Another Plane Crash

joejoem

Jesus two in a week

CARACAS, Venezuela - A passenger plane crashed in remote western Venezuela with 152 passengers aboard early Tuesday, an aviation official said. It was unclear whether anyone survived.

The West Caribbean Airways plane was headed from Panama to Martinique in the Caribbean when its pilot reported engine trouble to the Caracas airport, said Francisco Paz, president of the National Aviation Institute.

Airport authorities lost radio contact with the plane later in the area of Machiques, in the western state of Zulia, he said


Im flying twice this weekend and once next week, not a nervous flyer at all but this makes me a tad nervous

impr0v

Did you see the reports in the sunday papers about the amount of near-miss Air Traffic Control incidents in Irish airspace? Also detailed how understaffed and tired controllers at Logan Airspace cleared an Aer Lingus plane and another to take off on intersecting runways at the same time, a collision was barely avoided and the other place took off over the Aer Lingue plane, clearing it by only 50 feet!

whiskeyman

impr0v wrote:

Did you see the reports in the sunday papers about the amount of near-miss Air Traffic Control incidents in Irish airspace?

"Near-miss" - what a laughable phrase.
Cant report as "nearly crashed into" for fear of panic I guess...

Sleipnir

There are loads of air accidents that we never hear about.

Date: August 10,2005 Time: 12:43
Location: Off Talinn, Estonia
Operator: Copterline
AC Type: Sikorsky S-76C+
Reg: OH-HCI cn: 760508
Route: Talinn, Estonia - Helsinki, Finland
Aboard: 14 Fatalities: 14 Ground: 0
Details: The helicopter crashed at sea about 3 miles off the coast near the island of Naissaar, after disappeared from Tallinn ATC radar 3 minutes after take-off from Tallinn in gusty wind conditions.


Date: August 6, 2005 Time: 15:40
Location: Off Palermo, Italy
Operator: Tuninter Flight: 1153
AC Type: ATR-72-202
Reg: TS-LBB cn: 258
Route: Bari, Italy - Djerba, Tunisia
Aboard: 39 Fatalities: 16 Ground: 0
Details: The aircraft developed engine trouble while en route from Bari Italy to Djerba, Tunisia The crew contacted Palermo ATC for an emergency landing but ditched into the sea approximately 19 miles north of Palermo. The pilot reported that both engines had failed. Possible fuel starvation or contamination is suspected.


Date: July 30, 2005
Location: Near New Cush, Sudan
Operator: Private charter
AC Type: M1-172
Reg: ?
Route: Kampala, Uganda - Southern Sudan
Aboard: 14 Fatalities: 14 Ground: 0
Details: The helicopter crashed into a mountain range in southern Sudan in poor weather and visibility. Sudan's Vice President, Dr. John Garang, 60, killed, along with six staff members and seven crew members. The plane attempted to land in the New Kush region but aborted because of bad weather.

AdMMM

Sleipnir, where did you find that? Would be good to be able to check there every now and again!

steviec

It's still far safer than travelling by car. Or many other mundane activities. The world is a big place and there's lots and lots of planes out there so I wouldn't panic too much.

Peteee

impr0v wrote:

Did you see the reports in the sunday papers about the amount of near-miss Air Traffic Control incidents in Irish airspace? Also detailed how understaffed and tired controllers at Logan Airspace cleared an Aer Lingus plane and another to take off on intersecting runways at the same time, a collision was barely avoided and the other place took off over the Aer Lingue plane, clearing it by only 50 feet!

They happen all the time.

Think of all the times you need to brake suddenly in a car. If a news headline said '300 car accidents every day narrowly avoided'

Tis the same thing.

whiskeyman

airline incidences always make headlines (well, if they happen in the Western world) as its usually a large scale fatality / casualty.
It's still one of the safest ways to travel and I'd never be put off.
I'm more worried about driving on our nations dodgy roads with crazy drivers out there.

Zapho

Thats chaos theory for ya though. There hasn't been an air disaster in a while, (I can' remember when the last one was) and now suddenly there's 3. (a private plane went down in Italy somewhere, read it on BBC.com). 4 if you include the one in Canada

theCzar

I'm flying to Peru next month, so every plane crash between now and then makes it statistically less likely mine will crash.

Sarsfield

http://www.airdisaster.com/ for all your air crash info

http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/view_year.cgi?year=2005 for this years major ones

Wertz

I've noticed over the years that plane crashes always seem to occur in sets...I mean we've not had anything major like these few in quite a time (2 years?) and then we get a load at once...that one in Toronto (I know it wasn't fatal, but it was catastrophic), then one in Guinea a few days later which we didn't hear much about, then Cyprus and now this one in Venezuela.

