Do I have a right to a British Passport?

segaBOY

I have: An Irish Passport, an Irish Birth Cert. and have been a resident of the Republic for all my life,

What I am wondering is if I am entitled to a British Passport.

My only real grounds for one is that my father was born before 1949 in Ireland thus making him a British subject by default.

Since I am 17 I DO NOT have to take an allegience to the Queen if I wish to obtain British Subject status and I am wondering if I can, in any way, hold a British Passport.

Since none of my imediate relatives are British it may seem like a flimsy arguement however I always felt a certain relationship existed between Ireland and the UK which in some way may allow me the right to a UK passport,

Any help would be helpful and no comments about my political views please...

RuggieBear

My mother once told me the same, that i was entitled to a british passport as she was born before the Irish republic was declared. tbh, i'm not sure about it at all but you could ring the british embassy and see what they say.

Anyway i don't need another passport, i've already got two....

Gilgamesh

so tell me , why do you want a British passport? any particular reason?
wasn't there some ruling that if you live in the UK for a certain amount of time, you are entitled to apply for one?

segaBOY

Gilgamesh wrote:

so tell me , why do you want a British passport? any particular reason?
wasn't there some ruling that if you live in the UK for a certain amount of time, you are entitled to apply for one?

There are a few reasons, but here is a cool one,

My name on my Birth Cert is in english however I have the right to change it to it's Irish form on my Irish passport, so having done that, I can now apply for a British one with my English version of my name, still with me???

2 seperate, LEGAL identies

arbeitsscheuer

If you live in the UK for 5 years, you can apply for a British Passport, but there is no guarantee you'll get one.

Since 1946, we have all had dual-citizenship, thanks to Clement Attlee (go read a history book folks ) meaning that we are entitled to live and work in the UK. Of course, when we joined the EU this became nebulous cos now you could say the same for all the member-states as well, but at the time it was quite impressive.

I was born in England, but have lived here all my life and have Irish parents.
I have a right to a British Passport, but have an Irish one because it was cheaper (altho getting a British one would've been quicker - apparently where you are born is the most important thing, not your parentage)

Gilgamesh

segaBOY wrote:

There are a few reasons, but here is a cool one,

My name on my Birth Cert is in english however I have the right to change it to it's Irish form on my Irish passport, so having done that, I can now apply for a British one with my English version of my name, still with me???

2 seperate, LEGAL identies

so you are telling me , you think it is really necessary to have two IDs in this world? What are you? trying to blow up somethign and leave the country on your other ID.
Wht do you think they have Photos? LOL

segaBOY

SebtheBum wrote:

If you live in the UK for 5 years, you can apply for a British Passport, but there is no guarantee you'll get one.

Since 1946, we have all had dual-citizenship, thanks to Clement Attlee (go read a history book folks ) meaning that we are entitled to live and work in the UK. Of course, when we joined the EU this became nebulous cos now you could say the same for all the member-states as well, but at the time it was quite impressive.

I was born in England, but have lived here all my life and have Irish parents.
I have a right to a British Passport, but have an Irish one because it was cheaper (altho getting a British one would've been quicker - apparently where you are born is the most important thing, not your parentage)

Thanks for replying

bounty_hunter

I sincerely doubt the fact that your father was born before the declaration of the republic holds any relevance in this situation. That would only make him an Irish citizen living under British rule, not a citizen of Britain.

The only way you may be entitled to one is if you or either of your parents were born in Northern Ireland, or if you have been a resident in Northern Ireland for however many years the conditions state (I think it's 5).

segaBOY

Gilgamesh wrote:

so you are telling me , you think it is really necessary to have two IDs in this world? What are you? trying to blow up somethign and leave the country on your other ID.
Wht do you think they have Photos? LOL

I'll grow my hair long for one and shave it for the other

segaBOY

bounty_hunter wrote:

I sincerely doubt the fact that your father was born before the declaration of the republic holds any relevance in this situation. That would only make him an Irish citizen living under British rule, not a citizen of Britain.

The only way you may be entitled to one is if you or either of your parents were born in Northern Ireland, or if you have been a resident in Northern Ireland for however many years the conditions state (I think it's 5).

