Exhaust noise levels

theShire

Hi all,
just joined up on the boards and have a question for you guys.

Just been pulled by a Garda for my exhaust. And No, it's not a backbox but an entire cat-back system which will be well expensive to have built from scratch.

He quoted me some law, which I can't remember, which says that it is above legal noise limits.

Personally, I don't find my exhaust loud at all and from what I've been able to find the legal level is approx. 72dB.

I have absolutely no problem changing/modifying the system to reduce noise levels but what i want to know is if there is anywhere I could actually get my car tested for the exhaust noise.

He didn't test my car at all, he just said it was too loud. Anyone think I would be right in asking that he test the noise levels before i go about changing anything.

He said he would be 'reasonable' about it and has given me 2 weeks to change my exhaust and I must present my car to him at the local station.

As I said, I have no problem with him doing his job and if I'm wrong I WILL sort it but can i be sure that whatever i do to quieten it, as much as possible, will still be within the law?

Any views/comments would be much appreciated

shagman

Do nothing...Go back in two weeks tell him you had it changed and the garage tested it at 65dB, wait for him to find the nonexistent Garda decibelmeter in the station.

The Clown Man

AFAIK if you change your exhaust from factory original it is not acceptable. I'm not sure of the legality of the whole thing but I do know that gardai this year have been told to crack down on "boy-racers" and any exhaust modification will draw the attention of the left arm of the law.

Reaver772

It seems that its 55 decibels during the day and 45 during the night. Id try running down to a hardware shop and buy or rent a decibel meter.

http://www.limerickpost.ie/dailynews.elive?id=6193&category=Daily-Sat

Funxy

Surely that figure is completly outdated. My exhaust is 75db as standard! :eek:

DonkeyStyle \o/

Just do as you're told and get a normal veh-hicle.
You're impressing no one with that kind of loud-noise-making malarky.

testicle

Funxy wrote:

Surely that figure is completly outdated. My exhaust is 75db as standard! :eek:

I doubt it ever existed as 55! Just look at the following site...

http://www.lhh.org/noise/decibel.htm

55dB is the same as a Coffee Perculator!

spoon

there is no way to get an accurate decibel reading in the open air etc, so its nearly impossible to get an accurate reading on a cars exhaust.

Turner

Big bore exhausts/straight through systems cause immense problems for people living in citys/suburbs near relief roads, hence why the gardai are cracking down on them.

Never mind the decible level law at all if you change your exhaust from the factory standard one its against the law.

Harley davidsons / subarus / lancer evo's well exceed the db level but their exhausts are factory standard, hence not illegal.

The law is designed to cut down on people putting straight through systems / bore exhausts on corsa's / micras and driving around towns and cities revving and taking off at lights as quick as possible to make the most noise.

theShire

The problem with that is that my car is an import Toyota Levin which i cannot get a factory standard replacement exhaust for, so, ANY exhaust put on my car can/will be seen as non-standard and hence will be illegal. I have been told that the only way around the noise levels is to get a custom made system- but then again, it WILL be ilegal- wont it? because it's not standard!

I've just tested the exhaust myself and it is approx 90dB at idle- so if the law is 95dB then he has no basis to fine me on noise levels, if its 72dB(EU regs) then he can- but doesn't he need to test it himself for verification??

Bluehair

theShire wrote:

I've just tested the exhaust myself and it is approx 90dB at idle-

At idle!! :eek: Sweet Jesus how loud is it when you have to go anywhere?

theShire

Fair enough- my first test was with the car parked in the drive about a foot from the garage door so major possibility of echoes messing with it.

Tested it in local Industrial estate- about the quietest place I could find- where the background noise was 65db!!

Noise levels taken at 0.5m from the exhaust tip at a 45degree angle

81db at idle
101db at 6K rpm

pauln

theShire wrote:

The problem with that is that my car is an import Toyota Levin which i cannot get a factory standard replacement exhaust for, so, ANY exhaust put on my car can/will be seen as non-standard and hence will be illegal. I have been told that the only way around the noise levels is to get a custom made system- but then again, it WILL be ilegal- wont it? because it's not standard!

