€20+€5 tonight

Einstein

Evenin'

Any1 heading to this in de Fitz tonight? Whats it normally like?

D..

DocO

The working mans version of the students free roll. should be crazy enuf until the freeze out period and if your still about then , you've as gud a chance as any.
gud luk

Drakar

Silly question, but not having played many offline events.... are the fees normally that high ie 25%? Most online events have fees of ~10%.

Culchie

It's not a silly question, there's a few lads who tried to promote and make a living out of poker by bringing it to pubs around the place etc... who were slated for similar registration fee %.

Shortstack

It seems high at first glance but it is a re-buy and the average spend is probably at least €60 so it is less than 10% of the prizepool. There are normally around 60 runners so €300 is very poor cosidering they have to pay at least 6/7 dealers for the tournament. People need to realise if they want to play a live tournament then they will have to pay a slice of the prizpool for the priviledge. There are some who take this to extremes taking 20-50% of the money for 'costs' but if you look around there are plenty of good value tournaments.

mewso

€20+€3 methinks.

Culchie

Shortstack wrote:

It seems high at first glance but it is a re-buy and the average spend is probably at least €60 so it is less than 10% of the prizepool. There are normally around 60 runners so €300 is very poor cosidering they have to pay at least 6/7 dealers for the tournament. People need to realise if they want to play a live tournament then they will have to pay a slice of the prizpool for the priviledge. There are some who take this to extremes taking 20-50% of the money for 'costs' but if you look around there are plenty of good value tournaments.

I'm not in disagreement as such with the fee being charged, I'm pointing out that when the lads who are bring poker to the masses outside of casinoland (yourself included Mike) post here, that they are given the same respect for earning a crust, as the professional casinos are. The casinos obviously have alot of other action going on as well to ensure the wolf doesn't knock on their door.

Shortstack

musician wrote:

€20+€3 methinks.

It has been €20 + €5 for a while now.

Shortstack

Culchie wrote:

I'm not in disagreement as such with the fee being charged, I'm pointing out that when the lads who are bring poker to the masses outside of casinoland (yourself included Mike) post here, that they are given the same respect for earning a crust, as the professional casinos are. The casinos obviously have alot of other action going on as well to ensure the wolf doesn't knock on their door.

I should have quoted Drakar, I know you weren't knocking it!

ollyk1

Ah lads come off it.

€5 for sandwiches, biscuits, chocolates, drinks, dealers, free magazines not to talk of the other overheads! Plus the bubble tournament costs the club around 400 a month on average I'd say (they take €20 from the tournament pot each night for the bubble placer but 7*20*4.5 = 630) The average spend is religiously €55-€60. Would you prefer they didn't charge a reg and took 25%???

Tournaments are loss leaders for the card clubs and therefore I can understand guys organising tournaments having to charge more to survive. Personally if it's advertised even if it's 99% percent I don't care because poker playing is about making good decisions and if that's sitting at home on your bankroll well that's what it's got to be. Fortunately that's not my problem, and I don't think there is any harm in people on this board pointing out better value to beginner punters.

I agree it could be done in a nicer friendlier way sometimes - but then so could some of the outright pimping that goes on. Promoters are used to getting it in the neck - if it was easy everyone would do it.

Plus if you are any good at all you don't end up spending the average so you are getting an overlay easily on a Wednesday.

Now the standard is a different thing entirely but since they removed the 3 blind structure the game has settled down and theres a fair bit of play in it.

Anyway Divers how did you do in the end??

henbane

Culchie wrote:

It's not a silly question, there's a few lads who tried to promote and make a living out of poker by bringing it to pubs around the place etc... who were slated for similar registration fee %.

Most complaints were aimed at the indeterminate nature of the rake from the prizepool. Suitedaces made the mistake of taking a skim to cover costs from one tournament and they got it in the neck. Many posters advised pokerevents in their early days that a fixed reg fee (no matter what size it was) was preferable to an unclear system where costs were covered from the prizepool on the night.

Nobody really cares whether the reg is going to casinos or outside promoters, but everyone wants a decent game which is fair to the punter. Some promoters came on here with a self-righteous attitude about bringing poker to the masses and that didn't go down to well either. If they offer value, they will get players. Simple as that.

Culchie

henbane wrote:

Most complaints were aimed at the indeterminate nature of the rake from the prizepool. Suitedaces made the mistake of taking a skim to cover costs from one tournament and they got it in the neck. Many posters advised pokerevents in their early days that a fixed reg fee (no matter what size it was) was preferable to an unclear system where costs were covered from the prizepool on the night.

Nobody really cares whether the reg is going to casinos or outside promoters, but everyone wants a decent game which is fair to the punter. Some promoters came on here with a self-righteous attitude about bringing poker to the masses and that didn't go down to well either. If they offer value, they will get players. Simple as that.

I can't be bothered looking back through the old threads, but they and others got in the neck about the registration fees as well, which is what this thread is about. (PS ... I have no connection with any of them)

Some posters come on here with a self-righteous attitude about preaching poker to the plebs that doesn't go down too well either. Simple as that.

mewso

Culchie wrote:

Some posters come on here with a self-righteous attitude about preaching poker to the plebs that doesn't go down too well either. Simple as that.