I believe my father could get one and then I could but he does not want to be associated as a British citizen in any way

Gilgamesh

AFAIK, if you have dual nationality within the EU, it is entered in the same Passport, YOU DON'T GET TWO OF THEM!!!

Kappar

Was this State not created by the Constitution in 1937?

segaBOY

Gilgamesh wrote:

AFAIK, if you have dual nationality within the EU, it is entered in the same Passport, YOU DON'T GET TWO OF THEM!!!

oh I thought some ppl in the north hold 2 passports???!!!

segaBOY

Kappar wrote:

Was this State not created by the Constitution in 1937?

It was a republic in all but name

Kappar

segaBOY wrote:

It was a republic in all but name

But is is still not called a Republic only "the description of the State shall be the Republic of Ireland"

A Dub in Glasgo

This will answer your question

http://www.ukps.gov.uk/_6_eligibility/6_who_is.asp

British Citizen
On 1 January 1983 people became British Citizens (BC) if they were citizens of the United Kingdom and Colonies on 31 December 1982 and had the right of abode in the United Kingdom on that date.

By birth in the United Kingdom or in a place still a British colony.
By naturalisation in the United Kingdom or a British colony.
By registration as a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies.
By legitimate descent from a father* to whom the previous conditions applied.

British Subjects

This generally applies to people who were born before 1 January 1949 and who had a connection with either British India or the Republic of Ireland (Southern Ireland).

Sarsfield

As biometric passports are becoming the norm, having 2 passports with 2 names and the same bio-details will cause you nothing but grief in airports all over the world. Don't visit America on both or you'll end up in Guantanamo Bay!

gurramok

I am in same position as SebtheBum.

I was born in England, rasied here under Irish parents plus relatives n UK with both Irish and Bitish passports hence I was entitled to either an Irish or British passport under the born rule.
I chose Irish passport not because it as cheap but I am proud to be Irish.
My family tree is a mess regarding citizenship, some took British citizenship as they felt they would never come back to Ireland in their lifetime.
If all my relatives turned up at a port of entry to USA , it would hardly be helpful to any customs officer with a mixed bag of nationalities and related by blood, it would just confuse your average yank!

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

This will answer your question

http://www.ukps.gov.uk/_6_eligibility/6_who_is.asp

I remember reading that link before on the travel/holidays board.
To clarify ADIG: Does that mean that people who hold Irish passports can get a British one if they are Irish citizens but were born here in the ROI before 1949?

Is there a difference between the rights of a British subjects passport and that of a British citizens passport?

Does the parent have to have a British subjects passport in order for their son/daughter to get one?

Lots of people I know in the North have both an Irish and British passport basically as one explained to me,the British have more consulates in the farthest reaches of the known planet than we do, so it's handy that way if you are travelling to far flung and awkward places.
Afaik, you have to hand in your Irish one when you get your British but in practice this neither happens, nor do the two passport offices communicate with each other requesting such a hand over.
It's sort of an obligation but not an enforced one.

These days however with bar coded passports and soon bio metric ones, that obligation may be increasingly enforced or at least the fact that the two are the one person formally recorded on a data base somewhere.

I do know that for the USA, your index left and right finger prints and your eyes are photographed, so I can imagine that trying to enter there on separate occassions with different passports would cause problems unless some formal mechanism has been put in place to take account of it.

Moriarty

I would think dual citizenship is too common a circumstance to create any problems for immigration/passport control when travelling.

RuggieBear

Earthman wrote:

I do know that for the USA, your index left and right finger prints and your eyes are photographed, so I can imagine that trying to enter there on separate occassions with different passports would cause problems unless some formal mechanism has been put in place to take account of it.

I've entered and exited the USA (LAX to be specific) using different passports...nothings happened to me and i've been back and forth a few times in the mean time, doing it properly.

A Dub in Glasgo

Earthman wrote:

I remember reading that link before on the travel/holidays board.
To clarify ADIG: Does that mean that people who hold Irish passports can get a British one if they are Irish citizens but were born here in the ROI before 1949?

AFAIK, yes

Is there a difference between the rights of a British subjects passport and that of a British citizens passport?

AFAIK, no

Does the parent have to have a British subjects passport in order for their son/daughter to get one?

