Question

kestrel

my grandad lives on an old, unused farm and has had a german shepard cross collie for about 2years now. i was never completely happy with this, because the dog is tied up in a shed and only let out when my cousin comes up, which i would say would be about twice a week. my grandad would feed the dog a typical country mixture of bread and milk/hot water, scraps from the dinner, and dry dog food.

recently, the house burnt down. the shed is untouched, the dog is okay. but my grandad is temporarily away from the house until they get a prefab or something built for him. the dog is still getting fed, but i worry that she now has even less company than before...i hate everything about the situation, but my mother is insisting that for me to have the dog taken away would break my grandads heart. he's 84, and not in the best of health.

i don't think it's fair to leave the dog in this situation. the poor thing is starved for attention, always seems overly ecstatic to see anybody and is the friendliest thing. but on the other hand, i don't want to be responsible for tipping my grandad over the edge. what would you do if you were in this situation?

there is also a peacock on the farm, but i think he's alright, and have no probs letting him stay. he has the whole sixty odd acres to himself and a loft to sleep in. he was wild before the house burnt don, and i think he'd perish in captivity. the dog is my main concern.

Advice please? (this is on the tipp/laois border)

peasant

Hmmm ...difficult one ...

Have you ever actually spoken to your grandfather about it?
Does he really need / want the dog?
Would he maybe take it inside some more, let it sleep by the fire for a while?
Could a local youngster be found that excercises the dog regularly?
Has he thought about what happens to the dog should he require care?

I'd try getting his opinion along these lines first ...

Good luck with it !

Sigma Force

It's a tough one, but it sounds like your grandfather doesn't get to see the dog and spend time with the dog anyway, although he might feel the dog is security, if the pooch is locked away that doesn't really offer him security ie from unwanted callers.

Mabey have a chat with him and see what he thinks, mabey look out for a home for the dog and if you find a good home for him tell your grandfather you were talking to someone who is interested in offering him a good home and would he be interested in letting the dog go.

Totally understand not wanting to upset the man, especially with the burning down of the house etc. But it sounds awful that the dog is so isolated, it's cruel but unintentional cruelty as Im sure your grandfather doesn't mean to be that way he just can't look after the dog properly.

The dog sounds really sociable and it would be best for the dog if he was placed in a good home now before the isolation leads to behavioural problems, if (god forbid) something happened to your grandfather in the future or he became ill then the dog might have developed negative behaviours and be more difficult to rehome.

Mabey a wee chat to him would help and see how he feels about it.

luckat

Maybe you could offer to mind the dog while your grandfather is away?

I assume that the dog is being kept as a watchdog? But with the house burnt down, it doesn't have much to guard anyway.

Tying it up in a shed all the time sounds really cruel to me. Dogs are pack animals. They need other dogs or people. Being tied up alone is like solitary confinement for them.

kestrel

my grandfather is not someone who will listen to reason. he is VERY set in his ways, and writes off any young person my age or younger as 'brats'. it's not that he's not a nice man, i've just never had a proper conversation with him in my life. a while back he had a border collie that he kept in the same shed- i started putting him in a different shed, off his chain, that he could get in and out of, but only into a grassy area about 1/4 of an acre. there was no problem with this space, he couldn't get out, and it was alot nicer for the dog, but my grandad kept putting the dog back into the other shed. he just said it was where the dog lived, and didnt listen to me.

i don't know why my grandad keeps getting dogs. it's not like he walks them or spends any time with them. peasant, he doesn't believe in letting dogs in the house. besides, there IS no house anymore, and nobody in the vicinity sees any problem with where the dog is at the moment.

Could a local youngster be found that excercises the dog regularly?

my cousins do when they go up, but to be honest, i wouldn't count on them. they see their own dog as the priority, which is fair enough, but not exactly great for this dog.

Does he really need / want the dog?
Has he thought about what happens to the dog should he require care?

i don't think so, and no.
as i said, he's a very old-fashioned man who i don't expect to take the welfare of a mere dog into account. he can't even look after himself.

he might feel the dog is security, if the pooch is locked away that doesn't really offer him security ie from unwanted callers.

i honestly don't think he has a reason for keeping the dog- i know this sounds mean, but i don't think he's capable of forming reasons for things.

