Irish Athletes 1980's Vs Current Team

MartinNutty

If the Irish Track and Field team in the 80s were to compete against the current team, who would win??

I've got a feeling that team made up of 80s athletes would win. There's no doubt that the sprints have improved dramatically. Everything else seems to have gone backwards. Pretty interesting considering the increased prosperity of the country.

Martin

Common Sense

Hi Martin. I've no doubt the 80s team with Coghlan, Tracey, Marcus O'Sullivan, Flynn etc would win events from 800 upwards in the Men's events. But, I think, today's men's sprinters and women (sprint and mid-distance would be too strong. An interesting question tho' - which side would Terry McHugh qualify to represent?

MartinNutty

I think the throwing team would be stronger from the 80's and that the jumps would be weeker, looks like a tie..... pretty sad when other athletics powers haved moved on from the era of shamamateurism.

And what's Ireland's excuse for dismal progress, the country certainly has not got poorer? Seems like an organizational problem. It'll be interesting to watch how the AAI evolve. I see an add for new positions on their site today. What say you, a sign for hope?

Martin

Common Sense

MartinI know, living in the US, you will not have had a chance to see today's article in the Sunday Tribune (not on the net) on Eileen O'Keeffe (our 69m hammer thrower) who is going to next week's World's. It had to be one of the most disheartening articles I've ever read about Irish athletics. She is self-thought, buying books and making videos of throwers from World champs, olympics etc. Then she slows down the video and by freeze framing hopes to work out the techniques of the throwers. She's done a great job to such an extent that she knows more than any of our hammer coaches. What really got me livid is the meagre support she is receiving from the Government/Sport Council and, in fact, only got a grant this year following an appeal. Her father and brother made a throwing circle for her on their farm. She can't practice throwing from a cage as she's not allowed to use Santry or Kilkenny - in case the hammer destroys the in-field for football. I think this article answers the questions you raised in your last post.

thirtyfoot

In a straight head to head, the men of the 00's would easily beat the 80's team. All sprints, most jumps and all the middle distance/long distance events have been eclipsed (except 1500 & 3000sc) in recent years. Throws would be about 50/50, but overall the 00's would win. As for the women, no contest whatsover, maybe Michelle Carroll would make the current team, and even still there would be 3 or 4 young ones clipping at her heels.

Irish athletics is moving in the right direction towards the technical events and away from the african dominated distance running. Follow Swedens example, might be hard for the nostalgic misty eyed distance running fans, but sprints, jumps and throws are the way forward.

LegacyUser

I would think the current team would win everything but the 1500m, 3000SC, TJ, SP, HT, PV and the current team would do be so far ahead in the relays they would win with ease. That is in a team event, so all the 1500-10000 depth would not count.

LegacyUser

As a member of the late 80's sprints team and still an interested party I think the relays would be more interesting than just a clean sweep for the current crop who obviousily have faster times.

Pherekydes

Tingle wrote:

Irish athletics is moving in the right direction towards the technical events ...

Irish Athletics is not moving in any direction. It is waddling around in ever-decreasing circles. The athletes are doing their best, but the powers that be are not interested.


Can anyone tell me how many throwing sessions our WC Hammer representative has had in a stadium in a cage?

No, Stadia infields are for Soccer, not for Athletics. If this is moving in the right direction, then please disabuse me. This isn't a recent phenomenon. Paddy McGrath and Roman Linscheid, two guys who represented us at Majors quite recently were unable to train at our "National Athletics Arena" most of the time.

And how many of our WC reps are funded? And people bemoan the fact that Kenyans move to the Gulf? Maybe Eileen will get an offer from Qatar...

Common Sense

I couldn't agree more with you, Slow Coach. We are now, I think, at our lowest ebb ever --- and I'm not talking about our athletes performances here. They're doing the very best they can in the circumstances, so are the AAI, a voluntary organisation. The real issues I have are with those in authority, the Government, The Sports Council and the local authorities. The Eileen O Keeffe scandal (yes, scandal) has been already well aired in the national press - but its worth repeating; she can't train for the Hammer by throwing from a cage in our national athletics stadium because the local authority involved (I'm not actually sure whether its Fingal or Dublin Corporation won't let her throw there. 5 years ago (at least) the present Government with out great sports loving Taoiseach at the helm, promised us an indoor facility in Santry. Not a trace of it nor will there be. The only indoor facility in the country is Nenagh, much derided, but only there and available thanks to the good work of the Nenagh AC. The Taoiseach's grand idea for a National Sports stadium was going to facilitate just about every sport .... except athletics. There was no plan for a track!!! As for the Sports Council, they should resign, they don't know how to run sport in this country. It would be very worthwhile to read Robert Denmead's letter and Colin Costello's interview in the present edition of Irish Runner. An athlete of Costello's ability is being forced to go to America and be, more or less, lost to domestic competition for the next 4 years, due purely to financial reasons. What effect will this lack of competition have on the likes of Danny Darcy, Mark Christie etc. Come on, 4,600 Euro a year for a 19 year old to live on - get real!!!. I wonder, what 19 years old Alyson Felix got to bring her to her present position as World 200m champion at Colin's age.!! Then look at nations such as Sweden - producing world class heptathletes, jumpers, hurdlers and runners. So unless the attitude changes at official level (I mean Government, Local Authority and Sports Council) towards athletics our position will only get worse.

