, but unfortunately it happens sometimes, as seems to be the case on Saturday."

However, the good news is that this will be the last year that substitutes and managements will be directly exposed to supporters. New covered dug-outs are to be built during the close season and will be in operation next summer.

"We're consulting widely to make sure everybody is happy with them," said McKenna. "We think it's the best way forward because we're conscious that there has been some difficulties."

While Kernan welcomed the news of the new dug-outs, he believes there's a wider malaise which genuine supporters should tackle.

"No question about it, the level of abuse and the sheer vulgarity has increased dramatically in recent years. It might even be confined to football because I heard none of it at the Galway-Kilkenny hurling game on Sunday and it wasn't as if that game lacked intensity.

"Maybe hurling supporters are a different breed. Both Kilkenny and Galway people seemed content to back their own teams rather than abuse the opposition and those in charge of them."

Kernan wants genuine supporters to make it clear to trouble-makers from their own counties that they won't tolerate having the opposition abused.

"I wouldn't repeat some of the stuff that was said to use on Saturday. It was unbelievably vulgar. I'm not saying Armagh fans are angels either, but as far as I'm concerned anybody who abuses the other side is a trouble-maker. I would like to see decent supporters call these people to order - it's about the only way this horrible practice can be stopped.

"The danger is that if it continues, it will create a very nasty atmosphere on the stands and terraces, which is the last thing we want.

"The fact that GAA supporters have always been able to mix and mingle before, during and after games is something that we should be proud of and it would be dreadful if anything were allowed to interfere with that."

I agree with him. It's tough to stamp out though. Especially with lower attendance games. The only way IMO is to breed a culture similar to the non-smoking brigade whereby nowadays if you attempted to light up a cigarette in a pub you would be quickly told where to go. We need to foster an element of self-policing where nearby fans tell anyone causing trouble to behave themselves. It should be acceptable to boot guys out for consistent levels of abuse also. Maybe we should have highly trained stewards taking care of this. Once people start gettin thrown out and banned for abuse it would stop I think. Imagine the shame of being banned from croker for abuse!

Lemlin

There's no doubting that the levels of abuse are getting worse. Must say, I've had no problems with Armagh fans in the past but I have seen an element of their support giving the Gardai in Clones plenty of problems in the past.

Tyrone are probably the most arrogant supporters I've seen. For example, one girl started roaring abuse at me and a group of lads who celebrated the Cavan goal against Tyrone this year. It wasn't as if we said anything to incite her, she was just losing the head because she couldn't believe Cavan were winning. She then went on to cheer when a Cavan player was carried off injured.

Over the years though, I've seen Tyrone supporters do everything from trashing cars to breaking windows though. Perhaps its the fact that they're coming into a different country and usually the Gardai prefer to give them a slap on the wrist and send them home than press any charges.

Every team is always going to have a few scumbags following them though. Its when that scumbag element becomes the majority that we need to worry and, at the moment, things are going that way for a few counties.

Culchie

Lemlin wrote:

There's no doubting that the levels of abuse are getting worse. Must say, I've had no problems with Armagh fans in the past but I have seen an element of their support giving the Gardai in Clones plenty of problems in the past.

Tyrone are probably the most arrogant supporters I've seen. For example, one girl started roaring abuse at me and a group of lads who celebrated the Cavan goal against Tyrone this year. It wasn't as if we said anything to incite her, she was just losing the head because she couldn't believe Cavan were winning. She then went on to cheer when a Cavan player was carried off injured.

Over the years though, I've seen Tyrone supporters do everything from trashing cars to breaking windows though. Perhaps its the fact that they're coming into a different country and usually the Gardai prefer to give them a slap on the wrist and send them home than press any charges.

Every team is always going to have a few scumbags following them though. Its when that scumbag element becomes the majority that we need to worry and, at the moment, things are going that way for a few counties.

Hand on heart, I haven't seen any scumbag element at a Connaught match yet ... high spirits yes ..... damage to people or property never.

My first experience of this was also against Tyrone supporters when Mayo beat them in 1989 semi-final.