I've just tested the exhaust myself and it is approx 90dB at idle- so if the law is 95dB then he has no basis to fine me on noise levels, if its 72dB(EU regs) then he can- but doesn't he need to test it himself for verification??

At 85 dBA an employer is required to provide their employees with hearing protection and at 90 dBA are required to put a sign up warning of the noise danger also. So from that just go around handing out ear muffs and slap a sign on the back and your away.
90dB is crazy! Even if you maybe can't get a stock replacement there's bound to be replacements somewhere that meet the law.

theShire

Fair point!

But the laws for workplaces are slightly different because prolonged exposure to those noise levels can cause serious hearing damage whereas a car passing you by at 90dB will have little effect.

Thanks to all for their helpfull comments and suggestions, I don't want this to become a big argument thread about modified exhausts/cars.
As I said- if I am wrong I will do what I can to reduce the noise levels from the exhaust- gonna see if any1 can fit a 2nd mid-box to reduce it, cos I love the look of my exhaust as it is.
But there is no point in me doing any of that if the garda is still gonna say that it's illegal. I think it's reasonable enough for me to try my best to comply with the law(within reason) without him then saying that the bore of the exhaust tip is too big, or that something else is wrong etc.

Alun

But the laws for workplaces are slightly different because prolonged exposure to those noise levels can cause serious hearing damage whereas a car passing you by at 90dB will have little effect.

Except for waking you up at 3am which is what the little gobsh!te who lives down our road does every weekend in his pimped up Toyota Starlet.

Borzoi

Reaver772 wrote:

It seems that its 55 decibels during the day and 45 during the night.

They're fairly 'standard' noise regulations set out by local authorities for planning permissions - if anything on the installation excedes these levels then PP would be rejected. AFAIK there are no regs for cars, though there could be European standards.

As for measuring noise - it's an expert field, there are huge between sound pressure levels (at source), sound power levels (at a distance) and how to convert between the same, not to metntion how you measrue - free field, reflective planes etc. There is also the fact that human ears are more sensitive to particular frequencies than others - giving rise to the dB(A), dB(B) and dB(C) measuring systems as approximations

In other words, it's umlikely the gards can say your exhuast is too loud, but then again, can you say they're wrong?

pauln

Found the EU directive where it lays down the exhaust noise level here. It goes through the how to measure what your noise output actually is but I can't find anywhere on it the actual max level!

Edit: And here it is in legislation, but again no level set.

setanta

Shire

I might have bad news mate - it looks like the max limit for an exhaust could be 72db

See here Section 5.4.3 - EU Council Directive 92/97/EEC

pauln

Damn they make it hard to find, 72 dB(A) makes sense.

green-blood

decibel is a relative reading in any case, just like weight but not mass, bring it in during a busy period and park as near to passing traffic as possible if they do test it...which they wont'. If its excessive fair enough but ignore rediculous posts like "its
illegal to change your exhaust" its not

stick some wire wool up there and bring it in.

Balfa

A Levin is almost a classic car now, isn't it? It must be exempt from most of the road-worthiness laws that govern new cars or something? Is it an AE86? I think classic cars are anything over 20 years old, right?

theShire

Nah- its an AE111, which is a 97 Levin/Corolla

Funxy

Theres different ways to mesure the exhaust. Which is probably where the confusion between the 70 vs 90 etc. I know on track days and it goes like this 1000rpm-4000rpm-6200rpm. And i also know my exhausts been measured as the following 78-97-104 db. I know that if police want they can ask you to bring it to a special place where they do the 45 degree measurement etc. But theres very few stations equipped to do this. I really wouldnt go to any trouble to change it unless they prove that you have to by measuring it etc. And unless your a 'boy racer' that they like to pick on im sure you wont have any trouble

theShire

Thats kinda how i see it!
they aint gonna be able to check it properly but if they can/do I WILL sort it!