Some people take posts that appear to be preaching poker to plebs with a self-righteous attitude too seriously. We could go for a while with this "some people" malarkey.

Lafortezza

Some people think they're great just cos they're mods...

Culchie

Yes we could couldn't we, probably best people don't commence it then

mewso

*The translation of my post was DO NOT take anything Henbane posts seriously. What appears to be a serious post must be approached with even more suspicion.










*some or all of this statement may not be true.

careca

I think Henbane was spot on regarding some of the tournaments advertised here. The main problem was taking a slice of the prizepool as well as the reg fee. It should be said that although most tournies take a reg fee, not all of them provide dealers. This is why €5 is very good value.

One of the things that did annoy me (and I think culchie was talking about) was when pokerevents took a % of the prizepool, everyone said raise the reg fee and leave at that. Pokerevents duly did this and someone was on saying the reg was too big. Its either one or the other. As Waylander pointed out there are lots of good value tournaments out there, its up to you (us) to find and play in them.



by the way, congrats Muso. Even though as a past rocker (oh where did all my hair go to ?) we used to kick the **** out of the mods Meet you at the bike shed outside work !!

Lafortezza

I just can't imagine careca ever having a full head of hair...

Einstein

on another note, anybody know the results of this one last night?
I went out about 12th or 13th? Joe O'Neill had Chip lead at that stage i think...

Anyone?

Drakar

I wasn't trying to needle anyone, just curious as I haven't ventured into offline playing at all yet. I'm too used to the $15 + $1 on PokerStars, that's my problem :P Since the prize allocation for poker tables is normally a zero sum game, it just makes sense to reduce the amount of fees one pays to a minimum. I know people probably play offline poker for more social reasons than people would do online.

Would this sort of percentage carry through for larger buyins offline, so in a €200 buyin, would the fees normally be €50, or was it appearing as a high percentage just because the buyin was small?

Also am I correct in understanding that you don't pay the fee for rebuys then? I guess if the tournament was a type where people rebought alot it may appear more attractive.

I suppose I was just thinking that if you were looking to make cash though, you'd have to consider yourself to be pretty darn good to expect to be ahead if 25% of the buyin goes each time. I'm not sure mathematically how much better than other people you'd have to expect to be to make cash here, but I suppose enjoying yourself (with people you can read :P) is important too.

roryc

the fee in the fitz 250 game is 20 euro

Hitman Actual

Drakar wrote:

Would this sort of percentage carry through for larger buyins offline, so in a €200 buyin, would the fees normally be €50, or was it appearing as a high percentage just because the buyin was small?

Nah, it's just the fact that it's a rebuy, where the average spend will be higher than 20euro (as Shortstack pointed out). A 200 buy-in would probably have a reg fee of 20euro.

Shortstack

Drakar wrote:

I wasn't trying to needle anyone, just curious as I haven't ventured into offline playing at all yet. I'm too used to the $15 + $1 on PokerStars, that's my problem :P Since the prize allocation for poker tables is normally a zero sum game, it just makes sense to reduce the amount of fees one pays to a minimum. I know people probably play offline poker for more social reasons than people would do online.

Would this sort of percentage carry through for larger buyins offline, so in a €200 buyin, would the fees normally be €50, or was it appearing as a high percentage just because the buyin was small?

Also am I correct in understanding that you don't pay the fee for rebuys then? I guess if the tournament was a type where people rebought alot it may appear more attractive.

I suppose I was just thinking that if you were looking to make cash though, you'd have to consider yourself to be pretty darn good to expect to be ahead if 25% of the buyin goes each time. I'm not sure mathematically how much better than other people you'd have to expect to be to make cash here, but I suppose enjoying yourself (with people you can read :P) is important too.

There is a different edge in 'live' play as to online play. The games are vastly different (cue HJ piping in around now ). Live poker is more about people than the cards. Online poker is more ABC. In both you can have a great edge if you are a good player, it just takes different skills although that is not to say that if you play a live tournie like an online one you will not do well.

Also it depends on the tournament and venue, a lot of the cheaper tournaments are full of people who have not got a clue and although you will see some horrendous beats, normally a good solid player will come through.

As far as reg fees go you will find it difficult to match online sites as their running costs are miniscule per tournament. If you think about it the online sites are the ones ripping off the public even though they seem good value, does it really cost Pokerstars anywhere near the +$45,000 they take in rake to put on the Sunday $500,000 Gtd ?

bohsman

There is no rake on the rebuys, AFAIK Tribeca are the only ones that do this

pokertroll

bohsman wrote:

There is no rake on the rebuys, AFAIK Tribeca are the only ones that do this

The rake on rebuys is a disgrace. It explains why they don't have a lot of freezout tournaments on the network as they know they can clean up on rebuys.

mewso

Shortstack wrote:

There is a different edge in 'live' play as to online play. The games are vastly different (cue HJ piping in around now ). Live poker is more about people than the cards. Online poker is more ABC. In both you can have a great edge if you are a good player, it just takes different skills although that is not to say that if you play a live tournie like an online one you will not do well.

This is nonsense. Whoops HJ-Mode off.