Seems to be much more prevalent in Ulster football, even at club games.

Lemlin

Seems to be much more prevalent in Ulster football, even at club games.

I don't think you can single out Ulster games there. I can't remember exactly what teams but last week, in a match in Kerry, the Independent reported that a referee had to be escorted from the pitch.

I've also seen alot of trouble at Meath-Dublin games. I've mentioned this before but the worst supporters I've seen were in Kells in '97 when the Cavan supporters travelling back to Cavan were barricaded with eggs and had their cars spat at. How we enjoyed our revenge this year by beating them off the pitch!

And I'm happy to say that Cavan supporters didn't resort to the same childish tactics as the Meath cars travelled home from Clones through Cavan.

Culchie

For God's sake Lemlin, don't be so defensive all the time.

I said more prevalent, I'm not singling out Ulster teams out of any vendetta, but it is a common occurence at Club football matches.

Incidents happen in every county in Ireland, it is a common occurence in Ulster Football, surely you can't deny that?

You have a job waiting for you with the Ulster Council methinks, you certainly fly the flag !

Blackjack

Hate to say it, but I think Culchie's right here. I would say it's specifically some of the teams from the 6 counties as opposed to any issues with Cavan, Monaghan or Donegal.
It is a horrible element in any sport and as Mighty Mouse said something of the anti-smoking lobby is required, although to be fair on the very few occasions (2) I've ever witnessed anything there has always been someone who would tell the guilty party to STFU if it was going beyond banter.

BigCon

Ok, I was at the game on Saturday and was sitting almost beside Joe Kernan (right behind the Armagh team doctor). See picture below proving this!

I have to say that I did hear about 3 or 4 times abuse was hurled at Armagh in general that was over the top (e.g. calling them scum etc).
I was embarrassed at this and at one point Joe turned his head around and started shaking it in disapproval (couldn't blame him really).
However the biggest incident (that I saw) was when Aaron Kernan was substituted and stood beside his Da (shouldn't have been there, players/subs have to go up into the stand).
Someone shouted something (can't remember what it was now) and when Armagh scored the next point he turned around and with his fist in the air shouted something along the lines of "**** ye, ye bastards".
This resulted in a barrage of insults etc being hurled back at him - he then made a "zip it" sign across his mouth...

Now, a few things struck me about the whole thing:

(1) As said above, why are tickets given to opposing fans right behind the management of the other team? I couldn't see a lot of the game because of these guys standing up so much (as their entitled to do, but you can see how this would aggravate some people). Croke Park/GAA need to sort out the ticketing and the fact that the people seated behind the management can't see a lot of the game - I ended up looking at the big screen a lot instead of the back of the Armagh team doctor :rolleyes: ).

(2) While I accept that hurling abuse is wrong (disgusting that it has creeped into the GAA so much) it will happen, however players/management should be above it and not react to it. This is especially true when the team in question is winning by 10 points.

(3) If a soccer player reacted in a similar fashion he would be accused of incitement and probably be fined/banned for some time.

(4) I'm not holding a grudge over this and wish Armagh the best of luck for the rest of the championship, just hope their a bit more humble in victory in future (if they win any more games, that is )

Flukey

You'll always get trouble makers, but we rarely see them at GAA matches. You'll get people mouthing off but you just ignore them and keep your own mouth closed and focus on the game. You get the normal sort of thing where certain fans seem to think that anything the ref gives to the other team is wrong and at every free their own team gets they say "About time." I was in the Hogan Stand on Saturday and there was something going on and some police and stewards there. I kept watching the match myself, but maybe it was what Joe Kernan was referring to in his piece about friends having to be moved.


He is right about having your own fans around your team and officials. That makes sense. Another thing they should do, although we rarely get tunnel incidents between teams, is have one team use one of the Cusack Stand dressing rooms and one use the Hogan Stand ones in each match, instead of doing what they do currently, having the first match teams use the Cusack Stand ones and the second match teams use the Hogan Stand ones.

