Cooling Options for gaming rig?

DirkVoodoo

I know, i have been here before asking advice on PC building and choosing specs, aswell as "what happens if i stick my finger here" type rookie questions. Anyway, Ive decided on a final spec after much deliberation and threatening phone calls from my bank manager. It may or may not be considered a "budget" PC, but to me it seems like good bang-for-my-buck.

My only follow-up questions involve the little things in PC building which, to be honest, i have not the slightest clue about. Im going to list my spec below, however, i must stress that im not looking for "replace x with y", "what fool would stick x in y" or any other x-y combination you care to think of for that matter. All i need is some tips on cooling, along the lines of "some zalman fans might go well there"

I was also thinking about going down the road of water cooling, although i remember a recent post in which some chap's water cooling leaked and turned his PC into a nice 4-slice toaster. Is it worth the risk? is there even a significant risk?

So, in short, do i have sufficient cooling, and what cooling solutions could be recommended.

SPEC:
=========================================================
AMD Athlon 64 4000+ 2.4GHz Socket 939, 1MB, BOXED w/fan
Abit AN8, nForce4, Socket-939, ATX SATA,GbLAN,Firewire,DDR,Sound,PCI-Ex16
Sapphire Radeon X800XL 256MB GDDR3 PCI-Express,Tv-Out, DVI-I, Full-Retail
TwinMOS PC3200 DDR-DIMM 1024MB Dual Pack Kit w/two matched PC3200 DDR DIMMs
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 250GB SATA 8MB 7200RPM NCQ
Logitech MX510 Optical Mouse, USB, PS/2
Thermaltake Shark Black Aluminium (Without PSU)
Thermaltake Silent Purepower 680W Powersupply, 20/24pin

Total: 1404.01 (Salvaging other parts from my old dell, e.g. monitor, speakers, etc.)

Sgtshaft

Nice rig, but I would get a slower CPU the one u have chosen is close to €400 :eek: get a 3200+ and overclock it to a 4000+ and save €200 and maybe put that into a beefier graphics card.

quarryman

also i reckon the

Thermaltake Silent Purepower 680W Powersupply, 20/24pin

is overkill.

Hercule

Yeah I agree the processor is bit too much - although you might try a dual core AMDx2 3800+ which has just come out and is a bit cheaper - also my preference would be a SLI motherboard with a single 6600gt now -cheaper then buying a high-end ATI - in a few months time when u need an extra graphics boost u could try putting anothe 6600gt in and linking them - According to most tests two 6600gt's in SLI are More powerful then ATI x850xl Platinums or 6800gts and SLI support is (hopefully) going to be the standard for the best next-gen games.

In my PC im building I have one of these http://www.giga-byte.com/VGA/Products/Products_GV-3D1.htm
which I think should keep me covered for a long time and is better value imho

(if ure a good overclocker its obvious you should stick with a single gpu like what u have or a Nvidia option like a 7800gtx :eek: )

Malafus

Hercule wrote:

Yeah I agree the processor is bit too much - although you might try a dual core AMDx2 3800+ which has just come out and is a bit cheaper - also my preference would be a SLI motherboard with a single 6600gt now -cheaper then buying a high-end ATI - in a few months time when u need an extra graphics boost u could try putting anothe 6600gt in and linking them - According to most tests two 6600gt's in SLI are More powerful then ATI x850xl Platinums or 6800gts and SLI support is (hopefully) going to be the standard for the best next-gen games.

No.... just no. 2 6600GTs are NOT as good as one 6800gt or x850XL. Benchmarking proves this, time and again. CBA posting links.
Dual Cores are NOT useful, at all, unless you want to do lots of CPU intensive things at once and since this is a gaming PC..... Multi-threaded apps are not widespread enough to warrant dual-cores.

Besides, the OP specifically stated he just wants cooling advice.

Here it is: You should have sufficient cooling, considering the Shark comes with 2x120mm fans. Unless you plan on doing some eXtreme overclocking (Yes, extreme with a capital X).

The only thing you might need to consider is getting a Zalman Northbridge cooler... AFAIK most of the Abit (and most other, TBPH) mobos have very noisy chipset fans. The AN8 Ultra has a heatpipe/heatsink thing though, so that one would be ok.

You might want a VGA cooler later on, but it's not necessary. Also when/if you get sick of the whine of your CPU fan, consider getting something like this.

Watercooling is useful in only two situations, 1) You want to overclock to a VERY high degree, or 2) You are sick and tired of fan noise.
I wouldn't recommend. Teh leakage will pwn your PC, if it happens.