Pherekydes

On a related point, is anyone here watching the WC on RTE?

Didn't think so.

I wonder if our soccer team doesn't qualify for Germany 2006, or is perceived not to have a good chance, will RTE not bother covering it?

Answers on a postage stamp to RTE sports dept.

Common Sense

Good point. To think of the hours and hours of Formula 1 they show. All Sunday afternoon and then a repeat at night. No offence to F1 fans, but I do think we are more of an athletic country than a F1 country.

MartinNutty

CommonSense,

I opened the thread a little tongue in cheek to make the point that Irish Athletics has fallen way behind. While other nations have been moving forward, I believe that Irish athletes from the 80s would be quite competitive on the national scene - the improvement over the last 20 years has been glacial. On the world scene this is not the case - running in place is a failure.

So what has happened in the last 20 years?

1. World Athletics has Become Professional, Ireland Athletics has not
2. The Irish ecomony has expanded dramatically, BLE & AAI have failed to leverage a new fiscal reality to be a significant presence on the World stage.

On the Eileen O'Keefe front, I watched her throw in the qualifying, the cage was intimidating to say the least - would have scared the %$#& out of me. Along with the wet conditions, there is no surprise that she failed to advance. With a little more international experience I expect she will do Ireland proud in the future. There's something very sad about the fact that Ireland doesn't have a hammer throwing facility of International class given the long Irish history in the event.

On the athlete funding front for Colin Costello and Eileen, the cost of living has changed dramatically in Ireland, funding should reflect that reality - 4k is a joke. Why is the AAI waiting around for government handouts? I expect sponsorship could be secured from corporate kittys for these talented future stars.

There is a business opportunity here for an enterprising individual in representing emerging Irish athletes. Somebody that is willing to pound the pavement, bang on doors and rustle up the requisite cash - any takers??

Common Sense

Martin

I agree with everything you say. But I'm not talking only about funding for individual athletes, such as Colin Costello. Maybe, sponsorship could be acquired for the Colin Costellos, Eileen O'Keeffes & Danny Darcys of the world - but, and this is a big but, in my opinion we chronically need decent facilities for our athletes to train in. I still fairly p**sed off about the Government's neglect of athletic facilities in this country. Not only is there not a decent training facilities for hammer throwers, but Ireland at present doesn't possess a decent indoor arena. No disrespect to Nenagh, for whom I have the highest regard for what they've achieved. If you travel through Britain or the US (I'm not familiar with other countries) you'll see facilities far superior to what we have in Ireland in tiny villages.

Without the Government and the Sports Council getting their act together, our present chronic situation will get much worse. The AAI are in the process of appointing a CEO and a Financial Officer - so this gives me some hope.

MartinNutty

Hi CommonSense,

Agreed facilities are a significant problem in Ireland. I just question expecting government to be the savior. Do you really think that should be the roll of government? Seems like there are bigger fish to fry in Ireland from a funding point of view - poor medical and school systems.

To my knowledge, the US national government doesn't fund athletics, yet the job gets done. I expect the US suceeds because of the athletic scholarship pipeline and the track facilities found in 3rd level institutions.

Beyond the realm of 3rd level institutions, in New York for example, athletic organizations have tapped into private financing to rehabilitate Randalls Island stadium and the Armory (indoor facility) I know Randall's Island stadium was financed with a combination of NYC government money and private wealth - namely Carl Ichan - well known corporate raider. My sense is that there is plenty of new private wealth being generated in Ireland - but organization is required to tap it.

Koroibos

I think there are a few companies helping young athletes and a few colleges give busaries, so I don't think it is just 4,600 Euro that is out there for them. Has the increase in funding helped in the UK? I am not saying athletes should get less money but there are far larger problems facing athletics in Ireland. Competition often cited as a problem, I don't think it is so much of a problem any more, I don't know of any young Irish athlete that would win every BMC GP race they entered and no sprinter is on par with the top UK sprinters. So good races are only a short step away, alot nearer than athletes would have to travel for races in the US. The standard of competition in the NCAA is often cited as a reason why people should go stateside. The NCAA finals are a really good standard but that is one meet a year (regionals another) the rest is a standard far below. The cost of accommadation in Dublin is too high, I can see that as a barrier. To get any training group togather there are only two or three places in Ireland this is possible. Accommadation needs to be provided, this may be where colleges can come in. We don't have a indoor track, that is just a smoke screen to why people are not performing. 90% of training an indoor track is used for can be done on an 90m straight like Santry or Limerick, more of them should be built first before we get a vanity project for Irish athletics built. Why can a cage be built in a school (I am sure a few are there already), no school in the summer. Do you need to throw in a emply stadium? It would be nice but a lot more people go to watch football, I can understand why they want to use the stadium they own of matches. There was more places to throw in the 80's but many were sourced by throwers themselves. Coaching and infrustructure is what is missing more than smoke screens of Facilities and funding. 95% of resources needed to train are already there.