Big Pat

Mighty_Mouse wrote:

an articel from todays indo:


"A friend of mine and his family, who were in the Hogan Stand, asked to be moved because they couldn't put up with what was being said. Fair play to a steward - he found them different seats, but the fact that they had to move is a sad commentary on the way things are going," said Kernan.

'Fair play to the steward'
Rubbish!
If he was doing his job properly he would have got the abusers out of their seats and left the family to watch the game in peace.
Does it or does it not say on the tickets, co-operate with the stewards!
Scoury scummers are allowed to get away with anything nowadays and law abiding people are the victims.
Your friend should not have even considered asking for a move.

Flukey

Well if it was the same incident, the Gardaí were there for a while. Maybe the troublemakers were moved too. The report doesn't say they weren't. I don't know. I was concentrating on the match.

Triton

For God's sake Lemlin, don't be so defensive all the time.

I said more prevalent, I'm not singling out Ulster teams out of any vendetta, but it is a common occurence at Club football matches.

Incidents happen in every county in Ireland, it is a common occurence in Ulster Football, surely you can't deny that?

You have a job waiting for you with the Ulster Council methinks, you certainly fly the flag !

But you did single out Ulster teams. Ulster was the only province you mentioned. I realise its a common occurence in any county in Ireland but why say it occurs more commonly in Ulster games? Have you been to Ulster club games?

I've been to games in counties all over Ireland and I've seen far worse in some counties (Leinster ones which I won't mention) than I've ever seen in any Ulster club game.

Waylander

Triton any post I have seen from you is always a flame. Give it a break and stop mouthing off.

Culchie

Triton wrote:

But you did single out Ulster teams. Ulster was the only province you mentioned. I realise its a common occurence in any county in Ireland but why say it occurs more commonly in Ulster games? Have you been to Ulster club games?

I've been to games in counties all over Ireland and I've seen far worse in some counties (Leinster ones which I won't mention) than I've ever seen in any Ulster club game.

"more prevalent than" implies that it does happen elsewhere, and I do recognise that, as also explained in succeeding posts.

Why don't call back under the stone you came from and fight with your shadow there. No time for trouble makers here pal, stick to your playstation, it's probably your only friend.

Lemlin

"more prevalent than" implies that it does happen elsewhere, and I do recognise that, as also explained in succeeding posts.

Why don't call back under the stone you came from and fight with your shadow there. No time for trouble makers here pal, stick to your playstation, it's probably your only friend.

Clam down there lads. I don't think his post is a flame and everyone is entitled to their opinion. Fact is Culchie you did say it was "more prevalent" in Ulster games which means it does happen elsewhere but happens more in Ulster games.

Like Triton pointed out, I'm wondering how you came to this assumption?

stevemac

I was sitting abit behind you on saturday so big con. And i agree with you. But i have one point to make. It was actually just 1 laois supporter who was giving Joe abuse. He was also the main guy who was complaining and shouting when the selectors and fans in seats in front of him stood up. I couldn't believe i was hearing this a$$ telling us all to sit down, bloody idiot. With what he said to Joe, When arron was taking off he said something like "come back to daddy etc" and earlier in the game when laois got a free he ask'd joe if we was going to appeal the decision, and during the game he called armagh scumbags on a lot of occasions. [he left early btw, no surprise there]

On the tickets, i got my ticket from ticket master so if they get those tickets then its random who's going to get them.

Just a note on sitting behind selectors. I was sitting right behind the derry selectors the previous game. I was roaring and shouting during the game, nothing bad, but at the end of it one of the selectors turned around and talked to us for a minute or 2 and shook our hands.

Danno

That Laois "supporter"...

Not a Laois Supporter, but probably a armchair-can-of-bulmers-drinking-fool that decided to actually attend a game for once in his life.

I can voice for 99.99% of my county folk that this scumbag's actions are a total embarrasment to Laois and the wider GAA audience.

To all Armagh people: I on the behalf of my county offer our sincerest apologies. I hope that some night in the streets of Portlaoise that the aforementioned fool gets the thumping down a dark alleyway that he truely deserves.

Pity a Garda did not have him removed and shown some batton lessons.

Danno

PS: BigCon!

I can see myself on top of the hill in that Photo!