This is where it gets tricky, it would appear that passports are not normally given to children of British subjects in Ireland (born here before 1949)

The reason I say AFAIK is the fact that the whole issue of British citizenship/subjects for ex colony countries is very confusing.

Wikipedia has a page on the subject.

Nevyn

You dont need a visa to go and work in commonwealth countires if you have
a brit passport.

RuggieBear

Thaed wrote:

You dont need a visa to go and work in commonwealth countires if you have
a brit passport.

Are you sure about that? I thought poms still needed to get those holiday work visas for oz, like us.

Victor

segaBOY wrote:

2 seperate, LEGAL identies

One birth cert.

cyclopath2001

segaBOY wrote:

What I am wondering is if I am entitled to a British Passport.

Would that not be a UKGBNI passport?

Victor

RuggieBear wrote:

I've entered and exited the USA (LAX to be specific) using different passports...nothings happened to me and i've been back and forth a few times in the mean time, doing it properly.

A friend has both Irish and American passports and would use the Irish one to get into Ireland and the American one to get into the USA. Eventually he got flagged by the Americans because one version of him was only leaving the country and the other only entering.

murphaph

Thaed wrote:

You dont need a visa to go and work in commonwealth countires if you have
a brit passport.

Sure you do. Each country in the commonwealth has it's own rules and as one poster has pointed out, Australia requires poms to get visas to work there and they have the whole points system for permanent prospective immigrants, including poms.

Guy:Incognito

Gilgamesh wrote:

AFAIK, if you have dual nationality within the EU, it is entered in the same Passport, YOU DON'T GET TWO OF THEM!!!

I have separate Irish and German passports. I have lost my German one though ,I'm sure its here somewhere. I've lost it twice in the past and had to get new ones.Im sure they are going to get suspicious if I start asking for another one

county

Gilgamesh wrote:

AFAIK, if you have dual nationality within the EU, it is entered in the same Passport, YOU DON'T GET TWO OF THEM!!!

sorry wrong!!!!i have both british and irish passports and i do have two passports,your taking nonsence

Hobbes

segaBOY wrote:

2 seperate, LEGAL identies

Except that you can legally only hold 1 passport at any given time.

Sure you can switch between both but anything happens, you get flagged and hey presto you get dragged in.

segaBOY

Hobbes wrote:

Except that you can legally only hold 1 passport at any given time.

Sure you can switch between both but anything happens, you get flagged and hey presto you get dragged in.

I was wondering sinse Colombia have an extradition treaty with the UK, if I was dragged to a Colombian court to seek revenge for the Colombia 3 would my UKGBNI passport help me get tried in a court in the UK?

RuggieBear

tbh, the only useful thing i have found about having 2 passports is the usefulness of joining smaller immigration services queues.

In ireland i just wave the irish passport and no hassle and using my Australian passport allows me skip the 2-3hr lines the aussies foist upon their visitors.

donkeyrobot

i have an american and an irish passport. could go for a hatrick and get a british one too!

segaBOY

Hmm, the law is a bit sticky

DublinWriter

bounty_hunter wrote:

I sincerely doubt the fact that your father was born before the declaration of the republic holds any relevance in this situation.

Acutally it does. Anyone born in the 26 counties, or with a parent born in the 26 counties, before 1949 is entitled to a British Passport.

The only advantage I could see in having a British Passport is for getting into a few African countries without first having to get a visa, like the Gambia, for example.

If you're trying to have two legal ids for tax evasion reasons then forget it. Your DOB and previous addresses also come into play when financial institutions establish your identity.

Also, I wouldn't like to be searched at a UK/US airport in the current climate and found in possession of two passports with 'different' names.

bang_bang_rosie

I have an Irish and British passport, I had the British first because it was cheaper than the Irish (my parents bought it). I got an Irish one myself 3 years later when going on a J1 to U.S.
I use my Irish when going abroad and my British going to u.k, generally.
I like having two for a few reasons;
1. because I always lose stuff (in the house)
2. If i lose one passport abroad I can get my other posted to me.
3. I have a choice of Embassys if something happens (not that it ever has).
4. You don't need a holiday visa to the U.S on a British passport.
5. Travelling to certain countries it's better to have one or the other.