DirkVoodoo

Thanks for the advice, and more importantly for steering the post back on topic. However some of the other advice was much appreciated and as always, im learning bit by bit

Im thinking of slapping a Zalman 7700 Al/Cu fan on top of the CPU. Only problem is ive been reading about the procedure and it seems the removal of the stock heatsink might cause some headaches for a troglodite like myself.

Can i buy an AMD on JES or Komplett without the stock fan? All that paste removal reminds me of scrubbing pots and pans...

Malafus

The only way to get a CPU without the fan is to buy OEM.

But the CPU doesn't come with the HSF attached. No problems there then.
All you gotta do is slop some thermal goop on, stick the Zalman on there, voila. Job done.

Re: Thermal paste - basically it's put a rice sized grain on the CPU die, then clip the HSF onto it, giving it a little wiggle from side to side as you go. It's really a case of learn by doing, and you can't really go wrong. You could also spread the goop with a credit card - my preferred method - but there's no real difference. The important thing is to do the whole job in one go. Once you put the HSF down, don't lift it back up, or else you'll need to clean it and go again.
Paste removal is just a case of putting a drop of meths onto a lint-free cloth, and wiping gently.

Edit: /me recalls seeing some CPUs with a thermal pad applied to them , rather than the HSF (which would be more usual). If that's the case then you can either leave the pad on, and use that in conjunction with the Zalman, or you can remove it and use Arctic Silver or whatever brand of goop you prefer. I'd use the goop myself, but there will be no huge difference.

Patricide

My only advise would be to def get a nvidia card instead of radeon saphire, something like a 6600 or 6800 would do nicely

Stephen

Why? He's already said he's settled on the components.

One of the best things about socket 939 boards and AMD stock coolers (for system builders anyway) is the system they have for clamping the heatsink down. On older socket A boards this was a bitch of a job to do right without damaging anything (ohh the time spent with a flat head screwdriver trying to get that little clip to hook onto the notch on the CPU socket...). The AMD stock coolers have a plastic handle gizmo that makes it very easy indeed, once you have the CPU in socket and the heatsink seated on top of it. Dunno if the same applies to non-AMD socket 939 coolers.

Speaking of which, the AMD cooler itself isn't half bad. I'm using one with a 3200+ Venice core and the same motherboard that you're getting, and my system idles around 32 degrees. Admittedly, I'm not overclocking it. The only other fans in the system are the northbridge fan (probably making a lot of the noise), the two little 40mm OTES fans integrated onto the Abit board and a 120mm exhaust fan at the back of my case.
Also, I have Cool 'n Quiet enabled, which is brilliant - really cuts the noise from the CPU fan when the system is not under load.

po0k

Malafus wrote:

Re: Thermal paste - basically it's put a rice sized grain on the CPU die, then clip the HSF onto it, giving it a little wiggle from side to side as you go. It's really a case of learn by doing, and you can't really go wrong. You could also spread the goop with a credit card - my preferred method - but there's no real difference. The important thing is to do the whole job in one go. Once you put the HSF down, don't lift it back up, or else you'll need to clean it and go again.
Paste removal is just a case of putting a drop of meths onto a lint-free cloth, and wiping gently.

http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm

Apply bit of AS5 to bottom of heatsink, rub in with a *clean* latex glove or a j-cloth, the metal should discolour a bit. Wipe off excess.
Place a blob of AS5 in the centre of the cpu die slug/heatspreader (as you said Malafus, about the size of a grain of rice or a lentil).
Apply the heatsink to the cpu, secure it with the supplied clips/screws. DO NOT LIFT UP THE HEATSINK TO LOOK AT HOW THE PASTE SPREAD.
Wiggle the heatsink clockwise and counterclock-wise a little bit to help work the paste in.

Now you burn in the machine, when possible leave it running Prime95 and SuperPi etc. for a few hours to heat up the paste, then shut it down for an hour or so to let the paste cool and set.
Repeat this for about a week and by the end of it the paste should be nicely cured and the machine is safe enough to leave on 24/7.

po0k

Patricide wrote:

My only advise would be to def get a nvidia card instead of radeon saphire, something like a 6600 or 6800 would do nicely

What are you basing this on?
Price? Performance (in Game "X")? SM3.0?

Hercule

No.... just no. 2 6600GTs are NOT as good as one 6800gt or x850XL. Benchmarking proves this, time and again. CBA posting links.
Dual Cores are NOT useful, at all, unless you want to do lots of CPU intensive things at once and since this is a gaming PC..... Multi-threaded apps are not widespread enough to warrant dual-cores.