The dog sounds really sociable and it would be best for the dog if he was placed in a good home now before the isolation leads to behavioural problems, if (god forbid) something happened to your grandfather in the future or he became ill then the dog might have developed negative behaviours and be more difficult to rehome.

my feelings exactly. it's why i've been trying to explain to my mother why something must be done sooner rather than later, but my whole family would see the dog as much less important than my grandad, and they would have the attitude that it's just not the priority at the moment.

Maybe you could offer to mind the dog while your grandfather is away?

normally this would be my first reaction, but i am only 19, so if i was to do this, it would have to be okay with my parents, which it wouldn't be. also, i have a dog of my own, and i'm not sure how my grandad's dog is with other dogs. the one time i had mine down with me, Molly (grandad's dog) seems hostile enough to the presence of other canines.

okay, basically, the way i see it (after much thinking) is that i can ignore the problem (which is an irresponsible and inhumane thing that my conscience wouldn't ever let me do) or i can at least get someone to assess the situation...i feel so bad doing this, because it goes against a promise that was forced out of me and will cause shame for my grandad and uncle's family-it's a very small village and i'd imagine the sight of a marked van asking for directions will not be recieved well.

so basically, i'm a coward. which is why i came for advice here. but i think i've decided now, so does anyone know a suitable shelter in the laois/tipp area?

peasant

Hang on, hang on ...

You can't just go and "rat" on your grandfather and the rest of your family and bring the ISPCA (or someone else) "down" on them without consulting them ...be that down in rural Tipp or elswhere.

The welfare of the dog is an important issue ...but so is your family.

There's all grown up people involved here, so you' ll just have to bite the bullet and talk to them and convince them that this situation can't continue.

As a dog owner yourself, you know all the arguments, you know what a dog needs.

In the end, the responsibility rests with your grandfather as the owner of the dog.

it's not that he's not a nice man, i've just never had a proper conversation with him in my life.

Maybe now would be a good time to have one?

Who knows ...he might even be willing to give up the dog in exchange for a respectable grandchild (one to be proud of, not a brat at all) that calls a bit more regularly ?

The least easy way out, I know ...but it might just be worth it

(or did I just spend too many days in Walnut Grove as a child ??)

kestrel

peasant wrote:

There's all grown up people involved here, so you' ll just have to bite the bullet and talk to them and convince them that this situation can't continue.

if i was to do that, i would have to go straight to my uncle. and i know from experiance he won't listen. i'm a child, ysee, and therefore have nothing important to say. i had a minor spat with him about 4 years ago when i found out he had caught a wild rabbit and was keeping it padlocked in a hamster cage. i got one of his tools and broke open the cage, letting the rabbit go. he laughed at me, saying i was just a kid and that there was lots more rabbits to catch (he wanted a pet rabbit for his kids, but didnt believe in buying them when they were in the field beside his house.)

Maybe now would be a good time to have one?

i can't even begin to explain the poblems with this. he is just not somebody who is into conversations, unless he has known you for the last 40 odd years. he will just ignore you and carry on like your not there. it's like you are invisable until you are 30, then suddenly, you appear. my own mother has always said the only contact she has ever had with him was when he was walking her down the isle on her wedding day.

Who knows ...he might even be willing to give up the dog in exchange for a respectable grandchild (one to be proud of, not a brat at all) that calls a bit more regularly ?

i laughed. see above paragraph.

peasant

So, no "little house in the prairie" then?

Well ..seenashow its you who's going to get hassle with the family and not me ... go ahead, help that dog !

Good luck !

and no , I don't know any organisations well enough to recommend one over another, so I can't help you there either ...

I' ll just go back to Walnut Grove ...the world is still good there ...(except for Mrs Oleson, of course )

luckat

Kestrel, if you live near your grandad, could you bring the dog for walks?

As far as your grandad not talking to youths is concerned, most people are very susceptible to flattery, even if they think they aren't.

If you start asking your grandad about things he knows about, so he can instruct you, you could probably soften him up gradually - let him think he's convinced himself to change how he treats dogs, frinstance...