Chances are we'll have another one or two in the next month and then safety crackdowns and nothing for a few years. Hopefully.

chillywilly

by the looks of that site id stay away from 707's, 737's and antonov's!!!

i71jskz5xu42pb

theCzar wrote:

I'm flying to Peru next month, so every plane crash between now and then makes it statistically less likely mine will crash.

I'm no mathematician but that does not sound right. If I tossed a coin 10 times and got heads each time what are the odds of getting heads on the 11th throw. I would say the odds are 50/50 but by your logic they would be minuscule. This is not to be confused with the odds of getting 11 heads in a row which is a sequence of events. (Although I'm confusing myself somewhat now.) Something to do with statistical independence I think.

Any real mathematicians out there?

If you're looking for some light in flight reading along these lines then The curious incident of the dog in the night-time is worth a look.

lostexpectation

any indication that the proliferation of budget airlines has led to more crashes?

not that those airlines stay in business long enough to get a plane in the air

Mossy Monk

it was a bit of a sight to be in Gatwick yesterday and seeing the front page of The Sun :eek: it was the first i heard of a plane crash in Greece

theCzar

PaschalNee wrote:

I'm no mathematician but that does not sound right. If I tossed a coin 10 times and got heads each time what are the odds of getting heads on the 11th throw. I would say the odds are 50/50 but by your logic they would be minuscule. This is not to be confused with the odds of getting 11 heads in a row which is a sequence of events. (Although I'm confusing myself somewhat now.) Something to do with statistical independence I think.

I wasn't being too seriosu, i was hypothesising that if on average, there's fixed x number of plane crashes a year, and if the x quota is reached before I fly, my plane will be statistically invincible, capable of flying for a million miles with no engines or wings or pilot or soggy-but-scented tissues.

I may test this theory by finding out how many people fall to their deaths each year, and then jump from my roof if/when the number's reached.

wayfarer

Im flying trans-atlantic in 5 hours!



I did not want to hear this

wayfarer

wayfarer wrote:

Im flying trans-atlantic in 5 hours!



This is not what I wanted to have read

You are many more times likely to be killed travelling to the airport than in an airplane.

How does that worry you?

whiskeyman

lostexpectation wrote:

any indication that the proliferation of budget airlines has led to more crashes?

not that those airlines stay in business long enough to get a plane in the air

they have, but only because they mean more flights and a heck of a lot more air travel = statistically more accidents.

besty

great, cant wait to fly to Larnaca airport on saturday morning!

nlgbbbblth

steviec wrote:

It's still far safer than travelling by car. Or many other mundane activities. The world is a big place and there's lots and lots of planes out there so I wouldn't panic too much.

yes, but you have a better chance of surviving a car accident than a plane crash.

train and bus are safest.

chillywilly

nlgbbbblth wrote:

yes, but you have a better chance of surviving a car accident than a plane crash.

train and bus are safest.

so when is the next bus to america then?

smoke.me.a.kipper

just had 4 flights in 2 weeks. heard about the canadian crash from the flight crew. they were talking about it as i was boarding the plane. not helpful cabin crew there ryanair!

stevoslice

a near miss in terms of planes is somethin like 200ft, nothin to get too worked up over!!!

Sleipnir

nlgbbbblth wrote:

yes, but you have a better chance of surviving a car accident than a plane crash.

train and bus are safest.

Which is safer flying or driving?

Odds of being killed on a single trip:
Airliner 52.6 million to 1
Automobile 7.6 million to 1

Sources: NTSB Accidents and Accident Rates by NTSB Classification 1995-2004
DOT Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS) 1995- 2004
Insurance Institute for Highway Safety

Cuauhtemoc

Statistics are great until you become one.

Not that it'll put me off flying mind you.

nlgbbbblth

chillywilly wrote:

so when is the next bus to america then?

There's a daily service from Limerick

08:00 12:20 17:05

miss_gonzo

Ya, kinda freaky

next to the crashes in toronto and in greece. glad i'm staying put.

supersheep

Flying in five and a half hours... Thank God I'm fatalistic and not much of a worrier... Though I did change Thankfully to Thank God, and I'm not even religious!

Bunny

Imagine an Irish ferry sinks and everyone dies.. the day after that it is statistically SAFER to travel by ferry, simply because it jolts all the inspection/safety/crew, etc if even by a very slight margin. Its like all the tourists who don´t want to go to Thailand because they think there will be another tidal wave.

i71jskz5xu42pb

hypothetical-situation wrote:

Imagine an tube bombing and a lot of people get injured or killed. Two weeks after that it is statistically SAFER to get on the tube, simply because it jolts all the security/police/public vigilance, etc if even by a very slight margin.

A bit facetious I know. That said the people getting on the flight in Venezuela would have been thinking that flights we going to be safer as a result of the earlier Greek crash.

Like I said earlier the events are largely statistically independent.