Ever wanted to shoot a mountain biker ?

Johnny Jukebox

Nows your chance...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=3168833#post3168833

Sparks

That area has been a rifle range since the 1800s. And is clearly marked as such on all the O.S. maps. And will be fully signposted and fenced off before shooting begins. And is private property.
So unless you're deliberately trespassing while ignoring several warnings, you'd have nothing to worry about.

Johnny Jukebox

Sparks wrote:

That area has been a rifle range since the 1800s. And is clearly marked as such on all the O.S. maps. And will be fully signposted and fenced off before shooting begins. And is private property.
So unless you're deliberately trespassing while ignoring several warnings, you'd have nothing to worry about.

And its no longer the 1800s. The area has changed substantially since it was last used as a firing range. I grew up there, I've walked, ran and biked the place for years so I know exactly where it is and what it constitutes. There are several fireroads running along the back of the range. There is one fireroad trending right around the lower part of the range. There are numerous walking and biking trails criss-crossing between these fireroads. So you get the picture.

Do you intend that Coillte restrict access to these road and trails while shooting is in progress ? If not, how do you guarantee public safety when there are public walkways in such close proximity ? Can you cite the relevant authorities and regulations that specify such conditions ?

So its private property. But its not private enough.

Sparks

As said elsewhere on this topic, I'm neither a member of, nor a representative for, the LR&PC, I'm just pointing out some basic facts on this as an independent observer.
(Speaking of, private property is just that. There are no "degrees of privateness".

Samson

Johnny Jukebox wrote:

I grew up there, I've walked, ran and biked the place for years so I know exactly where it is and what it constitutes.

This sounds like a case of NIMBY.

Johnny Jukebox wrote:

Do you intend that Coillte restrict access to these road and trails while shooting is in progress?

As Sparks said, the range, which is private property, would be fenced off, and sign-posted before any shooting is done on the range. There would also be trained persons appointed to marshall the range whilst shooting is in progress.

Trojan

Why, when trucks are doing such a good job of getting rid of us?

Sounds to me like hunting is far more dangerous than a guy firing a rifle at a taget on a wall of rock (target ranges have *lots* of safety).

Johnny Jukebox

Samson wrote:

This sounds like a case of NIMBY.



As Sparks said, the range, which is private property, would be fenced off, and sign-posted before any shooting is done on the range. There would also be trained persons appointed to marshall the range whilst shooting is in progress.

Its not just my back yard. Its the back yard of '000s of recreational users.

I'm not arguing the issues of private property. I'm arguing that fact the since the range has fallen into disuse, the surrounding forest park has developed significantly, to the extent that it is a primary recreational facility and hence reinstating the range is untenable from a safety and environmental perspective.

Trojan

Johnny: is the range U-shaped, i.e. targets walled in on both sides like a quarry or similar, or is it open on all sides, with the targets against a wall?

Johnny Jukebox

Trojan wrote:

Johnny: is the range U-shaped, i.e. targets walled in on both sides like a quarry or similar, or is it open on all sides, with the targets against a wall?

No walls. There is a backstop which is a large earthen bank against which targets are placed. It is open on all sides.

benhurt1

Johnny Jukebox wrote:

the surrounding forest park has developed significantly, to the extent that it is a primary recreational facility and hence reinstating the range is untenable from a safety and environmental perspective.

two issues here Johnny...
1.safety- I too, have used this area regulary for the last 30yrs, but mountain bikes going downhill at the speed of light on public tracks cause me more worry than a few guys shooting targets. So do horse riders. There are too many uncontrollable factors involved for me to feel "safe" sharing the same track.
2. environmental- what do you mean? are we talking about track/mountainside erosion?

Johnny Jukebox

Fine Gael Dublin South TD Olivia Mitchell has expressed concern that the Leinster Rifle and Pistol Club (LRPC) has applied to operate a firing range at Ticknock.

“I was absolutely aghast when this was first brought to my attention by the Mountain Biking Association, which also uses the forest. When I checked the LRPC website I saw that renovation work had already begun and they were advertising for extra members to avail of their ‘new’ range.

“Ticknock Forest is a heavily used popular amenity on the edge of suburbia. It is very accessible to the thousands of families living in the area. It is used by children for picnics, for scout outings, by walkers, by pony trekkers, and by mountain bikers, and is a popular destination for local family outings.

“All of these uses are completely incompatible with a firing range. It quite simply poses an unacceptable risk to other users.

“I have contacted the local authority to alert them about the club’s plans. I have discovered that the area was used as a firing range by the army but has been abandoned for at least 50 years. Apparently the land was sold to a private owner about ten years ago.

“Clearly any change of use of the land would now require planning permission. Coillte owns the forest but does not own the area of the proposed range within it, and has told me that they would be very unhappy with such a development. If planning permission is sought Coillte would lodge an objection and I would certainly do so myself.

“When one considers the huge area which is fenced off at army rifle ranges, and the level of security enforced, it seems unlikely that a similar private facility in such a populated area would find favour with planners.

“Shooting is a perfectly legitimate sport and I hope that the club finds a safe home somewhere else, but it cannot be permitted in such a heavily used and popular amenity.”

Sparks

Just heard her on NewsTalk106 on this as well. Seriously silly season. She acknowleges that because the surrounding land is Coillte land, mountainbikers, hikers, riders and all the others who are there are actually trespassing anyway; but a range that's been there since the 1800s on privately owned land can't operate because it's too close to town?
And if she acknowleges that shooting's a perfectly legitimate sport (which it is, being the largest participatory sport in the world today), then exactly why should the shooters be the ones who have to drive the extra fifty miles to get to the middle of nowhere? Why should trespassing mountain bikers take priority over shooters operating a safe range on privately owned land?

Rew

I visited the range to check out the situation. There is no problem with safety, it will be well fenced off and indicated. I did see all the tracks from bikes and horses. So I can imagine all those people who use it will be annoyed but then again they are tresspassing.

Olivia Mitchel needs to actually do her homework she hasn't a clue what she's talking about. She has obviously never seen a military range in her life. And you Jonny have conviently ignored my comments about military ranges in the other thread.

The whole of Ticknoc forrest is still there for public use un-affected by this.

HJ Simpson

Well,

As a moutain biker who uses the are regulary I will sadly miss it. However
it is on private land as you say and if it is properly fenced in enjoy your
shooting. BTW their are an awful amount of unofficial trails crossing the area below the existing stone range it will take a lot of warning signpost and fencing to close it off properly. Good luck.
Also a few riding stables have use of the surronding area with permission
from Coilte. Might be worth notifying them so the horse dont get spooked by
the noise.

HJS

Johnny Jukebox

There is a more comprehensive and active discussion on this topic over on mtbireland.com

http://www.mtbireland.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=4455.0