1. Actually two 6600gt's DO provide better benchmarking results
(usually 5-10 fps more except for unsupported games which only really count a single GPU) then 6800gts and x850xls on SLI supported games - basically every good game from the last year. and are a LOT more affordable.

2. The Dual-Core thing was simply a suggestion - multi-threaded games are already in development.

3. What i said was with reference to the posts under the op and not the op its self. Also the op was a bit different when I read it (before it was edited)

4. Sorry for going off topic again. but i cant stand it when people pounce on others in forums simply for making honest suggestions

Malafus

Stephen - Ah yes, attaching those Socket A HSFs.... Many's the time I thought I'd just borked my mobo from the screwdriver merrily bouncing along it.

SyxPak - Forgot to mention the burn-in process... I usually just run two 2 hour sessions (not consecutively), and leave it at that.... never had a problem.

Hercule - Ok, fair enough, the dual-core was a perfectly ok suggestion, but...

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041123/sli-performance-11.html

This is 2 6800gts and 6800Ultras in SLI(I couldn't find the article I'd previously read on a different site which had 2 6600GTs Vs an X850PE and a 6800Ultra), but still. They perform worse than a single 6800 in UT2004, which is odd. They only really come into their own at 1600x1200 @ 32bit with full AA and AF. And quite frankly, he'd be better off buying one 6800, and then adding another later, or else possibly upgrading his mobo, and going Crossfire with the GFX card he has already picked.
AFAIK Crossfire mobos are out at the end of the month, and IMHO it's looking more impressive than SLI. 'Cept for the stupid external connectors :rolleyes:

DirkVoodoo

Stephen wrote:

Speaking of which, the AMD cooler itself isn't half bad. I'm using one with a 3200+ Venice core and the same motherboard that you're getting, and my system idles around 32 degrees. Admittedly, I'm not overclocking it. The only other fans in the system are the northbridge fan (probably making a lot of the noise), the two little 40mm OTES fans integrated onto the Abit board and a 120mm exhaust fan at the back of my case.
Also, I have Cool 'n Quiet enabled, which is brilliant - really cuts the noise from the CPU fan when the system is not under load.

Thanks for the info stephen. Just one small question: what is quiet and cool? Is it part of the BIOS or is it a stand-alone utility from somewhere on the internet?

Malafus

"Cool and Quiet" is a function of the CPU, actually, but it needs to be combined with a compatible mobo. Most mobos are, so you should be ok.

Edit: Oh, and it's accessed through the BIOS.

Stephen

You can enable/disable it in the bios, but you will need to install drivers from AMD's website in Windows before it will work properly. To get it to work I had to install the AMD Athlon 64 drivers AND the AMD power management utility. For some reason, on default power management settings, it does not engage cool 'n quiet at all, so you have to set it to "minimal power management" and it'll work fine.
They have a handy demo app that shows what it is doing - CPU load, current CPU speed and core voltage etc. It reacts very fast to any heavy load on the CPU, kicking it up to full speed straight away.

christophicus

Malafus wrote:

Stephen - Ah yes, attaching those Socket A HSFs.... Many's the time I thought I'd just borked my mobo from the screwdriver merrily bouncing along it.

SyxPak - Forgot to mention the burn-in process... I usually just run two 2 hour sessions (not consecutively), and leave it at that.... never had a problem.

Hercule - Ok, fair enough, the dual-core was a perfectly ok suggestion, but...

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041123/sli-performance-11.html

This is 2 6800gts and 6800Ultras in SLI(I couldn't find the article I'd previously read on a different site which had 2 6600GTs Vs an X850PE and a 6800Ultra), but still. They perform worse than a single 6800 in UT2004, which is odd. They only really come into their own at 1600x1200 @ 32bit with full AA and AF. And quite frankly, he'd be better off buying one 6800, and then adding another later, or else possibly upgrading his mobo, and going Crossfire with the GFX card he has already picked.
AFAIK Crossfire mobos are out at the end of the month, and IMHO it's looking more impressive than SLI. 'Cept for the stupid external connectors :rolleyes:

The reason that UT 2004 does not improve is because games have to be built to take seriouse advantage of SLI.I am hugely interested in CROSSFIRE does anyone know of any indepth REwiews ,previewson any sites in mags.I have heard very little about it of late.

Patricide

SyxPak wrote:

What are you basing this on?
Price? Performance (in Game "X")? SM3.0?

im basing it on the way that in my opinion that nvidia cards are superior cause in most games ive played nvida comes up with nicer results looking wise(exept in far cry), dunno bout pricewise or other stuff just givin my opinion from experiance.