Theoretical Physics; UCD/Trinity?

JackKelly

Sorry to bung up the forum with a boring thread like this, but i only have a few days to decide. Just got my l.c. results and offers over the last week, and suprisingly, things went better than expected. I now have the option to do theo physics in either UCD or Trinity. But i don't know which to choose.

My plan from 5th year was to do Theo Physics but as time went on, it seemed it would be too difficult to get. I than sort of aimed for science in general. I decided that i'd put theo physics down first on my CAO anyway, and than science with the intention that i could drop if i wanted.

So my choices went like so:

1. Theorectical Physics - TCD
2. Theorectical Physics - UCD
3. Science - TCD
4. Science - UCD

Now, turns out i got 500 in the L.c with an A2 in physics and a B2 in Maths and i ended up getting my first choice...which i wasn't expecting.

So, what i want to know is,

1. Which college is better for Physics and which is a "better" degree?
2. What can i expect with theo physics? difficulty and commitment wise!?
3. If its not for me, could i change to do general science? and if so, which college would give a better general science degree.

basically what would you do in my situation?


Wasnt sure if this should do into the education section, but if i put it in UCD, i'd get UCD answers, and in TCD, TCD answers. So if it has to be moved, sorry! and please do so.

ApeXaviour

1. Trinity, but maybe I'm biased.
2. Difficulty and commitment in abundance, more than most other third level subjects especially in later years.
3. Yes but only very soon on. Or you could switch to physics, astrophys or comp phys after second year (beginning or repeating third year). Trinity again no doubt (but refer to above bias quote).

Civilian_Target

1. Trinity. I was planning to do this myself when I finished Leaving Cert but ended up in the UK instead. Trinity has a much better reputation as a physics dept. in Ireland [edit]AFAICS[/edit], and seems to be much more active too.
2. Its hard. You better like physics and maths because you'll see a lot of it. Be prepared to encouter a substantial amount of stuff you may never understand...
3. Theoretical physics is unquestionably a better degree, but its unlikely you'll be able to bail out of it. Either way, you'll know within a year if you don't like it....

nesf

You really should have just applied to UCC if you wanted the best


Ok, no seriously, I've heard good things about both colleges and tbh, I would think that either would be good. I'd argue that your choice of undergrad is not really that important compared to you choosing the correct college for your postgrad. It's at postgrad level that the different colleges differ a lot, and even then it's down to the topic you want.

I would definitely tell you to not confuse entry points with quality of course. Just because a course has high points doesn't mean it's better than other courses of the same type.

Oh, and it's fine to post here about this. I can appreciate you wanting a neutral viewpoint.

JackKelly

thanks nesf. i need neutrality!

thankfully, i do like both physics and maths. I've always wanted to do a physics related degree. I can imagine the difficulty but i'd be more than willing to give it a try. I know a lecturer in trinity who has a theoretical physics degree so i might go in and have a chat with him.

Thanks for the info guys

nesf

Not a problem.

The thing I'd say to you to keep in mind is that physics in LC and physics as a degree bear little to no simularity. But if you like maths a lot then you should be fine.

Physics at third level is very maths heavy, actually, in my experience english was a rare sight tbh! But it is very interesting and the mathematics, while quite abstract in some areas, tend to be doeable.

I'd go on about the need for a "physical intuition" but I can't remember how big a role experimental research is at undergrad level in Trinity or UCD.

sean_0

It's been a while since I did the LC but as far as I can remember; if you are offered your first choice in the first round, that's it - you have to take it. You don't get to choose from your list of ten - i think.

I'm pretty sure that the only way you could end up with a choice is if you got a lower preference course and were offered a higher preference one in a later round of offers.

Is this right? If it is it means that your choice is already made. Enjoy!

graphene

In the 1st year of the Trinity theoretical physics course you will be expected to do 2/3 of the full maths degree as well as most of the physics course for general science (they will do 2 other subjects, in my case chem and maths, instead) there will also be 3 hours of lab work a week as well as general assignments to be done in your own time
After first year as far as i know the percentage of physics in the course will increase but maths courses are also done.

I know quite a few people transfer out of this course anually, usually to maths or general science 1st year or to experemental physics in 3rd year

hope this helps

SéamusK

Just finished first year theoretical physics in Trinity, going into second year Maths. I'm not going to say that Trinity is better than UCD or vice versa, because i have only seen how things work in Trinity.

But the course in Trinity is a very good course. A lot of hard work too, but once you enjoy the work isn't really too upleasent an expeience. You have to love maths. And be prepared for new maths, if you're not interested in proving that x+z=y+z => x=y then you're probably not going to be a huge fan of algebra or analysis. Go to the maths dept website and have a look at the sylabus for the course.

You didn't mention a result in Applied Maths. If you haven't done that, then maybe you should get the leaving cert book and familiarise yourself with that course. It will help with mechanics, regarded by many as the hardest part of the course in Theoretical Physics (for 1st year TCD anyway). You can get by without Applied maths though, I and many others did, but there's no harm in improving your chances of doing well in a hard subject.

You will hear a lot about the number of people who change courses. Some of it is because people can't handle the course, but mostly it's because people either become more interested in the theoretical and abstract side of things, or the practical experimental side of things. And by all accounts the college are good to facilitte those who want to change. But don't let all the talk of how hard the course is (there was a lot of that bs going about when i started) worry you.

Those are my musings on what the course is like in Trinity, seems like that's where you're going to be going if it was your first choice. The best of luck to you what ever you decide to do.