You sound like you have a pretty good handle on things. If your grandad's going to rebuild the house, maybe he'd build a shed as part of it where the dog could live. If the shed had a door leading into the house...

Unfortunately, the law on animal care isn't very good. A friend of mine lives near people who keep an Alsatian in the back garden. They come out once a day and shove food and water under the wire. She says she can stand the barking, but not when the dog cries with loneliness.

She called the DSPCA, and they came and inspected, but they told her that the dog had adequate food, water and space, so there was nothing they could do.

kestrel

luckat wrote:

Kestrel, if you live near your grandad, could you bring the dog for walks?

i live on the dublin border, so no, i'm afraid not. believe me if i did, i'd walk the dog so often she would start coming to the house for it's dinner, and then i could do the whole 'ah sure theres no point bringing her back if i'm only going to be walking her again tomorrow' and then she'd end up living with us.

As far as your grandad not talking to youths is concerned, most people are very susceptible to flattery, even if they think they aren't.

If you start asking your grandad about things he knows about, so he can instruct you, you could probably soften him up gradually - let him think he's convinced himself to change how he treats dogs, frinstance...

i tried that with the last dog. there was a year where we basically lived on the farm, so i got to look after him loads, but i was trying to build my grandad up for when we would be leaving, because i knew the dog would go back to the shed as soon as we left to go home. what i found was that my grandad is simply not interested in discussing anything other than the price of bread. so we left, and the dog escaped a week later, and last i'd heard he had joined a pack of semi-wild dogs. i'd imagine he's dead now. sigh.

Unfortunately, the law on animal care isn't very good. A friend of mine lives near people who keep an Alsatian in the back garden. They come out once a day and shove food and water under the wire. She says she can stand the barking, but not when the dog cries with loneliness.

She called the DSPCA, and they came and inspected, but they told her that the dog had adequate food, water and space, so there was nothing they could do.

i'm just hoping that my grandad's dog is seen as not having adequate everything. i know that sounds mean, but i honestly believe the poor thing is miserable, so i just want her taken away.

anyway, good news, things have settled a little after the fire, and i told my mom what i was planning on doing. she didn't seem as strongly opposed to it as before, and i think she's starting to realise i'm just trying to do what i feel is best.

Sigma Force

Fair play to you, you are caught between a rock and a hard place but are still giving it a go.
I doubt there is much a welfare organisation could do , the law states that a dog must have food, water and shelter and it's a very vague law (very out dated too) so they wouldn't really have any grounds to take the dog from him.
I think your handling it very well, many people would just ignore the dilema, fair play to you

kestrel

Guineapigrescue wrote:

fair play to you

thank you! it's nice to get a little encouragment from someone, even if i dont know you!

aare

I have a little story for your Grandfather, from his own generation too.

Couple of years ago some ould fella died not far from here, and his two collie were left shut up in the shed, and fed for a few weeks maybe.

A Farmer I know (who loves dogs and hates guns) was on his way home past this place when he saw the two dogs had broken out and gone crazy among sheep, tearing them to shreds.

He had to call someone out with a gun, there was nothing else to do, but he was in shock after it.

Surely your Grandfather has more respect for, and knowledge of stock than that?

luckat

Why does your granda keep the dog, by the way?

Birdie

You mention that your grandad will only talk to people over 40. Maybe you can ask your mam to tell him your upset, or failing that you could talk to one of his friends(assuming of course he has any) and explian the story. maybe they can convince him to give him to a good home?

kestrel

luckat wrote:

Why does your granda keep the dog, by the way?

someone said, 'hey, do you want a dog', and he replied 'ara sure i may as well.'

You mention that your grandad will only talk to people over 40. Maybe you can ask your mam to tell him your upset, or failing that you could talk to one of his friends(assuming of course he has any) and explian the story. maybe they can convince him to give him to a good home?

my mother doesn't want to get involved. and i don't know of anyone who i could chat to that would care enough to say something to him.

okay, so my grandad has now been moved into a little temporary prefab type construction right next to the dogs shed...situation has therefore changed a little. i am going to go down at the weekend to assess the set-up, and i am off work on monday so ill be able to get straight through to a shelter (ie, no answering machines!) if i still feel it is the right thing to do...

Birdie

Let us know how you get on.