And NO, i'm not a 'boy-racer', I use my car to go to and from work and usually it's parked in my drive unless i'm visiting friends or running errands! I don't spend all nite driving around looking for a race or sitting at my local petrol station revving my engine and I try to stay within the law!

Heard stories about this particular Garda having it in for young male drivers and that he can be a right a**h*le about it, so not sure if i have any chance of getting it sorted too easily.

Dagon

Cool car though, how long do you have it, and how do you find it for drive/comfort/reliability? Also what importer did you get it from? I'm thinking of getting a Levin as my next car (probably 96 to 99 model), they look **** hot

Also, is it hard to get parts if you need to replace something?

Safe driving

theShire

I love her- she's a very nice car! Mine is a white 97 AE111 Levin BZ-R with Tom's NA-R white alloys

To be honest- driving on our Irish roads isn't always the nicest because of the extremely stiff superstrut suspension up front but it's worth getting used to it! driving on the dual carriageways is great- what amazed me was that i spend the entire time travelling about 95kph- rarely hit the limit, possibly to overtake- which compared to my Astra- I used to push her fairly hard- always over the limit! I'm not too sure exactly whats happened- according to my mother she thinks that I've matured and kinda grown outta the larkin about in my car! Car is too precious to me now to be doin anything stupid!

I bought mine from http://www.southsideautomotive.ie for about 10k. Haven't had any major problems with anything so far so nothing to replace but did my own service and needed to special order the spark plugs from the UK cos my local supplier said it wouldn't be worth it for him to buy them in- still only cost me 80euro for the 4!

The next/only big thing to replace may be the entire cat-back system if this Garda pushes for it- only way to get it will be special order through a local Toyota dealer to get it from Japan.

theShire

oh yea- testing my mates 1L Polo yesterday evening we got 65dB at idle and 88dB at a fairly high rpm(not sure- didn't want to annoy the neighbours!) So, for a 1.6 sports car, the results I got don't seem too excessive

elexes

my computers running in my room make 70db from the noise ...

waaaaa

just imagine waht happens when i use speakers

but i wouldnt worry at all about it . just tell him that if he wants anything done he will need a court order as your car is unable to make a noise level breaking the limit .

Ann Elk

Borzoi wrote:

They're fairly 'standard' noise regulations set out by local authorities for planning permissions - if anything on the installation excedes these levels then PP would be rejected. AFAIK there are no regs for cars, though there could be European standards.

As for measuring noise - it's an expert field, there are huge between sound pressure levels (at source), sound power levels (at a distance) and how to convert between the same, not to metntion how you measrue - free field, reflective planes etc. There is also the fact that human ears are more sensitive to particular frequencies than others - giving rise to the dB(A), dB(B) and dB(C) measuring systems as approximations

In other words, it's umlikely the gards can say your exhuast is too loud, but then again, can you say they're wrong?

I agree - afaik the only regulation governing noise and emissions is an EU directive which applies to the vehicle at the time it rolls off the production line. That's the reason Subaru fit the 'prodrive pack' and Mitsubishi fit the 'FQ pack' as an after market addition - it's a way of by-passing this. I'm not aware of any regulations regarding noise levels beyond whatever public authority by-laws exist regarding causing nuisance.

ambro25

Just adding my €0.02 here, but @ the posters who have stated that "it is illegal to change your exhaust from factory-standard", would you care to post a source/linkie?

As, if this was fact, I'd venture that there's an awful lot of illegal cars all over Ireland and I'd hazard further that the NCT is a bit of an accomplice in testing and passing 'illegal cars'

To the OP - best of luck with the Gards, stay cool-calm-confident & don't let them overbear you ('been there before for different matter, they didn't quite get to where they wanted )