Vordaci

Personally, i feel that both TCD nd UCD are experimental physics courses in the guise of theo physics. Imo NUI Maynooth, or QUB r the best places u'll find on the island.

ghostchant

I'm going into 2nd year T. Physics in UCD, and as far as I know, I have the option of going into general science at the end of this year.
I haven't a clue what the Trinity course is like, but so far I've enjoyed the UCD course.

rainbow kirby

Just to warn you... 2nd year is tough. Be prepared to work VERY hard this year.

nesf

rainbow kirby wrote:

Just to warn you... 2nd year is tough. Be prepared to work VERY hard this year.

It's the same in UCC. First year was a doddle, only one or two courses that were challenging.

Second year and your faced with seperate courses on Quantum, Electro-Mag, Classical Mechanics and Thermodynamics. On their own they are ok,but doing the four together is a big step up in gear from first year. I think that's the hardest part, adjusting. Once you get used to it and the workload, it's not so bad.

Suddenly your longing for all those courses you had in first year that you bitched about being too easy/elementary.

pseudonym

Vordaci wrote:

Personally, i feel that both TCD nd UCD are experimental physics courses in the guise of theo physics. Imo NUI Maynooth, or QUB r the best places u'll find on the island.

well, im about to go into 3rd year in TCD, and i can say theres a lot of theory in the theoretical physics course.... ok, admittedly we have to do a weekly lab, but surely that is the case in any college?


Also, how yould you know if you hadn't done all 4 courses? (and im not saying that you didnt, but i doubt it somehow!!)

Civilian_Target

I'm doing Physics and Computer Science in Queens, Belfast and found 1st and 2nd year to be equally tough, because I came in with Leaving Cert, my background was 2/7ths Physics & Maths instead of 2/3rds (only 3 subjects in A-levels).

I was plonked into 1st year Applied Maths (without having done LC Applied Maths) and found Vector Field Theory to be extremely tricky, but also very interesting. In fact, I have always found that, if the subject is interesting, you'll always get a mark you're pleased with in the exam, wheras if its boring, you're usually disappointed. Difficulty can be overcome with work, if you're interested in the subject. Which is why I got 77 in 2nd year Quantum Mechanics (lots of Maths) and 44 in Software Engineering (lots of simple diagrams)

And I disagree with Vordaci, the Theroetical Physics dept. at Queens is unlikely to be better than the one in TCD, but I'd be certain that the Experimental Physics is better - given our extremely shiny new labs

nesf

pseudonym wrote:

well, im about to go into 3rd year in TCD, and i can say theres a lot of theory in the theoretical physics course.... ok, admittedly we have to do a weekly lab, but surely that is the case in any college?

In the UCC single hons physics you would do a lot more lab work. It worked on an open lab system. i.e. here's your experiment the report is due in two weeks. The labs tended to take about 5-6 hours of work at a minimum depending on the particular experiment. There would be two "labs" running at once, ie a new one starting each week. So in reality you had a week of time to devote to either of them. Then there was the research projects on top of these.

Then if you did joint honours with physics and applied maths you had less lab work but more theory.

In final year you could had to take on a research project in single honours. If you wished this could be a double project, ie with double credit weighting and more work expected. If you were a joint honours you didn't do a research project.

So in essence you could do a theoretical or experimental physics degree depending on which way you chose to take it.


Personally, I think that the distinction is pointless at undergrad level. It's only at post grad level that it becomes very important. The degree for both experiemental and theoretical is very similar for undergrads. Experimentalists see most of the same theory as the theoretical guys and vice versa with experimental work. At post grad level they are barely recognisable as being the same field.

Professor_Fink

Ok, I haven't been reading boards in a while, but I'm back now. For what its worth, I did Theoretical Physics in UCD, graduating a year ago. The suggestion that UCD has an experimental course pretending to be TP is absurd. The department of Mathematical physics, is exactly what it says, MATHEMATICAL physics.

Having spent time at UCD and Maynooth, if I was choosing again, I'd still go for UCD for my undergraduate, but Maynooth is a great place to be a postgrad. This is Theoretical Physics specific, I'm not sure what other courses would be like.

For some reason Trinity undergrads feel the need to say they're course is better. The reality is that both courses are about the same level, but have different focuses. UCD would appear to be far better if you're interested in general relativity, but if you're looking for something more along the condensed matter lines, then trinity would seem to be the place.

Also if you're worried about the value of a degree from UCD, I'm currently in Oxford

PS: Do you get to change your mind about where you applied after the LC now?

Son Goku

Professor_Fink wrote:

Having spent time at UCD and Maynooth, if I was choosing again, I'd still go for UCD for my undergraduate, but Maynooth is a great place to be a postgrad. This is Theoretical Physics specific, I'm not sure what other courses would be like.

Also if you're worried about the value of a degree from UCD, I'm currently in Oxford

Is Maynooth's Mathematical Physics undergrad course good enough to get Masters in most places?
Basically, how much worse than UCD and Trinity's courses is it?
(We don't do any QFT or General Relativity)

Professor_Fink

Son Goku wrote:

Is Maynooth's Mathematical Physics undergrad course good enough to get Masters in most places?
Basically, how much worse than UCD and Trinity's courses is it?
(We don't do any QFT or General Relativity)

All the NUI physics courses are good enough to get you into a masters in most places. Same with Trinity, DCU and UL. The difference is only in the details. Theoretical physics in UCD and Trinity are more than just joint honours exph/maph. In UCD you have to take substantially more courses than the joint honours students, so you cover more. They on the other hand have to take labs.

I wasn't trying to knock Maynooth, and I really do like the department there. It's just that if you want to do TP, you probably want at least the option of doing GR, QFT and other advanced subjects, which don't seem to be offered in Maynooth to the same extent.