On going to New York this year I was flying from Dublin using my British passport (no visa needed), and was asked when I was last in the U.S, which was 4 years ago. The (nasty) immigration woman was looking me up on the computer and asked did I go on a different passport before. I told her that I had travelled on my Irish passport. She then asked to see it. Lucky I had it with me!
She never mentioned a problem with me having two passports.

I do wonder if it's actually legal. But don't really care.

Dub13

bang_bang_rosie wrote:

3. I have a choice of Embassys if something happens (not that it ever has).
4. You don't need a holiday visa to the U.S on a British passport.
.

If you are a EU citizen then you can go to any EU country's embassy.

You dont need a holiday visa to enter the US with a Irish passport.

bang_bang_rosie

[You dont need a holiday visa to enter the US with a Irish passport.[/QUOTE]

Since when?

Sorry just looked it up. Think it used to be that way though.
Think it's changed now you have to have a machine readable passport or something.

Exit

As a result of the above, there is generally no special access to British citizenship for Irish citizens. The facility for those born before 1949 to reclaim British subject status does not confer British citizenship, although gives an entitlement to registration as such after 5 years in the UK.

Irish citizens seeking to become British citizens are usually required to live in the UK and become naturalised after meeting the normal residence and other requirements, unless they can claim British citizenship by descent from a UK born or naturalised parent.

Naturalisation as a British citizen is discretionary but will generally not be refused if the requirements are met.

There's more on this page - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_and_the_Republic_of_Ireland

To the original poster, you're talking about having two different identities and committing crimes in Colombia. Hope you're joking :eek:

Dub13

It was changed about 5/6 years ago....and around 90% of Irish passports are machine readable

GusherING

Dub13 wrote:

If you are a EU citizen then you can go to any EU country's embassy.

As long as there isn't an Irish embassy in the country your in, you can use another EU state's embassy.

segaBOY

DublinWriter wrote:

Acutally it does. Anyone born in the 26 counties, or with a parent born in the 26 counties, before 1949 is entitled to a British Passport.

The only advantage I could see in having a British Passport is for getting into a few African countries without first having to get a visa, like the Gambia, for example.

If you're trying to have two legal ids for tax evasion reasons then forget it. Your DOB and previous addresses also come into play when financial institutions establish your identity.

Also, I wouldn't like to be searched at a UK/US airport in the current climate and found in possession of two passports with 'different' names.

No I'm not going to use it to evade tax!

The British Embassy said since I was not the son of a father born berfor 1922 (my father is the son of a father born befor 1922 i.e my grandfather) and I asked since I me father was born before 1949 am I entitled to a passport however it has been 2 weeks now and they didn't reply to me email.

LFCFan

My wife was born in England but is now an Irish Citizen (moved back with parents when she was 4). Would I be entitled to a British Passport? I don't want one, just curious!

Given the direction that this thread has been on more or less since it started,I'm moving it to the travel board.

Our man in Havana

LFCFan wrote:

My wife was born in England but is now an Irish Citizen (moved back with parents when she was 4). Would I be entitled to a British Passport? I don't want one, just curious!

No, as you need to be living in the UK for 3 years.

Pitseleh

If any of ye don't mind I was wondering if I'd be eligible. My father was born in England but doesn't have a British passport, he's got an Irish one as he's lived here for a long time and isn't bothered about ghetting a British one. Would I be entitled however?

vector

I was born in Dublin in 1985 *around the time of most boards users I would guess) and I have an Irish passport.

My grandparent (female) was born in Dublin in 1921 and she is entitled to a "British subject" passport. She is old, but willing to apply for it if I ask.

Question is... can this "British subject"* status be transmitted to me in some way, so that I can get a "British subject" passport

* this is an actual term, there are different categories of british passports so its important to use the correct language

Our man in Havana

No is the short answer. British subject status cannot be transfered to children at all. I have looked deeply into this and that was the answer the embassy gave me.

Actually your grandparent is entitled to the full British Passport. Independance was not until 1922.

vector

007, you are right the various uk gov passport pages give a date in march 1922 as the cut-off point, so my grandparent was born in the United Kingdom proper.
she can get a "British Citizen" passport (ie the full passport)

Now, the question can I get anything out of that